Hiring DEC's

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Free Woodpecker
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by Free Woodpecker »

Free Woodpecker wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:32 pm
tbaylx wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:22 pm
indieadventurer wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:18 am

Is the company looking to change this?

Your use of the word "currently" caught my eye.
Contract negotiations are ongoign. Anything is possible I suppose.
With typical overtime, what could a year one DEC expect to make with present contract? And how many days is per month worked on average once able to bid a monthly block?
Thanks!
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tbaylx
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by tbaylx »

Free Woodpecker wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:32 pm
tbaylx wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:22 pm
indieadventurer wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:18 am

Is the company looking to change this?

Your use of the word "currently" caught my eye.
Contract negotiations are ongoign. Anything is possible I suppose.
With typical overtime, what could a year one DEC expect to make year one with present contract? And how many days is per month worked on average once able to bid a monthly block?
Thanks!
OT is dependent on base and how keen you are. Currently, there's about as much as you want and pilots are doubling their pay regularly. I wouldn't say there is a typical amount but realistically $150k/year is easily achievable with OT each month and we have some pilots who are well above that. Base pay before OT is $115k/year

We have a new contract coming out imminently and that will change the pay for Captains so using the current numbers won't be a realistic comparison.

Our pilots average about 16 days off per month and the range is between 13-14 on the low end to 20 days off on the high side depending on base and seniority.
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Purgatory
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by Purgatory »

Don't expect to make 150K in your first year at Flair on the current contract. Plan on the base 114,528.
Hopefully, the new contract is 150K+ for the first year, but as it stands right now, it would take a significant amount of OT to reach 150. Keep in mind it's going to take you 6-8 months to complete training.
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Soyer
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by Soyer »

Other than AC & WJ no one pays over $150,000 for a 1st year Captain and WJ is just over.
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Purgatory
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by Purgatory »

Flair is, or will soon be, the third-largest airline in Canada. It's time to pay an industry standard wage and benefits.
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Soyer
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by Soyer »

Purgatory wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:30 am Flair is, or will soon be, the third-largest airline in Canada. It's time to pay an industry standard wage and benefits.
True - but AC/WJ are not industry standard. They have been around for a long time and any expectation to meet those wages is ridiculous. But not doubt a good raise is in order!
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Tdicommuter
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by Tdicommuter »

Do you understand what the term industry standard actually means?

It means that if I'm trained as a (pick a profession), then there is a floor to the wages and working conditions for that profession.

Hey I'm a plumber can I get a job at your company

Sure but we only pay half the wages of everyone else because this is a new company.

Wouldn't you question that logic? Hmmm does that mean the business can never afford to pay me what I'm worth? If the business is not capable of operating without wages being BELOW industry standard is that a precedent I'd like to be a part of? Is this venture viable long term if eventually I get paid industry standard?
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digits_
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by digits_ »

Tdicommuter wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:47 pm Do you understand what the term industry standard actually means?

It means that if I'm trained as a (pick a profession), then there is a floor to the wages and working conditions for that profession.

Hey I'm a plumber can I get a job at your company

Sure but we only pay half the wages of everyone else because this is a new company.

Wouldn't you question that logic? Hmmm does that mean the business can never afford to pay me what I'm worth? If the business is not capable of operating without wages being BELOW industry standard is that a precedent I'd like to be a part of? Is this venture viable long term if eventually I get paid industry standard?
You don't think companies try that? Construction jobs are usually unionized, so that's maybe a bad example, but I'm sure lawyers and accountants and software developers and most other professions deal with the same issues. There's just a bigger market for those, so you don't always have to uproot your life to switch over to a better company. There's also no bonds and no 'objective' measure of experience. If a company needs 2000 hours for a client contract, it's hard to argue you qualify with 1000 hours. If a company wants someone with 3 years of experience, it's easier to argue that that apprenticeship or that irrelevant job you had did in fact have some relevance.
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bcflyer
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by bcflyer »

Soyer wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 9:14 am
Purgatory wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:30 am Flair is, or will soon be, the third-largest airline in Canada. It's time to pay an industry standard wage and benefits.
True - but AC/WJ are not industry standard. They have been around for a long time and any expectation to meet those wages is ridiculous. But not doubt a good raise is in order!
This is why the Canadian industry is so far behind. You are correct that AC and WJ are not industry standard. They are well BELOW industry standard. Have a look around. Airlines are paying far more than AC or WJ and have better working conditions. Aim higher people!!
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Papa_Justin
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by Papa_Justin »

bcflyer wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:16 am
Soyer wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 9:14 am
Purgatory wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:30 am Flair is, or will soon be, the third-largest airline in Canada. It's time to pay an industry standard wage and benefits.
True - but AC/WJ are not industry standard. They have been around for a long time and any expectation to meet those wages is ridiculous. But not doubt a good raise is in order!
This is why the Canadian industry is so far behind. You are correct that AC and WJ are not industry standard. They are well BELOW industry standard. Have a look around. Airlines are paying far more than AC or WJ and have better working conditions. Aim higher people!!
Could you share some examples of where to aim?
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bcflyer
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by bcflyer »

