The Campaign

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
grimreaper70
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:55 pm

The Campaign

Post by grimreaper70 »

The Campaign


In what could be described as the most successful campaign since the “Vote Pedro” movement in Napoleon Dynamite – ACPA pilots did their own song & dance and got to work writing their officials about a rapidly eroding jump seat agreement. While elected leaders outside of ACPALand at least pay lip service in saying that they want to hear from their constituents – this term called "engagement" - there is no such undertaking here. Unlike that talkative recently divorced flight attendant that on occasion gets the attention of the two time divorced Captain and seemingly can’t take the hint that it is time to go back – ACPA cut to the chase -there was no tip toeing around this command – don’t talk to our best pal, the company, or else! There hasn’t been such a fine example of protection since Steve on Jerry Springer. I mean you can literally hear the calls “Jerry, Jerry…” as the bell goes off and commuters were ready to throw chairs


I don’t think anyone can blame anyone for the emotions here – the membership was about to get Ron Maclean’d. Poor Don Cherry didn’t see the bus coming so fast either. A jump seat agreement is a pivotal part of commuting to work as many pilots choose not to participate in the show “Million Dollar Listing Vancouver”. It is outright expensive near any base and with the combination of a flat pay system that makes garbage collecting a better choice for paying bills – a necessity


The issue came to light when it was realized that a single login for an entire system wasn’t such a good idea. Who would have thought? In a day where there is multi-factor authentication & encryption – we have a single generic username & password to login into Canada’s biggest flight network. I mean the logistics on this checks out about as much as having a localizer only approach on the longest runway in Halifax. I mean do you really need to wait for the inevitable shit storm?


While ACPA pilots were told to go stand in the corner, CUPE came out of the corner swinging. With what can be described as a “union” - CUPE has been throwing out grievances faster than ACPA can hand out concessions at the hot dog stand while hiding in the back chowing down on overtime wieners. Surely FAs are concerned about cancelled flights as ACPA is? Nope – they stated the employer should “maintain adequate staffing going forward”


Perhaps it is time ACPA PA’d “In Charge Flight Attendant Report to the Flight Deck”

Because at least CUPE is showing some leadership in campaigning for their membership
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by grimreaper70 on Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jet a1
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 402
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 12:35 pm

Re: The Campaign

Post by jet a1 »

“CUPE has been throwing out grievances faster than ACPA can hand out concessions at the hot dog stand while hiding in the back chowing down on overtime wieners.”

Best thing I’ve ever read on this forum. 😀
---------- ADS -----------
 
Squid
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 330
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:35 pm
Location: Timmins

Re: The Campaign

Post by Squid »

The problem isn’t the jump booking tool it was the process after that between the booking and the flight and actually sitting in the seat. Not the fact “that in this day of”
That’s why it’s still intact in other airlines but like anything tho processes will change. Just glad they are working on a fix. Not ACPAs fault here
---------- ADS -----------
 
Torontomaplelaughs
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:17 pm

Re: The Campaign

Post by Torontomaplelaughs »

The problem is we have a disguised union that is really a company sympathizer. The email from the MEC literally told the membership to stop contacting them.

ACPA goes to bat for the company when it has problems. It does not go to bat for its members when they have problems

When the collective agreement is being violated & we have ACPA leaders eating up OT - all you hear from ACPA is how we should be happy to "capture" this flying. Look at other unions - what is the tone of their language? It is clear who they work for just like it is clear who ACPA works for - the company

Sending an email like this to the membership is 100% ACPA's fault
---------- ADS -----------
 
mijbil
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:06 pm
Location: Rain Coast

Re: The Campaign

Post by mijbil »

