The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

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HD9113
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The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by HD9113 »

I believe the majority of you have an ultimate goal of getting into an airliner ASAP.
Did some research on iATPL programme in Brampton Flight Center (BFM), it stated that "Successful students who have completed 250 hours of total flying, and have achieved a minimum cumulative score of 80% on the ATPL exams are eligible to participate in the selection process for direct entry to first officer positions at Jazz". It sounds perfect to me so I'm wondering
1) There is a lot of negative threads talking about iATPL is a scam, and only super outstanding graduates will have an interview chance to Jazz. But from the text above it seems not that unachievable. Does anyone have an idea about what portion of the class could get an interview chance for Jazz?
2) Some threads say that the selection process of the BFM iATPL program is basically easy since its about $$$. But from BFM's iATPL info video on youtube, only around 30 out of 100 applicants were selected into the program. Is the selection process that tough? Are those who failed to admit the program having financial issues perhaps?
3) It says after graduating from the program, a frozen ATPL will be allocated. But I wonder for those "successful" candidates who work in Jazz afterwards, do they fly as an FO without an "unfrozen" ATPL? It doesn't make sense.

I also discovered another program that has been temporary suspended due to COVID - Jazz Approach, anyone know more about the selection process of it before covid? Not much threads are talking about this program as well as CAE's page.
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by RegionalPilot »

You are allowed to fly at 705 because of the completion of your ATPL exams, not because you have an ATPL. So you will fly under the privilege of a CPL, and having done your exams gives you the privilege to crew a 705 airplane as a FO.
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by Turboprops »

iATPL basically means you’re a CPL that can fly a two crew aircraft, nothing fancy.
One thing people don’t think about when their goal is to go to jazz at 250 is PIC time. You realistically have 2 options, career FO or rent a Cessna for 100+ hours.
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by RegionalPilot »

Turboprops wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:38 am iATPL basically means you’re a CPL that can fly a two crew aircraft, nothing fancy.
One thing people don’t think about when their goal is to go to jazz at 250 is PIC time. You realistically have 2 options, career FO or rent a Cessna for 100+ hours.
Not true, Jazz offers PICUS, just like westjet. It might take a while to reach 250, but it is there to prevent that kind of situation.
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by Turboprops »

RegionalPilot wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:12 pm
Turboprops wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:38 am iATPL basically means you’re a CPL that can fly a two crew aircraft, nothing fancy.
One thing people don’t think about when their goal is to go to jazz at 250 is PIC time. You realistically have 2 options, career FO or rent a Cessna for 100+ hours.
Not true, Jazz offers PICUS, just like westjet. It might take a while to reach 250, but it is there to prevent that kind of situation.
Correct me if this info is wrong:
You can only log PICUS with a training captain, for half the time, within the preceding 12 months to your application. (There’s currently an exemption to this but I doubt it’ll be there forever).
You also need 150 PIC to start PICUS, there’s a reason why a bunch of Seneca grads are renting instead of just relying on PICUS
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HD9113
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by HD9113 »

RegionalPilot wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:12 pm
Turboprops wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:38 am iATPL basically means you’re a CPL that can fly a two crew aircraft, nothing fancy.
One thing people don’t think about when their goal is to go to jazz at 250 is PIC time. You realistically have 2 options, career FO or rent a Cessna for 100+ hours.
Not true, Jazz offers PICUS, just like westjet. It might take a while to reach 250, but it is there to prevent that kind of situation.
reaching 250 shouldn't be an issue since you will obtain 250 upon graduation of the iATPL program?
Turboprops wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:49 pm
RegionalPilot wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:12 pm
Turboprops wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:38 am iATPL basically means you’re a CPL that can fly a two crew aircraft, nothing fancy.
One thing people don’t think about when their goal is to go to jazz at 250 is PIC time. You realistically have 2 options, career FO or rent a Cessna for 100+ hours.
Not true, Jazz offers PICUS, just like westjet. It might take a while to reach 250, but it is there to prevent that kind of situation.
Correct me if this info is wrong:
You can only log PICUS with a training captain, for half the time, within the preceding 12 months to your application. (There’s currently an exemption to this but I doubt it’ll be there forever).
You also need 150 PIC to start PICUS, there’s a reason why a bunch of Seneca grads are renting instead of just relying on PICUS
I am a bit confused at this part. Would you mind elaborate more? :oops:
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HD9113
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by HD9113 »

