Planning a Flight down to Florida
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Powerplante
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Planning a Flight down to Florida
I am in the process of planning a trip down to the Florida Keys and was hoping to find out if anyone had any information or tips of completing such an endevour. Thus far, we would be departing from the Greater Toronto Area and heading south from there. I would like to find out which route is mostly prefered for this type of flight, airports and stop overs of preference, landing fees, custom agencies to avoid, average flight times and fuel stops, and any other pertinent information. This flight will probably be done in a 172 and then quite possibly again in a Seneca, with most of the flight either at night or filed IFR. Any help would certainly be appreciated and thanks ahead of time.
I flew to Florida in a C172 VFR last year...Had an amazing time to! I lucked out and got there in one day. Took me 12 hrs total for the day, 9.5 airtime. I had 2 stops before making it into Kissimee, just outside Disney World. I recommend stopping in Buffalo to clear customs before doing your long journey down there, just incase something goes wrong with em you can easily get a ride home!! I was based outta St.Catharines/Niagara District! Definately go IFR if ya can! PM if ya want more information or advice.
Why Fly Right Side Up, When You Can Fly Upside Down
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flyincanuck
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I did it a couple of years ago, but in a Seminole. Cleared customs at Buffalo. Customs couldn't have been nicer or easier there. Just a tip though: do NOT get out of the plane until the customs officer comes up to you. They really don't like that, but if you've called ahead they will be expecting you, and you won't have to wait long. Topped off the tanks there, and stopped for fuel at Columbia S.C. Very nice FBO there, Signature I think. Gas was expensive at the time, but nothing like now. The trip south from Buffalo was, well, turbulent. We had winds of something like 45 KTS at 8000 ft. I didn't realize how mountainous it is there, and the mountains continue into North Carolina. Three hours plus of moderate turbulence is really tiring. It took something like 4.5 hours to get down to Columbia. I planned airways but got cleared direct just out of Buffalo, having filed IFR. GPS is handy on a trip like that. Out of Columbia, it was airways to Lakeland Florida, arriving around 10PM. Total time in the air was something over 9 hours.
Getting out of Lakeland during Sun n Fun was a bit of an adventure, even when leaving at off peak times. We stopped again at Columbia for gas, then filed for Manassas, Va. because of a nasty front that I didn't want to fly through. Got stuck in Manassas for a day. Flying into the Washington ADIZ wasn't a big deal since we were IFR and ATC just vectored us where we needed to go. No worries about TFRs and such. However, on leaving Manassas, we were a little slow turning on course, and at that time Dubya was at Camp David. Made ATC a bit nervous, I guess, since they called several times to confirm our heading. *shrug*
Coming back into Canada we landed at Hamilton for customs. No hassles there either, except for a rookie customs inspector who wanted to remove all the interior panels of the aircraft. Thankfully her partner was a bit more reasonable and just let us go. After that, it was VFR back into Waterloo.
Total time on the aircraft was about 19 hours altogether. Ground speeds varied from 105 kts to 165 kts during the trip. Ya it was a bit windy.
Hope this helps.
Getting out of Lakeland during Sun n Fun was a bit of an adventure, even when leaving at off peak times. We stopped again at Columbia for gas, then filed for Manassas, Va. because of a nasty front that I didn't want to fly through. Got stuck in Manassas for a day. Flying into the Washington ADIZ wasn't a big deal since we were IFR and ATC just vectored us where we needed to go. No worries about TFRs and such. However, on leaving Manassas, we were a little slow turning on course, and at that time Dubya was at Camp David. Made ATC a bit nervous, I guess, since they called several times to confirm our heading. *shrug*
Coming back into Canada we landed at Hamilton for customs. No hassles there either, except for a rookie customs inspector who wanted to remove all the interior panels of the aircraft. Thankfully her partner was a bit more reasonable and just let us go. After that, it was VFR back into Waterloo.
Total time on the aircraft was about 19 hours altogether. Ground speeds varied from 105 kts to 165 kts during the trip. Ya it was a bit windy.
Hope this helps.
I did the flight a couple years back from the YYZ area. We took a C172 and cleared customs in Sandusky Ohio, everything went great. 2 more stops and then landed in Daytona Beach. Next Day flew to Miami then onto Key West. Make sure you have plenty of Gas from Miami to Key West because there is a lot of military Traffic around there and we lost our Transponder, they wanted us to turn back but we were lucky and they let us land. Also, make sure you do the Miami-keywest leg during the day as there is just a couple hundred miles of bridge to land on it can be scary at times VFR......Great trip would do it agian...hope this helps oh ya and watch the MOA's, plan carefully. 