This is one of the funnier posts I've read on here. Well done. A friend over at WS tells me that WS is now charging their own pilots the JS fees that others (from other carriers) have been charged instead of getting on for free like they used to do. Costs can run up to about $50 depending on the AIFs (YYC and YEG are about $40 IIRC), taxes and paying for CATSA. It's just one more little things to piss people off who commute.
Down in the US they have the Known Crew Member program which means when commuting that you don't have to join the regular lineups https://www.knowncrewmember.org/about-us/
They also allow crewmembers from other airlines to ride in the actual JS under the CASS rules (thus freeing up another cabin seat)
https://www.alpa.org/~/media/ALPA/Files ... -guide.pdf and https://www.alpa.org/en/resources/coron ... ailability
Not sure if it's all free but I think it might be.... http://jumpseatinfo.org/

Meanwhile back in Canada we get the "royal treatment" from CATSA even if working. Once clear of their clutches we are then free to pickup a spare serrated stainless steel steak knife or two from the local restaurant. Once at the aircraft we can then ensure that the large crash axe is still in it's holder as part of the Stand Up checklist. Good times.

Retirement is looking better and better and once things get really rolling and more retirements kick in or others elect to carry on with their side gigs as their new line of work and take an LOA or just call it quits.....
---------- ADS -----------
 
Dionysus
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat May 08, 2021 7:56 pm

Re: The Campaign

Post by Dionysus »

mijbil wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:04 am This is one of the funnier posts I've read on here. Well done. A friend over at WS tells me that WS is now charging their own pilots the JS fees that others (from other carriers) have been charged instead of getting on for free like they used to do. Costs can run up to about $50 depending on the AIFs (YYC and YEG are about $40 IIRC), taxes and paying for CATSA. It's just one more little things to piss people off who commute.
Down in the US they have the Known Crew Member program which means when commuting that you don't have to join the regular lineups https://www.knowncrewmember.org/about-us/
They also allow crewmembers from other airlines to ride in the actual JS under the CASS rules (thus freeing up another cabin seat)
https://www.alpa.org/~/media/ALPA/Files ... -guide.pdf and https://www.alpa.org/en/resources/coron ... ailability
Not sure if it's all free but I think it might be.... http://jumpseatinfo.org/

Meanwhile back in Canada we get the "royal treatment" from CATSA even if working. Once clear of their clutches we are then free to pickup a spare serrated stainless steel steak knife or two from the local restaurant. Once at the aircraft we can then ensure that the large crash axe is still in it's holder as part of the Stand Up checklist. Good times.

Retirement is looking better and better and once things get really rolling and more retirements kick in or others elect to carry on with their side gigs as their new line of work and take an LOA or just call it quits.....
If you knew anything about Jump, many have brought fwd trying to implement known crew member in Canada. It isn’t happening due to our system. Jazz, WestJet etc have all taken a poke at it. It isn’t happening and many memos have been published on it over the years.
As for charging fees back to the pilots at WJ wtf are you talking about? AC had to start charging AIF because they were wrongly administering it and nobody is exempt from AIF. WJ ALPA tried too. The problem is the airport authorities are all on the same page with each other sharing notes and it won’t change. End of story.
Air Transat has a “free” ticket for their own pilots on their own metal(not even charging AIF or tax but they are getting away with it as nobody has told the airport authorities or the tax man… but that’s a business in QC for ya Lol.
There ya go. So post the details of what “your friend said” and let’s have a look at what is being charged and why lol then maybe you can have some credibility.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Localizer
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1426
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:18 pm
Location: CYYZ

Re: The Campaign

Post by Localizer »

Dionysus wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:01 pm
mijbil wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:04 am This is one of the funnier posts I've read on here. Well done. A friend over at WS tells me that WS is now charging their own pilots the JS fees that others (from other carriers) have been charged instead of getting on for free like they used to do. Costs can run up to about $50 depending on the AIFs (YYC and YEG are about $40 IIRC), taxes and paying for CATSA. It's just one more little things to piss people off who commute.
Down in the US they have the Known Crew Member program which means when commuting that you don't have to join the regular lineups https://www.knowncrewmember.org/about-us/
They also allow crewmembers from other airlines to ride in the actual JS under the CASS rules (thus freeing up another cabin seat)
https://www.alpa.org/~/media/ALPA/Files ... -guide.pdf and https://www.alpa.org/en/resources/coron ... ailability
Not sure if it's all free but I think it might be.... http://jumpseatinfo.org/

Meanwhile back in Canada we get the "royal treatment" from CATSA even if working. Once clear of their clutches we are then free to pickup a spare serrated stainless steel steak knife or two from the local restaurant. Once at the aircraft we can then ensure that the large crash axe is still in it's holder as part of the Stand Up checklist. Good times.