Turboprops wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:38 am iATPL basically means you’re a CPL that can fly a two crew aircraft, nothing fancy.
One thing people don’t think about when their goal is to go to jazz at 250 is PIC time. You realistically have 2 options, career FO or rent a Cessna for 100+ hours.
If I am dedicated to become an airline FO, seems not a bad choice to stick with the iATPL since i won't go anywhere like Cessna but operating an airliner.
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by RegionalPilot »

HD9113 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:53 pm
RegionalPilot wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:12 pm
Turboprops wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:38 am iATPL basically means you’re a CPL that can fly a two crew aircraft, nothing fancy.
One thing people don’t think about when their goal is to go to jazz at 250 is PIC time. You realistically have 2 options, career FO or rent a Cessna for 100+ hours.
Not true, Jazz offers PICUS, just like westjet. It might take a while to reach 250, but it is there to prevent that kind of situation.
reaching 250 shouldn't be an issue since you will obtain 250 upon graduation of the iATPL program?
Turboprops wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:49 pm
RegionalPilot wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:12 pm

Not true, Jazz offers PICUS, just like westjet. It might take a while to reach 250, but it is there to prevent that kind of situation.
Correct me if this info is wrong:
You can only log PICUS with a training captain, for half the time, within the preceding 12 months to your application. (There’s currently an exemption to this but I doubt it’ll be there forever).
You also need 150 PIC to start PICUS, there’s a reason why a bunch of Seneca grads are renting instead of just relying on PICUS
I am a bit confused at this part. Would you mind elaborate more? :oops:
The 250 is the PIC requirement for the ATPL licence, not the total time
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Turboprops
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by Turboprops »

To sum it up, you need an actual ATPL to become a captain at Jazz. One of the requirements of an ATPL is having 250 PIC.
When you graduate from Brampton you’ll have somewhere around 100-150 PIC.
So you’ll need to find a way to get that remaining PIC hours. PICUS is one way, but pretty much impossible if you’re looking to use it for the entire 100+ hours of PIC for the reason stated above.
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by RoAF-Mig21 »

HD9113 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:39 am I believe the majority of you have an ultimate goal of getting into an airliner ASAP.


It seems to be the norm. It's great to know you have realized that early on in your training. With that goal in mind the answer is simple: Get to a regional (that has some sort of flow) to a major carrier. The path there is the tricky part and the reality a little harsh, as you will face fierce competition.

HD9113 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:39 am Did some research on iATPL programme in Brampton Flight Center (BFM), it stated that "Successful students who have completed 250 hours of total flying, and have achieved a minimum cumulative score of 80% on the ATPL exams are eligible to participate in the selection process for direct entry to first officer positions at Jazz". It sounds perfect to me so I'm wondering


Doesn't sound so perfect to me. It seems just a nice way the school is selling its program. I haven't heard of anyone at Jazz that came from the BFM. If they did, I haven't heard of it. Jazz is well connected with Seneca and even their students are strictly selected; not all of them are hired.

HD9113 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:39 am 1) There is a lot of negative threads talking about iATPL is a scam, and only super outstanding graduates will have an interview chance to Jazz. But from the text above it seems not that unachievable. Does anyone have an idea about what portion of the class could get an interview chance for Jazz?


Getting an interview is one thing. Getting hired, it's completly different. You're competing against Seneca (and other flight colleges) students and experienced pilots, many of which come with thousands of hours of instructing or 703/704 experience, full ATPLs flying DH8s, ATRs, B200s, corporate, etc. I had 2500 hrs (turbine / jet) when I joined Jazz and 500+ multi turbine pic. You have to be realistic of whom you're competing with. (For the record, I did not attend Seneca).

HD9113 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:39 am 2) Some threads say that the selection process of the BFM iATPL program is basically easy since its about $$$. But from BFM's iATPL info video on youtube, only around 30 out of 100 applicants were selected into the program. Is the selection process that tough? Are those who failed to admit the program having financial issues perhaps?