You are not a real pilot untill you've been laidoff!!!
I've flown single and multi-engine bugsmashers to and from Florida from Ontario many times. If you're going to the Keys, be sure to go for a Pitts ride with Freddy!
Anyways, heading south, you've got to look at the weather, and decide if you're going to go south on the east side or the west side of the appalachains. Unless you've got pressurization and lots of range, you probably won't be able to simply ignore the hills.
For me, in Eastern Ontario, going south on the east side is shorter. So, I clear US customs as soon as possible, so that if I have to divert it's no big deal. Then down past Syracuse, Wilkes-Barre, skirt the southwestern edge of the Philly TCA, and down the peninsula to Salisbur, MD. This handily avoids the Washington ADIZ. Follow the bridge to Norfolk, the down through north and south carolina, georgia, and florida.
Not being the sharpest tool in the shed, I like to keep the navigation simple in case the GPS craps out - follow the shoreline works most of the time. Blue on the left, green on the right. I can handle that.
In the USA, FBO's are very well equipped - they will all have PC's to let you look at the weather. FSS is 1-800-WXBRIEF in the USA for information about TFR's. Be sure and check ahead for 100LL prices, you can save a LOT by landing at the right airports. THere are a LOT more airports in the USA - it's wonderful.
In the USA, flight following is the norm for VFR, traffic load permitting for ATC. Departing a towered airport, they will often get you a squawk code without even asking, and off you go. Very little difference from IFR, actually.
Oh, the west side of the hills. Done that lots of time, as I said I think it's longer, but wx may push you there. No big deal either way, just be sure to get a whack of current sectionals - they're legally required in the USA.
There is no CFS, what I use is the AOPA flight directory. It has the numbers for US Customs for each airport, and that alone is worthwhile.
btw, you can legally fly through MOAs in the USA - they are NOT prohibited (like around Camp David, or the White House) or TFRs. Just ask FSS if they're "hot" or not, and off you go.
Coming back to Canada, it's 1-888-CANPASS. Be sure to file a flight plan in both directions, and get a squawk code from the appropriate USA ATC before you cross the border.
Hope this helps. I'm sure some left wing idiot will crap all over me for it, but hey, it's what I've learned over the years.
Anyways, heading south, you've got to look at the weather, and decide if you're going to go south on the east side or the west side of the appalachains. Unless you've got pressurization and lots of range, you probably won't be able to simply ignore the hills.
For me, in Eastern Ontario, going south on the east side is shorter. So, I clear US customs as soon as possible, so that if I have to divert it's no big deal. Then down past Syracuse, Wilkes-Barre, skirt the southwestern edge of the Philly TCA, and down the peninsula to Salisbur, MD. This handily avoids the Washington ADIZ. Follow the bridge to Norfolk, the down through north and south carolina, georgia, and florida.
Not being the sharpest tool in the shed, I like to keep the navigation simple in case the GPS craps out - follow the shoreline works most of the time. Blue on the left, green on the right. I can handle that.
In the USA, FBO's are very well equipped - they will all have PC's to let you look at the weather. FSS is 1-800-WXBRIEF in the USA for information about TFR's. Be sure and check ahead for 100LL prices, you can save a LOT by landing at the right airports. THere are a LOT more airports in the USA - it's wonderful.
In the USA, flight following is the norm for VFR, traffic load permitting for ATC. Departing a towered airport, they will often get you a squawk code without even asking, and off you go. Very little difference from IFR, actually.
Oh, the west side of the hills. Done that lots of time, as I said I think it's longer, but wx may push you there. No big deal either way, just be sure to get a whack of current sectionals - they're legally required in the USA.
There is no CFS, what I use is the AOPA flight directory. It has the numbers for US Customs for each airport, and that alone is worthwhile.
btw, you can legally fly through MOAs in the USA - they are NOT prohibited (like around Camp David, or the White House) or TFRs. Just ask FSS if they're "hot" or not, and off you go.
Coming back to Canada, it's 1-888-CANPASS. Be sure to file a flight plan in both directions, and get a squawk code from the appropriate USA ATC before you cross the border.
