Risk vs reward on the vaccine

[deadbear]

The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm

Conclusions
The present assessment raises the question whether it would be necessary to rethink policies and use COVID-19 vaccines more sparingly and with some discretion only in those that are willing to accept the risk because they feel more at risk from the true infection than the mock infection. Perhaps it might be necessary to dampen the enthusiasm by sober facts? In our view, the EMA and national authorities should instigate a safety review into the safety database of COVID-19 vaccines and governments should carefully consider their policies in light of these data. Ideally, independent scientists should carry out thorough case reviews of the very severe cases, so that there can be evidence-based recommendations on who is likely to benefit from a SARS-CoV2 vaccination and who is in danger of suffering from side effects. Currently, our estimates show that we have to accept four fatal and 16 serious side effects per 100,000 vaccinations in order to save the lives of 2–11 individuals per 100,000 vaccinations, placing risks and benefits on the same order of magnitude.

Interesting paper that might be useful if you are still looking at what is the risk vs reward.

[photofly]

The NNTV figure looks very high - and I see I’m not the only person to think that, according to the paper.

I’m interested where the figure comes from; it may be accurate for a population in lockdown, but that’s not sustainable. Without all the social distancing measures, and in a society in which we all want to live, the supposition is that the majority of the population would become infected eventually, and the NNTV figure would be closer to 1. That makes the vaccine a much better reward.

[CpnCrunch]

From the Dutch Corona notifications site:

"Important! Read this explanation first
A reported side effect may not always be due to the vaccine"

If you underrstand anything about science you know that you need an RCT to find out the true side-effects and deaths from the vaccine. What did those RCTs show, deadbear? Did they show 4.1 deaths per 100,000 doses? I think not.

You created this account simply to post bullshit antivax nonsense because you have no idea about science, or you don't care, or you're some russian troll.

Any idea why the russians would want to post antivax crap on avcanada? Or do these people just know nothing about science? That's the only bit I haven't figured out yet. My neighbour (who is fully vaccinated) tells me that her sister (who must be in her 70s) won't get vaccinated because Bill Gates has put microchips into the vaccines. Have these people never used Windows? And if the government wanted to track you, they can do that much more easily using your phone.

[xTally]

You created this account simply to post bullshit antivax nonsense because you have no idea about science, or you don't care, or you're some russian troll.

Wow dude. Just wow. So you won't engage the points with data or logic. Instead you just want to smear and gaslight people calling them anti-vax or russian trolls. WTF man. Don't you realize that that all you're doing is trying to suppress free speech and honest discussion???

A single RCT that you quote is not dogma. Trials can and have been rigged - conflicts of interest are so rampant in medicine and pharma that one has to be a little careful with anything you hear from mainstream sources. If you want the best quality of evidence you would need a meta analysis of many RCTs. And the more RCTs we have your conclusion may be shown to be incorrect.

In order to have a constructive discussion we need to think about these things. Vaccines are not some magical pill that automatically solve everything. They are highly nuanced and conditional. This is why serious academics are having scientific debates behind the scenes as to both the safety and efficacy of this vaccine.

There is enough data in both the USA's VAERS and UK's yellowcard systems to indicate that these vaccines can cause harm to people. That isn't to say that the rate is out of control...(we don't really know - especially the long term effects) but there is a signal and we as a society would be wise to pay attention. After all, traditionally the VAERS and yellowcard data is underreported so there could be many more occurrences.

There is also the testimony of Dr. Robert Malone - the inventor of the mRNA vaccine. He states due to his insider contacts with colleagues in the FDA and the CDC that normal procedures for testing vaccines skipped or were not completed in direct contradiction to governments' claims that no procedures would be skipped, only sped up due to the increase in funding.

There is Dr. Pierre Kory who has been a pioneer in COVID treatment in the hospital. He shows how a very effective and cheap repurposed drug has been suppressed in the mainstream media and its implications on use of the vaccines.

There is Dr. Bryam Bridle who has obtained the biodistribution data on the Pfizer vaccine. It shows that the vaccine does not stay in the local intramuscular area where it was injected. This is directly in conflict with Pfizer's claims and the health effects are unknown as they have not been studied.

There is also the case of the 1979 swine flu vaccine in the USA. Where just 25 deaths was enough to stop the trial.

We now stand at nearly 6000 deaths reported in proximity to the vaccine by the USA VAERS data. In the past 70 years vaccine history - about 5 billion doses according to Dr. Peter McCullough - there has never been as much reported death as today.

It is well known that the flu vaccine kills less than 1 person per million doses. Now I'll give you that not all these deaths may be contributable to the vaccine. But if you are assuming that some of them cannot be pinned on the vaccine you are living in a propagandistic dream world.

Even if 10 percent can be attributed to the vaccines, this is likely enough during normal times to have them withdrawn. And this is without factoring in all the other serious adverse events. The weight of the evidence shows there IS a signal.

The original poster is correct that we need to weigh the harms vs the benefits of any intervention - that is a primary pillar of medicine and public health and something that according to many academics and experts, has never been done during this entire coronavirus pandemic by those in power.

[dialdriver]

Vaccine prevents nearly all US deaths.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/us-covid-
19-deaths-unvaccinated-1.6078680

[CpnCrunch]

Wow dude. Just wow. So you won't engage the points with data or logic. Instead you just want to smear and gaslight people calling them anti-vax or russian trolls. WTF man. Don't you realize that that all you're doing is trying to suppress free speech and honest discussion???

Logic and science is fine, but what these posters are doing is posting non-science and non-logic. If you have some science and logic to discuss, let's have at it!

A single RCT that you quote is not dogma. Trials can and have been rigged - conflicts of interest are so rampant in medicine and pharma that one has to be a little careful with anything you hear from mainstream sources. If you want the best quality of evidence you would need a meta analysis of many RCTs. And the more RCTs we have your conclusion may be shown to be incorrect.

Well if you look at my post I didn't actually quote any particular RCT. There are RCTs from the vaccine manufacturers, and also real-world data from using the vaccines. You can't use VAERS on it's own. Correlation is not causation...that's how we got into the whole MMR autism mess.

This is why serious academics are having scientific debates behind the scenes as to both the safety and efficacy of this vaccine.

Indeed, but that's not the discussion happening on avcanada, hence my exasperated comment.

There is enough data in both the USA's VAERS and UK's yellowcard systems to indicate that these vaccines can cause harm to people.

No. If you look at any RCT you'll see a large number of adverse effects. Take the flu vaccine for example: off the top of my head there are something like 8% systemic side-effects (diarrhea, fatigue, etc) reported for the placebo arm and similar for the live vaccine arm. So clearly none of those are due to the vaccine if the placebo arm has the same number. Looking at VAERs reports on its own doesn't tell you anything.

There is Dr. Pierre Kory who has been a pioneer in COVID treatment in the hospital. He shows how a very effective and cheap repurposed drug has been suppressed in the mainstream media and its implications on use of the vaccines.

Not really. Have you looked on google scholar at the actual studies? If not, don't waste our time with blogs and ridiculous youtube videos.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

There is also the testimony of Dr. Robert Malone - the inventor of the mRNA vaccine.

You think the mRNA vaccine was invented by one man?

Wow dude. Just wow.