Are you saying 30% of the BFM iATPL program were hired by Jazz, or selected for the interview?

HD9113 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:39 am 3) It says after graduating from the program, a frozen ATPL will be allocated. But I wonder for those "successful" candidates who work in Jazz afterwards, do they fly as an FO without an "unfrozen" ATPL? It doesn't make sense.


That's correct. They have a CPL, Group 1 IFR + IATRA. "Frozen ATPL" is not really a thing in Canada. It's not like Europe or in the Middle East. Like others said above. With your ATPL exams written, you can fly two crew.

HD9113 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:39 am I also discovered another program that has been temporary suspended due to COVID - Jazz Approach, anyone know more about the selection process of it before covid? Not much threads are talking about this program as well as CAE's page.



While I understand your desire to get to Jazz as soon as possible, be careful "investing" your money into an iATPL program that offers you something unrealistic. The sure way to get there is get your licenses, get some relevant experience under your belt and apply. The time I spent in the Arctic flying King Airs, B1900s and Lears gave me the tools to be a better pilot at Jazz, not just with the flying aspect, but also with CRM and decision making. Having that piece of paper in your hand doesn't make you a good pilot. It's only a ticket to start learning.

Remember what I said earlier:
You have to be realistic of whom you're competing with

Good luck
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Last edited by RoAF-Mig21 on Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
HD9113
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by HD9113 »

Turboprops wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:42 am To sum it up, you need an actual ATPL to become a captain at Jazz. One of the requirements of an ATPL is having 250 PIC.
When you graduate from Brampton you’ll have somewhere around 100-150 PIC.
So you’ll need to find a way to get that remaining PIC hours. PICUS is one way, but pretty much impossible if you’re looking to use it for the entire 100+ hours of PIC for the reason stated above.
So can I put it in this way: you enter Jazz as an FO, building hours to promote as a Captain. Since certain PIC/flying hour requirement is mandatory to the promotion of Captain, it certainly exceeds 250 PIC so is not an issue?
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by Turboprops »

HD9113 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:13 am
Turboprops wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:42 am To sum it up, you need an actual ATPL to become a captain at Jazz. One of the requirements of an ATPL is having 250 PIC.
When you graduate from Brampton you’ll have somewhere around 100-150 PIC.
So you’ll need to find a way to get that remaining PIC hours. PICUS is one way, but pretty much impossible if you’re looking to use it for the entire 100+ hours of PIC for the reason stated above.
So can I put it in this way: you enter Jazz as an FO, building hours to promote as a Captain. Since certain PIC/flying hour requirement is mandatory to the promotion of Captain, it certainly exceeds 250 PIC so is not an issue?
Nope. Your time as an FO is not PIC, so you’ll never be able to upgrade to captain if all you do is sit right seat at Jazz. You can have 10000 hours but only 100 PIC, and still an FO after 10000 hours.
That’s what I meant as career FO.
You can get a little bit of it done as PICUS, but 200+ hours with a training captain in 12 month is impossible.
Seneca college is a part of Jazz Pathway as well, a lot of their grads run into this issue and just have to suck it up and rent cessnas outside of work.
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by Ozinater »

HD9113 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:39 am I believe the majority of you have an ultimate goal of getting into an airliner ASAP.
Did some research on iATPL programme in Brampton Flight Center (BFM), it stated that "Successful students who have completed 250 hours of total flying, and have achieved a minimum cumulative score of 80% on the ATPL exams are eligible to participate in the selection process for direct entry to first officer positions at Jazz". It sounds perfect to me so I'm wondering
1) There is a lot of negative threads talking about iATPL is a scam, and only super outstanding graduates will have an interview chance to Jazz. But from the text above it seems not that unachievable. Does anyone have an idea about what portion of the class could get an interview chance for Jazz?
2) Some threads say that the selection process of the BFM iATPL program is basically easy since its about $$$. But from BFM's iATPL info video on youtube, only around 30 out of 100 applicants were selected into the program. Is the selection process that tough? Are those who failed to admit the program having financial issues perhaps?
3) It says after graduating from the program, a frozen ATPL will be allocated. But I wonder for those "successful" candidates who work in Jazz afterwards, do they fly as an FO without an "unfrozen" ATPL? It doesn't make sense.