Hope this helps. I'm sure some left wing idiot will crap all over me for it, but hey, it's what I've learned over the years.
Victor 3 the whole way.
Well you can look it up, stay far far away from any Restricted areas.
Some are not marked properly on some VFR charts and you can
get busted just the same.
ie: Space center in Cocoa Beach.....
But if you do go near there check out "the outer marker" for lunch
in Titusville Regional Airport.
Or "Hi Jackers" in Flagler (Bunnell) florida. Nice name huh.
Well you can look it up, stay far far away from any Restricted areas.
Some are not marked properly on some VFR charts and you can
get busted just the same.
ie: Space center in Cocoa Beach.....
But if you do go near there check out "the outer marker" for lunch
in Titusville Regional Airport.
Or "Hi Jackers" in Flagler (Bunnell) florida. Nice name huh.
For the third friggin time....Flt 124 at 24oh!
http://map.aeroplanner.com/mapping/TFR.cfmclunckdriver wrote:If VFR use flight following at all times to stay out of the TFRs, everytime JWB goes for a walk they spring up with little or no notice, unless of course you want to get some nice air to air shots of an F16!
I went to the Bahamas for my CPL XC a few years back, we left from Victoria, went down to San Diego, then up to Vegas, then down to Corpus Christy, then over to FL, then down to “Walkers Key” (I just couldn’t resist the name J ) Then up the OTHER coast to Canada, then back across the flats, over the hills and home…
Just got back a few weeks ago ferrying a 182 TRG back home to Vic from Cape Corel FL.
Unfortunately not too sure about your routing, BUT a few things I have learned flying in the States in a light AC.
Clear US customs at the BIGGEST airport you can find. Go at a busy part of the day, be succinct and to the point, (yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir.) BE ON TIME, being late only pisses customs off, so try to plan your time as well as you can.
I have found big airports are the best simply because the gals and guys working there are busy, and don’t have time to futs about. Small airports where the officer only clears 3 people a day and is board as hell the rest of the day is FAR more likely to run you through the ringer, make you unload etc…
If you don’t have one onboard get a good handheld GPS with a current database, these things are worth their weight in diamonds that for sure. If you have the ability to, do the WHOLE thing filed IFR, this alleviates all issues around airspace, traffic, and getting lost… I would NEVER do one of these trips VFR again… not to mention if you are going IFR I don’t think you need sectionals, so that cant be more than 4 Lo charts… Get the JEP guide (JEPs CFS) GREAT book, gives hotels, car rentals, FBOs, attractions etc…
IF you are NOT the one paying for gas Id suggest you hit up some of the nice swanky FBOs, like Signature… these guys have some NICE metal parked out front, and if your lucky you may see someone famous… they also have wicked deals for hotels. On this last trip when we were in Orange County we were set up in a room for $80 that under normal rate was something like $180… Signature also has good crew rates on cars as well; if you plan on doing any sightseeing…
If your going to the keys and want to get a life raft there is an FBO in Miami that rents them for cheep (there IS a signature at the airport, but this place in sort of a mom and pop place with a funny name, use the JEP and call ahead… ) Also there is some GREAT cheddar and Beer soup on the field in Ft Lauderdale, the place is all done up like a WW2 bunker, worth a lunch stop…
US ATC cant understand Can indents so be ready to repeat yourself, and listen for them calling you with a November, or saying “was that Navy Foxtrot Foxtrot?” also a lot of them have a preponderance to just say your letters straight out so instead of using the phonetic alphabet so Tango Echo Kilo, will become TEK.
On the return trip when clearing CAN customs, go to a medium airport with 24hr clearing, and land at like 3:00am….. on a rainy day…. 10 times out of 10 they wont show, you just call them back and they give you a number over the ph for the journey log and tell you to have a nice evening…
The last 12 times iv crossed the border coming home I have NOT ONCE actually seen an officer…. Even at mid day if you land at a medium airport with a terminal timed with the arrival of a big sced flight they just don’t show up…. Too busy during the day, too lazy at night,….
Now this is all stuff that’s valid from someone living on the left coast, may not be the same over there in the center of the universe, but id hedge a bet that a gov worker Is a gov worker… and what sort of self respecting government employee is going to put down their coffee, drive over and stand in the pouring rain at 3am to clear 2 people in a 172…
Hope that helps a bit!
-walk
Just got back a few weeks ago ferrying a 182 TRG back home to Vic from Cape Corel FL.
