More Trouble in Paradise....

[Realitychex]

https://ipolitics.ca/2021/10/04/lobby-w ... om-ottawa/

[Soyer]

Except it is the same process that all the airlines petitioned the government for in terms of aid and low cost loads. The process has been ongoing for months.

[Old fella]

“Unpredictability and not dependable “ are two deadly torpedoes that could severely damage or sink a carrier such Flair. No doubt there are ongoing growing pains trying to run an airline covering both West and East of the country with a smaller fleet as compared to others. It wouldn’t be all that surprising to see them abandon routes that at present haven’t panned out because competition is keen for those leisure travel dollars - here in YHZ could be seen as a good example. Again wishing Flair and employees good luck and clear sailing going forward.

[boeingboy]

Just a thought.....but maybe they shouldn't give away their flights for free.

https://flights.flyflair.com/en-ca/sale ... j4J-_G7uNM

get 100% off base fare on all hollywood burbank flights using promo code: laforfree

[Realitychex]

I’m waiting for Flair’s PR team to announce “overwhelming” demand for the free flights to Burbank.

If there’s organic demand as a result of a careful strategic and tactical network planning, something Flair has steadfastly avoided since day one, flights will fill with economic fares without having to give them away gratis.

The “lose a little on every seat but make it up on volume” strategy continues to unfold as expected.......

[nynybear]

I’m waiting for Flair’s PR team to announce “overwhelming” demand for the free flights to Burbank.

If there’s organic demand as a result of a careful strategic and tactical network planning, something Flair has steadfastly avoided since day one, flights will fill with economic fares without having to give them away gratis.

The “lose a little on every seat but make it up on volume” strategy continues to unfold as expected.......

Hey Chex, respectfuly, can you please provide your source for what seems to be factually based real time load factor information? Unfortunately until you're able to do that then everything you say remains absent of any credibility.

While you're at it, would you also kindly disclose yoir source on flight cancellations and the operational reasons behind them? If you are truthfully an employee of a competitor Airline then you are biased to the extreme and have zero credibility commenting on this subject. Especially about what you know nothing about in the present or future.

I've got a few close friends working for Fair and they are adamant on how consistently strong the load factors have been (other than statistical seasonal dips of which affects every Airline) including in and out of certain airports that were shunned by outsiders like yourself. They are also adamant on how much of a pleasure the company is to work for.

As far as ULCC price setting goes, you'd be quite naive to think that Flair is selling all the seats to Burbank at a 100% discounted rate and I would recommend some light reading on the economics, marketing strategies, and ASK based price setting of ultra low-cost carriers.

On a more conciliatory note, why not let Flair attempt to prosper unmolested in the current duopoly of the Canadian Aviation Market? It is to the direct benefit of absolutely everybody and I for one am sick and tired of paying $1,800 for me and my misses to fly from Vancouver to Calgary on the other available options only to have the flights cancelled at the last minute for no apparent reason.

The world-wide aviation market winds have shifted and you either get on board or you get left behind.

[fish4life]

I’m waiting for Flair’s PR team to announce “overwhelming” demand for the free flights to Burbank.

If there’s organic demand as a result of a careful strategic and tactical network planning, something Flair has steadfastly avoided since day one, flights will fill with economic fares without having to give them away gratis.

The “lose a little on every seat but make it up on volume” strategy continues to unfold as expected.......

Hey Chex, respectfuly, can you please provide your source for what seems to be factually based real time load factor information? Unfortunately until you're able to do that then everything you say remains absent of any credibility.

While you're at it, would you also kindly disclose yoir source on flight cancellations and the operational reasons behind them? If you are truthfully an employee of a competitor Airline then you are biased to the extreme and have zero credibility commenting on this subject. Especially about what you know nothing about in the present or future.

I've got a few close friends working for Fair and they are adamant on how consistently strong the load factors have been (other than statistical seasonal dips of which affects every Airline) including in and out of certain airports that were shunned by outsiders like yourself. They are also adamant on how much of a pleasure the company is to work for.

As far as ULCC price setting goes, you'd be quite naive to think that Flair is selling all the seats to Burbank at a 100% discounted rate and I would recommend some light reading on the economics, marketing strategies, and ASK based price setting of ultra low-cost carriers.

On a more conciliatory note, why not let Flair attempt to prosper unmolested in the current duopoly of the Canadian Aviation Market? It is to the direct benefit of absolutely everybody and I for one am sick and tired of paying $1,800 for me and my misses to fly from Vancouver to Calgary on the other available options only to have the flights cancelled at the last minute for no apparent reason.

The world-wide aviation market winds have shifted and you either get on board or you get left behind.

Looks like flair management has entered the chat

[nynybear]

I’m waiting for Flair’s PR team to announce “overwhelming” demand for the free flights to Burbank.

If there’s organic demand as a result of a careful strategic and tactical network planning, something Flair has steadfastly avoided since day one, flights will fill with economic fares without having to give them away gratis.

The “lose a little on every seat but make it up on volume” strategy continues to unfold as expected.......