I also discovered another program that has been temporary suspended due to COVID - Jazz Approach, anyone know more about the selection process of it before covid? Not much threads are talking about this program as well as CAE's page.
I would strongly advise against viewing the IATPL program as "the fastest way to get into an airliner". Suffice it to say you will be punishing yourself if you predicate your success on whether or not you make it to an airline upon graduating. Every flight school/college that has a partnership with Jazz, of which there are several (BFC, Seneca, Waterloo, Mount Royal, Conestoga, Confed, Western, Air Richelieu etc etc), will probably mention on their website that eligible graduates from their program may be given an interview at Jazz. The opportunity may exist, but that does not mean you are guaranteed a job as an airline FO, let alone an interview, even if you are "super outstanding". As previously mentioned, you are competing against recent graduates from other schools, as well as people from different flying backgrounds. There are people in hiring pools or who received offers of employment at various regional airlines almost two years ago, who have their ATPL in-hand or have the required PIC time to obtain it in short order.

I can't say I know anyone in the last few years of graduating classes who went directly to Jazz. There are a number of BFC graduates who worked as instructors, aerial survey pilots, or at various 703/704 companies prior to moving on to places like Jazz/Sky Regional/Encore/Porter and other 705 gigs. Most of the "recent" (i.e. pre-COVID) Jazz college hires I know of are from Seneca, some from UWaterloo/Conestoga (not all immediately after graduating), and a handful from Mount Royal.

The program is what you make of it. BFC is a great school with well-established college programs. Like any post secondary aviation program, it requires a significant financial commitment. Whether or not it's worth it is up to you to determine. I didn't go that route since I had already started flight training before university, I just continued flying while doing my degree. I worked and flew a bunch during my summer off, then was able to use my earnings from the co-op terms I did as an undergrad to offset the costs of flight training. Since I was a self-paced student and didn't need to complete things in any particular order, I did the instructor rating right after my CPL and began working as an instructor in my final year of university, then did the multi/multi-IFR after a few hundred hours of instructing. It worked out well. I ended up saving a significant amount of money by keeping my training self-paced, got a non-aviation degree in something I'm passionate about, got some work experience, my first flying job, and the same licences and ratings as everyone else. There are quite a few ways to get to where you want to be. Do lots of research and explore your options thoroughly.

I was never all that involved in the program's selection process. They expect successful applicants to be prepared for the costs, but to my knowledge it isn't one of the selection/screening criteria. As far as I know, the selection process is mostly designed to find students who are determined and capable enough to finish the program. It can be quite taxing, as it requires you to complete quite a bit in a relatively short time frame (I think the entire program duration is something like 16 months- not all of that is flying). There were days where I did 2 flights and a sim with some of my IATPL students before they went off to attend 4 hours of ground school.
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by HD9113 »

RoAF-Mig21 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:08 am
HD9113 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:39 am I believe the majority of you have an ultimate goal of getting into an airliner ASAP.


It seems to be the norm. It's great to know you have realized that early on in your training. With that goal in mind the answer is simple: Get to a regional (that has some sort of flow) to a major carrier. The path there is the tricky part and the reality a little harsh, as you will face fierce competition.

Yes, the path of self-funded and logging hours for being a commercial pilot is new to me. I am from somewhere in Asia that we have a completely airline-funded cadet pilot program, that once you pass all the intense selection processes your training fee will be paid by the airline and a job offer as a Second Officer (SO) on the big aircrafts long haul flight (A330,A350,777...). After several years being an SO, they will be promoted to be an FO. Have been preparing for this program for so many years and build connection in the company, was ready to apply once graduate from university. However things ruined by COVID and some situation somehow makes me want to move to Canada and start a new life. But it is really out of the comfort zone to embrace the challenges.