Unfortunately not too sure about your routing, BUT a few things I have learned flying in the States in a light AC.
Clear US customs at the BIGGEST airport you can find. Go at a busy part of the day, be succinct and to the point, (yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir.) BE ON TIME, being late only pisses customs off, so try to plan your time as well as you can.
I have found big airports are the best simply because the gals and guys working there are busy, and don’t have time to futs about. Small airports where the officer only clears 3 people a day and is board as hell the rest of the day is FAR more likely to run you through the ringer, make you unload etc…
If you don’t have one onboard get a good handheld GPS with a current database, these things are worth their weight in diamonds that for sure. If you have the ability to, do the WHOLE thing filed IFR, this alleviates all issues around airspace, traffic, and getting lost… I would NEVER do one of these trips VFR again… not to mention if you are going IFR I don’t think you need sectionals, so that cant be more than 4 Lo charts… Get the JEP guide (JEPs CFS) GREAT book, gives hotels, car rentals, FBOs, attractions etc…
IF you are NOT the one paying for gas Id suggest you hit up some of the nice swanky FBOs, like Signature… these guys have some NICE metal parked out front, and if your lucky you may see someone famous… they also have wicked deals for hotels. On this last trip when we were in Orange County we were set up in a room for $80 that under normal rate was something like $180… Signature also has good crew rates on cars as well; if you plan on doing any sightseeing…
If your going to the keys and want to get a life raft there is an FBO in Miami that rents them for cheep (there IS a signature at the airport, but this place in sort of a mom and pop place with a funny name, use the JEP and call ahead… ) Also there is some GREAT cheddar and Beer soup on the field in Ft Lauderdale, the place is all done up like a WW2 bunker, worth a lunch stop…
US ATC cant understand Can indents so be ready to repeat yourself, and listen for them calling you with a November, or saying “was that Navy Foxtrot Foxtrot?” also a lot of them have a preponderance to just say your letters straight out so instead of using the phonetic alphabet so Tango Echo Kilo, will become TEK.
On the return trip when clearing CAN customs, go to a medium airport with 24hr clearing, and land at like 3:00am….. on a rainy day…. 10 times out of 10 they wont show, you just call them back and they give you a number over the ph for the journey log and tell you to have a nice evening…
The last 12 times iv crossed the border coming home I have NOT ONCE actually seen an officer…. Even at mid day if you land at a medium airport with a terminal timed with the arrival of a big sced flight they just don’t show up…. Too busy during the day, too lazy at night,….
Now this is all stuff that’s valid from someone living on the left coast, may not be the same over there in the center of the universe, but id hedge a bet that a gov worker Is a gov worker… and what sort of self respecting government employee is going to put down their coffee, drive over and stand in the pouring rain at 3am to clear 2 people in a 172…
Hope that helps a bit!
-walk
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Rubberbiscuit
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bluesideup
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trip to FLA.
When I do long distance traveling, to an area I am unfamiliar with, I use http://www.airnav.com . Click on Aviation Fuel, and then trip planner. It will give you a few routes, up to 10, and provide cost of gas along the way. Because Airnav is planning for low cost fuel, it keeps you away from the expensive big airports.
One other thought. When I'm planning a trip and don't yet have Sectionals, I use http://www.aeroplanner.com and look at their SmartChart in the Flight Planning section.
Have a fun and safe trip!
One other thought. When I'm planning a trip and don't yet have Sectionals, I use http://www.aeroplanner.com and look at their SmartChart in the Flight Planning section.
Have a fun and safe trip!
Legally, you are correct. And I agree with you that filing IFR through complicated airspace is a LOT easier than VFR - you're doing what the FAA (ATC) tells you to do.not to mention if you are going IFR I don’t think you need sectionals
However, I would STRONGLY advice upon carrying some kind of VFR charts, even if they are out of date.
Doing an IFR approach into someplace, it's sure nice to look at the VFR chart before you start descending into the cloud, for stuff like:
"Gee, there are hills to 8,000 feet just north of the airport"
"Gee, there are two airports just a couple miles apart, I better land at the correct one!"
You won't always get vectors to the localizer, and just have to look out the windshield 200 feet. When something starts to go wrong, trust me, you will want to know about about where you're flying into.
You never know when it would be really handy to cancel IFR, too. Then you'd better know what you're doing, VFR.
Too bad the WAC charts are gone.
