Hmmmmmm

[PilotY]

See image.

[RegionalPilot]

No need to hide who it is… Voyageur in North Bay, ON

[Invertago]

I didn't believe it so I looked it up and... its there but I still don't believe it... and I certainly don't understand why anyone would chase that, this isn't 2001. Gov't is giving better pay to sit at home in your basement on what ever variation of the CERB we're on right now.

[C-GGGQ]

Like is that per flight hour? On top of a base salary? A salary of “40 hours a week”? Not excusing it, but that seems very vague?

[RegionalPilot]

I actually have a question regarding wages in relation to flight hours… Would it be legal for a company to pay minimum wage per flight hour? We’re always told to not look at the hourly wage for a pilot but how much you’ll end up doing at the end of the year. Let’s assume a minimum wage of 14$ x 850 hours a year. Is there anything that prevents a company from doing something that stupid? We don’t consider pre/post flight in our airline salary, do we…?

[Cavalier44]

I actually have a question regarding wages in relation to flight hours… Would it be legal for a company to pay minimum wage per flight hour? We’re always told to not look at the hourly wage for a pilot but how much you’ll end up doing at the end of the year. Let’s assume a minimum wage of 14$ x 850 hours a year. Is there anything that prevents a company from doing something that stupid? We don’t consider pre/post flight in our airline salary, do we…?

I don’t believe so. Keep in mind that a full-time position is defined as working 40 hours per week. That means that they’d be required to pay you $14 x 40 = $560 per week, or $29,120 per year.

Using your situation, $14 x 850 gives only $11,900 per year, or less than half of what would be considered minimum annual salary for a full-time position. This is why airlines like Jazz, for example, pay their new-hire FAs ~$21/hour depending on what province they’re based in. When you factor in a 900-hour year, it allows them to meet the respective provincial minimum wage requirement based on an annual salary.

[lownslow]

Yikes, I made more than that when I started instructing in a little Cessna 15+ years ago. Probably flew more too.

[‘Bob’]

Back in my day…. ….we paid cash for a PPC and worked for free. And we liked it that way.

[scdriver]

That's unbelievable. I made more than that per duty hour flying a 180 my first year.

[‘Bob’]

This title needs fixing.

[PitchLink]

See image.

And someone will do it…… the downward spiral is abysmal in Canada’s aviation industry. These rates should be illegal

[garfield]

They could offer 2$ per hour and get plenty of resumes.

[mmm..bacon]

As always, if you don't like it, then don't apply; if no-one does so, then they'll be forced to raise their compensation...
OTOH, some little snotnose will probably do so, whine about the pay for a year (or whatever the bond time is) and then fox oscar to Jazz and then Air Canada, where they can tell tales of having paid their dues in the industry...

[Bil Derberg]

I didn't believe it so I looked it up and... its there but I still don't believe it... and I certainly don't understand why anyone would chase that, this isn't 2001. Gov't is giving better pay to sit at home in your basement on what ever variation of the CERB we're on right now.

Any one who is thirstywho just wants their foot in the door in their post-instructing job is gunna get on their knees for that job. Sad but true.

[Heliian]

What do you expect, it's an entry level job.

You paid for your CPL and now you need a job to gain experience. How much should we pay a zero timer with no skills?

It's like this everywhere now with most industries, everyone wants top dollar for nothing, entitled whiners. That's not how the world actually works, you need to earn a living, get experience and prove yourself valuable.

[CYERCaptainPooping]

Does anyone know if they will hire anyone with less than 1000hr total time. I applied and haven’t heard back yet?

[PitchLink]

What do you expect, it's an entry level job.

You paid for your CPL and now you need a job to gain experience. How much should we pay a zero timer with no skills?

It's like this everywhere now with most industries, everyone wants top dollar for nothing, entitled whiners. That's not how the world actually works, you need to earn a living, get experience and prove yourself valuable.

And that kind of attitude is exactly why this industry will never progress to skill/equity that it actually is. You sound like someone tied to a low end aerosexual flight school. $20/hr. You live on that wage after spending 100k for a license. First year heavy duty apprentices make 30/hr, you’re delusional. What little credibility you may have had you completely flushed with this ridiculous post.

[Heliian]

What do you expect, it's an entry level job.

You paid for your CPL and now you need a job to gain experience. How much should we pay a zero timer with no skills?

It's like this everywhere now with most industries, everyone wants top dollar for nothing, entitled whiners. That's not how the world actually works, you need to earn a living, get experience and prove yourself valuable.

And that kind of attitude is exactly why this industry will never progress to skill/equity that it actually is. You sound like someone tied to a low end aerosexual flight school. $20/hr. You live on that wage after spending 100k for a license. First year heavy duty apprentices make 30/hr, you’re delusional. What little credibility you may have had you completely flushed with this ridiculous post.

Not delusional thanks, just a realist.
How many years of schooling does a heavy mechanic do? Their skillsets are way beyond that of a pilot also and they're expected to actually put in physical work in shitty conditions.

Low wages are no good, I get it but getting riled up for a company offering a minimum starting wage of $20, which is several dollars above the legal minimum wage doesn't seem that bad. Especially if they're going to train you as part of the job, remember training bonds?

As always, there's plenty of other work out there if you don't like it. Heck, live on the dole the rest of your life, that's a real moneymaker

[rookiepilot]

What do you expect, it's an entry level job.

You paid for your CPL and now you need a job to gain experience. How much should we pay a zero timer with no skills?

This.

I don’t get why this is so hard for anyone to understand. Having a freshly minted pilots license doesn’t make one a pilot, just places one in a (disgusting) larvae like state between a student and a fully productive individual, much like new MBA’s.