HD9113 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:39 am Did some research on iATPL programme in Brampton Flight Center (BFM), it stated that "Successful students who have completed 250 hours of total flying, and have achieved a minimum cumulative score of 80% on the ATPL exams are eligible to participate in the selection process for direct entry to first officer positions at Jazz". It sounds perfect to me so I'm wondering


Doesn't sound so perfect to me. It seems just a nice way the school is selling its program. I haven't heard of anyone at Jazz that came from the BFM. If they did, I haven't heard of it. Jazz is well connected with Seneca and even their students are strictly selected; not all of them are hired.

So any idea is it really small portion of your newly joined colleagues are "250hours FO", even i believe the trend is increasing?


HD9113 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:39 am 2) Some threads say that the selection process of the BFM iATPL program is basically easy since its about $$$. But from BFM's iATPL info video on youtube, only around 30 out of 100 applicants were selected into the program. Is the selection process that tough? Are those who failed to admit the program having financial issues perhaps?


Are you saying 30% of the BFM iATPL program were hired by Jazz, or selected for the interview?

Nah, its 30% acceptance rate for iATPL at 1:09 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aqoxD_9c7c



HD9113 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:39 am I also discovered another program that has been temporary suspended due to COVID - Jazz Approach, anyone know more about the selection process of it before covid? Not much threads are talking about this program as well as CAE's page.



While I understand your desire to get to Jazz as soon as possible, be careful "investing" your money into an iATPL program that offers you something unrealistic. The sure way to get there is get your licenses, get some relevant experience under your belt and apply. The time I spent in the Arctic flying King Airs, B1900s and Lears gave me the tools to be a better pilot at Jazz, not just with the flying aspect, but also with CRM and decision making. Having that piece of paper in your hand doesn't make you a good pilot. It's only a ticket to start learning.

So what is the most minimum years you have heard from different pilot stories, to obtain PPL+CPL?

Remember what I said earlier:
You have to be realistic of whom you're competing with

Good luck
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HD9113
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by HD9113 »

Ozinater wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:16 pm
HD9113 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:39 am I believe the majority of you have an ultimate goal of getting into an airliner ASAP.
Did some research on iATPL programme in Brampton Flight Center (BFM), it stated that "Successful students who have completed 250 hours of total flying, and have achieved a minimum cumulative score of 80% on the ATPL exams are eligible to participate in the selection process for direct entry to first officer positions at Jazz". It sounds perfect to me so I'm wondering
1) There is a lot of negative threads talking about iATPL is a scam, and only super outstanding graduates will have an interview chance to Jazz. But from the text above it seems not that unachievable. Does anyone have an idea about what portion of the class could get an interview chance for Jazz?
2) Some threads say that the selection process of the BFM iATPL program is basically easy since its about $$$. But from BFM's iATPL info video on youtube, only around 30 out of 100 applicants were selected into the program. Is the selection process that tough? Are those who failed to admit the program having financial issues perhaps?
3) It says after graduating from the program, a frozen ATPL will be allocated. But I wonder for those "successful" candidates who work in Jazz afterwards, do they fly as an FO without an "unfrozen" ATPL? It doesn't make sense.

I also discovered another program that has been temporary suspended due to COVID - Jazz Approach, anyone know more about the selection process of it before covid? Not much threads are talking about this program as well as CAE's page.
I would strongly advise against viewing the IATPL program as "the fastest way to get into an airliner". Suffice it to say you will be punishing yourself if you predicate your success on whether or not you make it to an airline upon graduating. Every flight school/college that has a partnership with Jazz, of which there are several (BFC, Seneca, Waterloo, Mount Royal, Conestoga, Confed, Western, Air Richelieu etc etc), will probably mention on their website that eligible graduates from their program may be given an interview at Jazz. The opportunity may exist, but that does not mean you are guaranteed a job as an airline FO, let alone an interview, even if you are "super outstanding". As previously mentioned, you are competing against recent graduates from other schools, as well as people from different flying backgrounds. There are people in hiring pools or who received offers of employment at various regional airlines almost two years ago, who have their ATPL in-hand or have the required PIC time to obtain it in short order.

I can't say I know anyone in the last few years of graduating classes who went directly to Jazz. There are a number of BFC graduates who worked as instructors, aerial survey pilots, or at various 703/704 companies prior to moving on to places like Jazz/Sky Regional/Encore/Porter and other 705 gigs. Most of the "recent" (i.e. pre-COVID) Jazz college hires I know of are from Seneca, some from UWaterloo/Conestoga (not all immediately after graduating), and a handful from Mount Royal.