Retirement is looking better and better and once things get really rolling and more retirements kick in or others elect to carry on with their side gigs as their new line of work and take an LOA or just call it quits.....
If you knew anything about Jump, many have brought fwd trying to implement known crew member in Canada. It isn’t happening due to our system. Jazz, WestJet etc have all taken a poke at it. It isn’t happening and many memos have been published on it over the years.
As for charging fees back to the pilots at WJ wtf are you talking about? AC had to start charging AIF because they were wrongly administering it and nobody is exempt from AIF. WJ ALPA tried too. The problem is the airport authorities are all on the same page with each other sharing notes and it won’t change. End of story.
Air Transat has a “free” ticket for their own pilots on their own metal(not even charging AIF or tax but they are getting away with it as nobody has told the airport authorities or the tax man… but that’s a business in QC for ya Lol.
There ya go. So post the details of what “your friend said” and let’s have a look at what is being charged and why lol then maybe you can have some credibility.

You can Jumpseat on Air Transat for free .. you’ll be charged nothing. AIF fees only apply when a fare is charged. No fare, no AIF ..
---------- ADS -----------
 
hithere
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 520
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 8:05 am

Re: The Campaign

Post by hithere »

WestJet/Encore did have a system last year whereby if a pilot agreed to be available to be “activated” while on his commute from domicile to crew base on a WestJet/Encore flight the flight would be free(of all charges including AIF etc). I talked to many of their commuters last year and basically they were never”activated” ie used to operate the flight during their commute the day before or the day of their original scheduled pairing so it was basically a free commute. After the new flight time/duty time Reg’s we’re implemented late last year WJ management decided that having the commuter available to be activated had implications for duty time etc and revoked the free commute. Now they pay the same ridiculous AIF etc as the rest of us commuters in Canada do.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Dionysus
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat May 08, 2021 7:56 pm

Re: The Campaign

Post by Dionysus »

Localizer wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:12 pm
Dionysus wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:01 pm
mijbil wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:04 am This is one of the funnier posts I've read on here. Well done. A friend over at WS tells me that WS is now charging their own pilots the JS fees that others (from other carriers) have been charged instead of getting on for free like they used to do. Costs can run up to about $50 depending on the AIFs (YYC and YEG are about $40 IIRC), taxes and paying for CATSA. It's just one more little things to piss people off who commute.
Down in the US they have the Known Crew Member program which means when commuting that you don't have to join the regular lineups https://www.knowncrewmember.org/about-us/
They also allow crewmembers from other airlines to ride in the actual JS under the CASS rules (thus freeing up another cabin seat)
https://www.alpa.org/~/media/ALPA/Files ... -guide.pdf and https://www.alpa.org/en/resources/coron ... ailability
Not sure if it's all free but I think it might be.... http://jumpseatinfo.org/

Meanwhile back in Canada we get the "royal treatment" from CATSA even if working. Once clear of their clutches we are then free to pickup a spare serrated stainless steel steak knife or two from the local restaurant. Once at the aircraft we can then ensure that the large crash axe is still in it's holder as part of the Stand Up checklist. Good times.

Retirement is looking better and better and once things get really rolling and more retirements kick in or others elect to carry on with their side gigs as their new line of work and take an LOA or just call it quits.....
If you knew anything about Jump, many have brought fwd trying to implement known crew member in Canada. It isn’t happening due to our system. Jazz, WestJet etc have all taken a poke at it. It isn’t happening and many memos have been published on it over the years.
As for charging fees back to the pilots at WJ wtf are you talking about? AC had to start charging AIF because they were wrongly administering it and nobody is exempt from AIF. WJ ALPA tried too. The problem is the airport authorities are all on the same page with each other sharing notes and it won’t change. End of story.
Air Transat has a “free” ticket for their own pilots on their own metal(not even charging AIF or tax but they are getting away with it as nobody has told the airport authorities or the tax man… but that’s a business in QC for ya Lol.
There ya go. So post the details of what “your friend said” and let’s have a look at what is being charged and why lol then maybe you can have some credibility.

