It has been done several times ( I know first hand), and it’s really not hard to set up a flight department with the right guys. “Management” is quite the masquerade to say the least, I could extrapolate on the profit sharing some companies’ offer their employees and where that money actually goes (at some companies) but I digress, the point is made for whoever else reads this, it’s greasy business.schnitzel2k3 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:09 pmI think that would be ideal if a company had those resources (AOC/AMO) setup, basically bare bones and let flight crew bring in owners and setup their jet as a pseudo private flight department. I know some companies do offer bare bones packages, but most push to have more access so as to gouge owners on maintenance and charter (hot ticket items) while controlling narrative on other elements under the guise of reducing overall costs.Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:44 amI know EXACTLY what you’re talking about. I believe the blue collar’s would call this “sand bagging”. Wait, I AM BLUE COLLAR! The few years I dealt with said management companies I was in shock at the waste that was billed to aircraft owners, it’s bordering on theft for lack of better terminology. That’s why I say and I still maintain each customer should have their own flight department (AMO and AOC). With a group of SKILLED pilot and AME staff this is very doable and would keep their DOC’s at I’m betting half the price OR LESS. The PROBLEM is that there is nowhere for these wealthy customers to turn to for advice but existing flight departments and management companies. Nobody is educating them on the amount of waste and if they are, it’s falling on deaf ears. Not to mention the constant confusion and disorganization inherent whenever management companies get involved with decisions between the owners and flight crew / maintenance.schnitzel2k3 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:32 am Yes sir. The slow WAWCON death spiral brought on by uber competitive carbon copy management companies.
Fingers crossed the next shortage really hurts a lot of these companies and we see a healthy jump in conditions and growth similar to 2019. It'd be nice to see the majors make a good jump in conditions, both so the emoloyees benefits, but also so they weren't an anchor on negotiations.
The funny part is these management companies make it seem like THEY absorb a lot of costs. Nope, not 1 penny (rounded to a nickel) comes out of these companies pockets. They are money printing machines - billing owners left right and center (plus a percentage) for services rendered, plus generating 10%+ on charter. Why not promote healthy salaries, and multiple crew, perhaps a properly funded contribution plan or charter profit share?
Our company has a 'profit share'. Great. Then I find out its billed directly to the owner and sold to them under a different title. *sigh*
Jetport
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Re: Jetport
- schnitzel2k3
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Re: Jetport
Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:34 pmIt has been done several times ( I know first hand), and it’s really not hard to set up a flight department with the right guys. “Management” is quite the masquerade to say the least, I could extrapolate on the profit sharing some companies’ offer their employees and where that money actually goes (at some companies) but I digress, the point is made for whoever else reads this, it’s greasy business.schnitzel2k3 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:09 pmI think that would be ideal if a company had those resources (AOC/AMO) setup, basically bare bones and let flight crew bring in owners and setup their jet as a pseudo private flight department. I know some companies do offer bare bones packages, but most push to have more access so as to gouge owners on maintenance and charter (hot ticket items) while controlling narrative on other elements under the guise of reducing overall costs.Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:44 am
I know EXACTLY what you’re talking about. I believe the blue collar’s would call this “sand bagging”. Wait, I AM BLUE COLLAR! The few years I dealt with said management companies I was in shock at the waste that was billed to aircraft owners, it’s bordering on theft for lack of better terminology. That’s why I say and I still maintain each customer should have their own flight department (AMO and AOC). With a group of SKILLED pilot and AME staff this is very doable and would keep their DOC’s at I’m betting half the price OR LESS. The PROBLEM is that there is nowhere for these wealthy customers to turn to for advice but existing flight departments and management companies. Nobody is educating them on the amount of waste and if they are, it’s falling on deaf ears. Not to mention the constant confusion and disorganization inherent whenever management companies get involved with decisions between the owners and flight crew / maintenance.
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Re: Jetport
Lol I needed thatschnitzel2k3 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:47 pmBug_Stomper_01 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:34 pmIt has been done several times ( I know first hand), and it’s really not hard to set up a flight department with the right guys. “Management” is quite the masquerade to say the least, I could extrapolate on the profit sharing some companies’ offer their employees and where that money actually goes (at some companies) but I digress, the point is made for whoever else reads this, it’s greasy business.schnitzel2k3 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:09 pm
I think that would be ideal if a company had those resources (AOC/AMO) setup, basically bare bones and let flight crew bring in owners and setup their jet as a pseudo private flight department. I know some companies do offer bare bones packages, but most push to have more access so as to gouge owners on maintenance and charter (hot ticket items) while controlling narrative on other elements under the guise of reducing overall costs.
- schnitzel2k3
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Re: Jetport
How do you bill profit share to the owner sold under a different title? There’s a word for that, racketeering I believeschnitzel2k3 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:32 am Yes sir. The slow WAWCON death spiral brought on by uber competitive carbon copy management companies.
Fingers crossed the next shortage really hurts a lot of these companies and we see a healthy jump in conditions and growth similar to 2019. It'd be nice to see the majors make a good jump in conditions too, so the employees benefits, but also so they weren't an anchor on negotiations.
The funny part is these management companies make it seem like THEY absorb a lot of costs. Nope, not 1 penny (rounded to a nickel) comes out of these companies pockets. They are money printing machines - billing owners left right and center (plus a percentage) for services rendered, plus generating 10%+ on charter. Why not promote healthy salaries, and multiple crew, perhaps a properly funded contribution plan or charter profit share?
Our company has a 'profit share'. Great. Then I find out its billed directly to the owner and sold to them under a different title. *sigh*
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Re: Jetport
YesPitchLink wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:41 amHow do you bill profit share to the owner sold under a different title? There’s a word for that, racketeering I believeschnitzel2k3 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:32 am Yes sir. The slow WAWCON death spiral brought on by uber competitive carbon copy management companies.
Fingers crossed the next shortage really hurts a lot of these companies and we see a healthy jump in conditions and growth similar to 2019. It'd be nice to see the majors make a good jump in conditions too, so the employees benefits, but also so they weren't an anchor on negotiations.
The funny part is these management companies make it seem like THEY absorb a lot of costs. Nope, not 1 penny (rounded to a nickel) comes out of these companies pockets. They are money printing machines - billing owners left right and center (plus a percentage) for services rendered, plus generating 10%+ on charter. Why not promote healthy salaries, and multiple crew, perhaps a properly funded contribution plan or charter profit share?
Our company has a 'profit share'. Great. Then I find out its billed directly to the owner and sold to them under a different title. *sigh*