[PitchLink]

What do you expect, it's an entry level job.

You paid for your CPL and now you need a job to gain experience. How much should we pay a zero timer with no skills?

It's like this everywhere now with most industries, everyone wants top dollar for nothing, entitled whiners. That's not how the world actually works, you need to earn a living, get experience and prove yourself valuable.

And that kind of attitude is exactly why this industry will never progress to skill/equity that it actually is. You sound like someone tied to a low end aerosexual flight school. $20/hr. You live on that wage after spending 100k for a license. First year heavy duty apprentices make 30/hr, you’re delusional. What little credibility you may have had you completely flushed with this ridiculous post.

Not delusional thanks, just a realist.
How many years of schooling does a heavy mechanic do? Their skillsets are way beyond that of a pilot also and they're expected to actually put in physical work in shitty conditions.

Low wages are no good, I get it but getting riled up for a company offering a minimum starting wage of $20, which is several dollars above the legal minimum wage doesn't seem that bad. Especially if they're going to train you as part of the job, remember training bonds?

As always, there's plenty of other work out there if you don't like it. Heck, live on the dole the rest of your life, that's a real moneymaker

Yes there’s lots of work out there, and I’m always busy. To what “dole” you’re referring to I have no clue, but it seems to be the only alternative you think of when anyone points out crap wages and voices some kind of concern and self worth as a TC regulated profession.

The HET trade is approximately 8000hours, four terms of 8 weeks of school between years. Quite in line with an ame license which, by the way is regulated for wage based on percentage of fully licensed per year of apprenticeship, where ames are not, it’s just whatever employers offer or negotiate (in Canada).
As for a PILOTS LICENSE it’s 100 or 200hrs and 1-2 years of school depending which avenue you go, and a five figure investment that needs to make someone a living. Let alone additional ratings (IFR, mountain course, etc.) I don’t think it’s out of line to expect reasonable pay when there’s minimum requirements the employer is listing. But supply and demand, free trade and bilateral agreements etc……. Lots of TFW’s flying and fixing this past summer…

As for shitty conditions?!?!? The only ones I’ve endured were that of working on airplanes and helicopters in Canada! As a red seal HET I can honestly say I’ve never worked in worse conditions than I did as an ame or in the flying game here on domestic soil.

As for the training, every professional industry invests in their employees, more so than aviation, and doesn’t shame their employees for sending them for professional development like this industry does. Recurrent and initial training is whats needed for employees to be productive, it’s a cost of doing business, real organizations with (properly educated) management know this.

This isn’t “entitlement” this is pointing out that the starting line for such a huge investment in time, money, and responsibility should at least be fair in the beginning. Being a 100 or 200 hour pilot isn’t nothing, and until that attitude changes (I don’t think it ever will in Canada) downward spiral of low wages will continue on. It’s like a disease here ffs.

So $20/hr huh? Good talk

[PitchLink]

What do you expect, it's an entry level job.

You paid for your CPL and now you need a job to gain experience. How much should we pay a zero timer with no skills?

This.

I don’t get why this is so hard for anyone to understand. Having a freshly minted pilots license doesn’t make one a pilot, just places one in a (disgusting) larvae like state between a student and a fully productive individual, much like new MBA’s.

New mba’s make a hare more than $20/hr in a non safety sensitive environment

[BGH]

I’m not in the aviation industry but I am a millwright in the Grain industry on the west coast.
Starting wage is $38.00,no skills required.full benefits & a pension if you stay long enough.
Our current tradespeople make anywhere from $45 to $50 per hour.
Work schedule is 6 on & 3 off,8 hour day - 3 shifts.
Kids where I work wouldn’t even get out of bed for $20 per hour.

Daryl

[rookiepilot]

I’m not in the aviation industry but I am a millwright in the Grain industry on the west coast.
Starting wage is $38.00,no skills required.full benefits & a pension if you stay long enough.
Our current tradespeople make anywhere from $45 to $50 per hour.
Work schedule is 6 on & 3 off,8 hour day - 3 shifts.
Kids where I work wouldn’t even get out of bed for $20 per hour.

Daryl

But teen girls don’t ooohh and ahhh to millwrights in the mall, as new FO’s think will happen when they wear those 3 bar uniforms into clothing stores……

[PitchLink]

I’m not in the aviation industry but I am a millwright in the Grain industry on the west coast.
Starting wage is $38.00,no skills required.full benefits & a pension if you stay long enough.
Our current tradespeople make anywhere from $45 to $50 per hour.
Work schedule is 6 on & 3 off,8 hour day - 3 shifts.
Kids where I work wouldn’t even get out of bed for $20 per hour.

Daryl

YUP, that’s what a REAL industry does to retain and attract a strong workforce. Aviation pathetically, knows there’s always going to be some bottom of the barrel pilot or ame that will take the next vacancy no matter how strained the supply may be. The business model for most in Canada is the revolving door.

I literally had a colleague that I ran into this past summer on fires that owns a large operator in western Canada tell me “two years is all I want out of anyone, fixing or flying, after that they want more money”. He further extrapolated that “pilots are a dime a dozen and ames are just parts changers”. I considered him a good guy until those words crossed his lips. He clearly drank the coolaide…

[BGH]

I sure pissed off my 737 captain friend back in the early 80’s when I made the same money as him- didn’t get ahead of me until he stepped up to the 767 ; his income doubled mine when he went to the 747-400.
I am happy sleeping in my own bed every night & many want to talk to me about owning my own Cessna 185 at 23,which I still own 38 years later.

Daryl