You can Jumpseat on Air Transat for free .. you’ll be charged nothing. AIF fees only apply when a fare is charged. No fare, no AIF ..
Yup, that’s the one. Other airlines dug into what transat was doing because their pilots wanted it too. The companies tax people can’t figure it out scratching their heads. It will end one of these days when the AA’s and the gov tax hounds sink their teeth into it. Blame that on acpa too?
AMD yeah, change in flight duty rules accountability for commutes ended acm. Sucks, let’s blame acpa too :roll:
---------- ADS -----------
 
iflyroads
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:50 am

Re: The Campaign

Post by iflyroads »

Localizer wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:12 pm
Dionysus wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:01 pm
mijbil wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:04 am This is one of the funnier posts I've read on here. Well done. A friend over at WS tells me that WS is now charging their own pilots the JS fees that others (from other carriers) have been charged instead of getting on for free like they used to do. Costs can run up to about $50 depending on the AIFs (YYC and YEG are about $40 IIRC), taxes and paying for CATSA. It's just one more little things to piss people off who commute.
Down in the US they have the Known Crew Member program which means when commuting that you don't have to join the regular lineups https://www.knowncrewmember.org/about-us/
They also allow crewmembers from other airlines to ride in the actual JS under the CASS rules (thus freeing up another cabin seat)
https://www.alpa.org/~/media/ALPA/Files ... -guide.pdf and https://www.alpa.org/en/resources/coron ... ailability
Not sure if it's all free but I think it might be.... http://jumpseatinfo.org/

Meanwhile back in Canada we get the "royal treatment" from CATSA even if working. Once clear of their clutches we are then free to pickup a spare serrated stainless steel steak knife or two from the local restaurant. Once at the aircraft we can then ensure that the large crash axe is still in it's holder as part of the Stand Up checklist. Good times.

Retirement is looking better and better and once things get really rolling and more retirements kick in or others elect to carry on with their side gigs as their new line of work and take an LOA or just call it quits.....
If you knew anything about Jump, many have brought fwd trying to implement known crew member in Canada. It isn’t happening due to our system. Jazz, WestJet etc have all taken a poke at it. It isn’t happening and many memos have been published on it over the years.
As for charging fees back to the pilots at WJ wtf are you talking about? AC had to start charging AIF because they were wrongly administering it and nobody is exempt from AIF. WJ ALPA tried too. The problem is the airport authorities are all on the same page with each other sharing notes and it won’t change. End of story.
Air Transat has a “free” ticket for their own pilots on their own metal(not even charging AIF or tax but they are getting away with it as nobody has told the airport authorities or the tax man… but that’s a business in QC for ya Lol.
There ya go. So post the details of what “your friend said” and let’s have a look at what is being charged and why lol then maybe you can have some credibility.

You can Jumpseat on Air Transat for free .. you’ll be charged nothing. AIF fees only apply when a fare is charged. No fare, no AIF ..

Some of the "managerial passes" at AC charge no fare price or service charges yet still somehow collect AIF and taxes.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Dias
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:22 pm

Re: The Campaign

Post by Dias »

Ironically these smug mid-wit posts are a good example of why pilots consistently get dunked on by the executives during negotiations.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Fanblade
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1693
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: The Campaign

Post by Fanblade »

**** wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:27 am Ironically these smug mid-wit posts are a good example of why pilots consistently get dunked on by the executives during negotiations.
Smug mid-wit = poor negotiating outcomes.

Your simply attacking the person rather than the message. Perhaps you should highlight some intellectual misfires before making a statement like that.