Papa_Justin wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:36 pm
bcflyer wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:16 am
Soyer wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 9:14 am

True - but AC/WJ are not industry standard. They have been around for a long time and any expectation to meet those wages is ridiculous. But not doubt a good raise is in order!
This is why the Canadian industry is so far behind. You are correct that AC and WJ are not industry standard. They are well BELOW industry standard. Have a look around. Airlines are paying far more than AC or WJ and have better working conditions. Aim higher people!!
Could you share some examples of where to aim?
Seriously?? Take a look at just about any major airline in the US. Let’s look at Southwest. A LCC. They fly the 737 domestically. Here are their Captain pay scales.
737
12 274
11 271
10 268
9 265
8 262
7 259
6 256
5 253
4 250
3 247
2 244
1 241
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Canadaflyer46
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by Canadaflyer46 »

Papa_Justin wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:36 pm
bcflyer wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:16 am
Soyer wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 9:14 am

True - but AC/WJ are not industry standard. They have been around for a long time and any expectation to meet those wages is ridiculous. But not doubt a good raise is in order!
This is why the Canadian industry is so far behind. You are correct that AC and WJ are not industry standard. They are well BELOW industry standard. Have a look around. Airlines are paying far more than AC or WJ and have better working conditions. Aim higher people!!
Could you share some examples of where to aim?
F5363F36-921D-4952-B4C4-A2DFBB717330.png
F5363F36-921D-4952-B4C4-A2DFBB717330.png (727.06 KiB) Viewed 1875 times
Few years out of date but you get the picture. Oh, that’s US dollars too.
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pelmet
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by pelmet »

I think the way it works in Canada is that pilots make less on average and other crew make more on average. We have a more socialist society from health care to everything else. And if you make more money, it just gets taxed more, so no real need to make much more money.

Many of you have voted for this and of those who didn't, your fellow Canadians did. So just accept it. You may not have as fancy a house as the United pilot, but the rest of the crew have more spending money.
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flyinhigh
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by flyinhigh »

Soyer wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:46 pm Other than AC & WJ no one pays over $150,000 for a 1st year Captain and WJ is just over.
TS first year Capt is $149,853, which NO pilot starts at so real year one is $155K on the narrowbody, which doesn't exist so really first year captain is now $184.
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by rooster »

Soyer wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:46 pm Other than AC & WJ no one pays over $150,000 for a 1st year Captain and WJ is just over.
Heard Flair's 1st year captain pay is going up to $145k+ 1st year. Not quite over $150k but a big improvement from $114k.
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big_sky
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by big_sky »

rooster wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:40 pm
Soyer wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:46 pm Other than AC & WJ no one pays over $150,000 for a 1st year Captain and WJ is just over.
Heard Flair's 1st year captain pay is going up to $145k+ 1st year. Not quite over $150k but a big improvement from $114k.
Air Transat new pay rates as of May 1, 2022 for year 1 Captain is $177K, but everyone who upgrades starts at year 2 which is $184K.
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homesick
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by homesick »

Any plans for DEC hiring? Was checking out their careers site. Currently looking only for effoes.

Can apply for the trainer position but prefer to be in the air rather than in the box.
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by Papa_Justin »

bcflyer wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:52 pm
Papa_Justin wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:36 pm
bcflyer wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:16 am

This is why the Canadian industry is so far behind. You are correct that AC and WJ are not industry standard. They are well BELOW industry standard. Have a look around. Airlines are paying far more than AC or WJ and have better working conditions. Aim higher people!!
Could you share some examples of where to aim?
Seriously?? Take a look at just about any major airline in the US. Let’s look at Southwest. A LCC. They fly the 737 domestically. Here are their Captain pay scales.
737
12 274
11 271
10 268
9 265
8 262
7 259
6 256
5 253
4 250
3 247
2 244
1 241
I was under the impression that you were talking about Canadian airlines. Ya I'm aware the states are far more ahead pay-wise. Out of curiosity, could a pilot residing in Montreal work for an American airline?
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flying4dollars
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by flying4dollars »

homesick wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:04 am Any plans for DEC hiring? Was checking out their careers site. Currently looking only for effoes.

Can apply for the trainer position but prefer to be in the air rather than in the box.
Flair hired a bunch of DEC's and upgradeable FO's since that was their first priority for the expansion, so right now most of the hiring will be strictly FO's going forward. But upgrade times will still be relatively quick compared to most other 737 operators.
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flyinhigh
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Re: Hiring DEC's

Post by flyinhigh »

Papa_Justin wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:08 pm
I was under the impression that you were talking about Canadian airlines. Ya I'm aware the states are far more ahead pay-wise. Out of curiosity, could a pilot residing in Montreal work for an American airline?

You should know by now that whenever Avcanada talks about wages it is purely in USD as that's all the lawyers/arbitrators look at during negotiations :smt040 .
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