Hey Chex, respectfuly, can you please provide your source for what seems to be factually based real time load factor information? Unfortunately until you're able to do that then everything you say remains absent of any credibility.

While you're at it, would you also kindly disclose yoir source on flight cancellations and the operational reasons behind them? If you are truthfully an employee of a competitor Airline then you are biased to the extreme and have zero credibility commenting on this subject. Especially about what you know nothing about in the present or future.

I've got a few close friends working for Fair and they are adamant on how consistently strong the load factors have been (other than statistical seasonal dips of which affects every Airline) including in and out of certain airports that were shunned by outsiders like yourself. They are also adamant on how much of a pleasure the company is to work for.

As far as ULCC price setting goes, you'd be quite naive to think that Flair is selling all the seats to Burbank at a 100% discounted rate and I would recommend some light reading on the economics, marketing strategies, and ASK based price setting of ultra low-cost carriers.

On a more conciliatory note, why not let Flair attempt to prosper unmolested in the current duopoly of the Canadian Aviation Market? It is to the direct benefit of absolutely everybody and I for one am sick and tired of paying $1,800 for me and my misses to fly from Vancouver to Calgary on the other available options only to have the flights cancelled at the last minute for no apparent reason.

The world-wide aviation market winds have shifted and you either get on board or you get left behind.

Looks like flair management has entered the chat

Sorry... go 'Fish'

[confuzed]

I’m waiting for Flair’s PR team to announce “overwhelming” demand for the free flights to Burbank.

If there’s organic demand as a result of a careful strategic and tactical network planning, something Flair has steadfastly avoided since day one, flights will fill with economic fares without having to give them away gratis.

The “lose a little on every seat but make it up on volume” strategy continues to unfold as expected.......

Hey Chex, respectfuly, can you please provide your source for what seems to be factually based real time load factor information? Unfortunately until you're able to do that then everything you say remains absent of any credibility.

While you're at it, would you also kindly disclose yoir source on flight cancellations and the operational reasons behind them? If you are truthfully an employee of a competitor Airline then you are biased to the extreme and have zero credibility commenting on this subject. Especially about what you know nothing about in the present or future.

I've got a few close friends working for Fair and they are adamant on how consistently strong the load factors have been (other than statistical seasonal dips of which affects every Airline) including in and out of certain airports that were shunned by outsiders like yourself. They are also adamant on how much of a pleasure the company is to work for.

As far as ULCC price setting goes, you'd be quite naive to think that Flair is selling all the seats to Burbank at a 100% discounted rate and I would recommend some light reading on the economics, marketing strategies, and ASK based price setting of ultra low-cost carriers.

On a more conciliatory note, why not let Flair attempt to prosper unmolested in the current duopoly of the Canadian Aviation Market? It is to the direct benefit of absolutely everybody and I for one am sick and tired of paying $1,800 for me and my misses to fly from Vancouver to Calgary on the other available options only to have the flights cancelled at the last minute for no apparent reason.

The world-wide aviation market winds have shifted and you either get on board or you get left behind.

Load factor means absolutely nothing when the yield is no good.

[MyWave]

I’m waiting for Flair’s PR team to announce “overwhelming” demand for the free flights to Burbank.

If there’s organic demand as a result of a careful strategic and tactical network planning, something Flair has steadfastly avoided since day one, flights will fill with economic fares without having to give them away gratis.

The “lose a little on every seat but make it up on volume” strategy continues to unfold as expected.......

Hey Chex, respectfuly, can you please provide your source for what seems to be factually based real time load factor information? Unfortunately until you're able to do that then everything you say remains absent of any credibility.

While you're at it, would you also kindly disclose yoir source on flight cancellations and the operational reasons behind them? If you are truthfully an employee of a competitor Airline then you are biased to the extreme and have zero credibility commenting on this subject. Especially about what you know nothing about in the present or future.

I've got a few close friends working for Fair and they are adamant on how consistently strong the load factors have been (other than statistical seasonal dips of which affects every Airline) including in and out of certain airports that were shunned by outsiders like yourself. They are also adamant on how much of a pleasure the company is to work for.

As far as ULCC price setting goes, you'd be quite naive to think that Flair is selling all the seats to Burbank at a 100% discounted rate and I would recommend some light reading on the economics, marketing strategies, and ASK based price setting of ultra low-cost carriers.

On a more conciliatory note, why not let Flair attempt to prosper unmolested in the current duopoly of the Canadian Aviation Market? It is to the direct benefit of absolutely everybody and I for one am sick and tired of paying $1,800 for me and my misses to fly from Vancouver to Calgary on the other available options only to have the flights cancelled at the last minute for no apparent reason.

The world-wide aviation market winds have shifted and you either get on board or you get left behind.

Looks like flair management has entered the chat

Zing !!!

[evilgravy]

I've got a few close friends working for Fair and they are adamant on how consistently strong the load factors have been (other than statistical seasonal dips of which affects every Airline) including in and out of certain airports that were shunned by outsiders like yourself. They are also adamant on how much of a pleasure the company is to work for.