So what is it about Grimreapers posts that leads you to believe he’s not that intelligent.
---------- ADS -----------
 
mijbil
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:06 pm
Location: Rain Coast

Re: The Campaign

Post by mijbil »

Dionysus wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:01 pm If you knew anything about Jump, many have brought fwd trying to implement known crew member in Canada. It isn’t happening due to our system. Jazz, WestJet etc have all taken a poke at it. It isn’t happening and many memos have been published on it over the years.
As for charging fees back to the pilots at WJ wtf are you talking about? AC had to start charging AIF because they were wrongly administering it and nobody is exempt from AIF. WJ ALPA tried too. The problem is the airport authorities are all on the same page with each other sharing notes and it won’t change. End of story.
Air Transat has a “free” ticket for their own pilots on their own metal(not even charging AIF or tax but they are getting away with it as nobody has told the airport authorities or the tax man… but that’s a business in QC for ya Lol.
There ya go. So post the details of what “your friend said” and let’s have a look at what is being charged and why lol then maybe you can have some credibility.
Here you go chief. An example of what WS is charging internally for YYC to YYZ. They had ACM for years and it was free but with the new duty regs, the company line is
"We got rid of ACM officially because they said they couldn’t regulate our crew rest under the new cars."
He also told me that " It would be up to the airline if they want to charge the employee. WJ says it’s a revenue Canada thing. The reality is the airports give the company a kickback by charging it, so they make money off our commutes, even though they don’t charge us a fee directly (so they say)".
Do I have direct proof that this is the case? Not yet but I'll be asking my current JS guys that very question.
Secondly, at my previous outfit, one of our JS committee guys was sitting in a meeting (a few years back) with Transport and the CASS question was raised to Transport. The TC woman sniffed and said something along the lines of "That doesn't fit our model". I would say that the problem lies at TC. As things get rolling again in the next while, and as the mythical pilot shortage that actually was starting to show itself at second and third tier carriers shows up again, then MAYBE the companies will pressure TC to make things easier on commuters. South of the border they are cancelling for lack of crews. Being a commuter I know nothing about jump (at least according to you). Here you go: an example of what WS is charging their own to get to work. YYC to YYZ. I see they (YYC) have upped their AIF from $40 to $65
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attachments
IMG_0455.jpg
IMG_0455.jpg (78.25 KiB) Viewed 3797 times
fixnfly
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:21 am

Re: The Campaign

Post by fixnfly »

Yea jumpseating has become quite a bit costlier. Still cheaper than living in YYZ or YVR. Not sure why WestJet is charging you higher AIFs. AC/Jazz are only charging $35 for the AIFs although they charge a base fare even for commuting which is annoying. I do wish the airlines would prioritize commuting as there are far more people doing it now compared to a few decades ago. Living in those cities is just so unaffordable.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attachments
4E453B7C-525D-4CC9-A5D4-C80F77AAAD0C.jpeg
4E453B7C-525D-4CC9-A5D4-C80F77AAAD0C.jpeg (165.67 KiB) Viewed 3713 times
hithere
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 520
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 8:05 am

Re: The Campaign

Post by hithere »

Fixnfly:
you must be a Jazz employee because the service charge you have posted there is different for mainline employees. I believe the service charge for mainline employees is only $5 so their total cost for that flight would be around $50
---------- ADS -----------
 
TFTMB heavy
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 656
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am

Re: The Campaign

Post by TFTMB heavy »

On Air Transat it's $0.
---------- ADS -----------
 
plhought
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 500
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:02 am
Location: Calgary

Re: The Campaign

Post by plhought »

AC Maintenance here (well - still on layoff...)

Service fee has always been $0. Always had to pay taxes and fees.

There was some pseudo-lawsuit decade ago about the whole taxes and fees thing. Basically courts said pound sand.
---------- ADS -----------
 
hithere
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 520
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 8:05 am

Re: The Campaign

Post by hithere »

The lawsuit is still alive and well
https://evolinklaw.com/airport-improvem ... ling-list/
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Air Canada”