Without outing your "close friends" - I'd be curious what roles they hold with the company, and what numbers they're actually seeing. It's one thing to see a flight you're operating with 150-odd people on it and assume load factors across the board are good, when reality is quite different.

[Realitychex]

Let’s just say I’ve been to the rodeo more than a few times.

The fact that Flair’s owners and their agents are busy lobbying Ottawa for handouts long after the depth of the covid crisis has ended at the end of the busiest quarter is simply a further indicator that the operation is on life support.

Government money ain’t cheap. That’s why WestJet didn’t take a dime.

You tell me how much costly blood investors are prepared to transfuse into the beast to keep it alive, all the while staying on-side CTA foreign ownership requirements, and I’ll tell you within 90 days how long they’ll last.

It’s just math.

The problem is that only the owners and their private equity investors know that number. Unlike Porter, they don’t have a $50m terminal they can do a $700m+ sale leaseback on to fill the coffers. Flair has virtually no assets.

When they hit that number and decide to no longer underwrite the losses, they’ll pull the ‘chute. That’s how it works. There will be be no orderly wind up like Greyhound.

They’ll never signal collapse in advance. That’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. Kevin Benson did that at CP in the early fall of ‘99. It was game over within about 60 days. They couldn’t make the Dec 15 1999 payroll. Done and dusted.

Flair will continue to operate until the day they don't.

Then we’ll see the stories of “shocked and stunned” employees not to mention “stranded and frustrated” passengers.

Full airplanes means absolutely nothing. It’s fully allocated BELF that matters.

[imjustlurking]

Government money ain’t cheap. That’s why WestJet didn’t take a dime.

I recall them using CERB for active and furloughed pilots alike.

[Airbrake]

Government money ain’t cheap. That’s why WestJet didn’t take a dime.

I recall them using CERB for active and furloughed pilots alike.

They did, but those didn’t have any strings attached like seats on the board or share ownership or loans attached. I believe that is what he is referring to.

[fish4life]

Let’s just say I’ve been to the rodeo more than a few times.

The fact that Flair’s owners and their agents are busy lobbying Ottawa for handouts long after the depth of the covid crisis has ended at the end of the busiest quarter is simply a further indicator that the operation is on life support.

Government money ain’t cheap. That’s why WestJet didn’t take a dime.

You tell me how much costly blood investors are prepared to transfuse into the beast to keep it alive, all the while staying on-side CTA foreign ownership requirements, and I’ll tell you within 90 days how long they’ll last.

It’s just math.

The problem is that only the owners and their private equity investors know that number. Unlike Porter, they don’t have a $50m terminal they can do a $700m+ sale leaseback on to fill the coffers. Flair has virtually no assets.

When they hit that number and decide to no longer underwrite the losses, they’ll pull the ‘chute. That’s how it works. There will be be no orderly wind up like Greyhound.

They’ll never signal collapse in advance. That’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. Kevin Benson did that at CP in the early fall of ‘99. It was game over within about 60 days. They couldn’t make the Dec 15 1999 payroll. Done and dusted.

Flair will continue to operate until the day they don't.

Then we’ll see the stories of “shocked and stunned” employees not to mention “stranded and frustrated” passengers.

Full airplanes means absolutely nothing. It’s fully allocated BELF that matters.

Government money isn’t cheap but it’s sure cheaper than the credit card interest rate loan they currently have

[Splash]

Unlike Porter, they don’t have a $50m terminal they can do a $700m+ sale leaseback on to fill the coffers. Flair has virtually no assets.

Porter sold the terminal some time ago. Their only current assets are the fleet of DH4's, roughly about 30 tails.

[rudder]

Unlike Porter, they don’t have a $50m terminal they can do a $700m+ sale leaseback on to fill the coffers. Flair has virtually no assets.

Porter sold the terminal some time ago. Their only current assets are the fleet of DH4's, roughly about 30 tails.

You know who Realitychex is, right?

[Soyer]

The only gov't funding currently in play (and requested) is the RATI (regional initiative) funding which is NOT a loan or otherwise. It is funding to promote regional connections. So barking down the wrong path.

[tbaylx]

The only gov't funding currently in play (and requested) is the RATI (regional initiative) funding which is NOT a loan or otherwise. It is funding to promote regional connections. So barking down the wrong path.

Like it was mentioned above, it's all speculation with a private company. Sometimes people (even experienced ones) looking from the outside think they know what's going on and make assumptions that aren't necessarily correct. Plenty of current and former airline management continue to think they've seen the story before and underestimate Flair. All good with us. Maybe we'll see someone rooting through our recycling box soon

[indieadventurer]

Unlike Porter, they don’t have a $50m terminal they can do a $700m+ sale leaseback on to fill the coffers. Flair has virtually no assets.

Porter sold the terminal some time ago. Their only current assets are the fleet of DH4's, roughly about 30 tails.

You know who Realitychex is, right?

David Neeleman, Mark Hill, Tim Morgan, or Donald Bell?