The program is what you make of it. BFC is a great school with well-established college programs. Like any post secondary aviation program, it requires a significant financial commitment. Whether or not it's worth it is up to you to determine. I didn't go that route since I had already started flight training before university, I just continued flying while doing my degree. I worked and flew a bunch during my summer off, then was able to use my earnings from the co-op terms I did as an undergrad to offset the costs of flight training. Since I was a self-paced student and didn't need to complete things in any particular order, I did the instructor rating right after my CPL and began working as an instructor in my final year of university, then did the multi/multi-IFR after a few hundred hours of instructing. It worked out well. I ended up saving a significant amount of money by keeping my training self-paced, got a non-aviation degree in something I'm passionate about, got some work experience, my first flying job, and the same licences and ratings as everyone else. There are quite a few ways to get to where you want to be. Do lots of research and explore your options thoroughly.

I was never all that involved in the program's selection process. They expect successful applicants to be prepared for the costs, but to my knowledge it isn't one of the selection/screening criteria. As far as I know, the selection process is mostly designed to find students who are determined and capable enough to finish the program. It can be quite taxing, as it requires you to complete quite a bit in a relatively short time frame (I think the entire program duration is something like 16 months- not all of that is flying). There were days where I did 2 flights and a sim with some of my IATPL students before they went off to attend 4 hours of ground school.
The Jazz APP pathway indeed is fierce compared to other candidates. But for the Jazz Approach (by CAE) I believe it is a program that you pay all the fees and once up to standard you will be positioned as an FO?
https://www.cae.com/civil-aviation/beco ... -approach/

What a story of your flying. I have also read other threads from other members in this forum about their path from 0 to commercial pilot, seems it is either being an instructor or go North. Is getting an instructor job in GTA difficult so that people leaving their family and go North being a ramp agent for years just for a right hand seat?
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by I WAS Pez »

HD9113 wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:36 am What a story of your flying. I have also read other threads from other members in this forum about their path from 0 to commercial pilot, seems it is either being an instructor or go North. Is getting an instructor job in GTA difficult so that people leaving their family and go North being a ramp agent for years just for a right hand seat?
The GTA, while heavily populated, has only a fraction of the aviation activity outside of the big 705s that the rest of Canada does. This is a big country, with a LOT of aviation, and LOTS to see. More of it North and West than around the GTA.
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by flaminghotdog »

HD9113 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:39 am I believe the majority of you have an ultimate goal of getting into an airliner ASAP.
Did some research on iATPL programme in Brampton Flight Center (BFM), it stated that "Successful students who have completed 250 hours of total flying, and have achieved a minimum cumulative score of 80% on the ATPL exams are eligible to participate in the selection process for direct entry to first officer positions at Jazz". It sounds perfect to me so I'm wondering
1) There is a lot of negative threads talking about iATPL is a scam, and only super outstanding graduates will have an interview chance to Jazz. But from the text above it seems not that unachievable. Does anyone have an idea about what portion of the class could get an interview chance for Jazz?
2) Some threads say that the selection process of the BFM iATPL program is basically easy since its about $$$. But from BFM's iATPL info video on youtube, only around 30 out of 100 applicants were selected into the program. Is the selection process that tough? Are those who failed to admit the program having financial issues perhaps?
3) It says after graduating from the program, a frozen ATPL will be allocated. But I wonder for those "successful" candidates who work in Jazz afterwards, do they fly as an FO without an "unfrozen" ATPL? It doesn't make sense.

I also discovered another program that has been temporary suspended due to COVID - Jazz Approach, anyone know more about the selection process of it before covid? Not much threads are talking about this program as well as CAE's page.
Ok so first off iAtpl programmes are marketed for the schools so it will sell you dreams using words like "guarantee" or "direct path" etc etc, secondly the cost advertised is not what you're going to be spending, I believe they advertise $80,000 however my associate paid $133,000 and more people I interacted at Brampton paid north of 100k. I did it self paced, and all in cost me 54,489.85 and this is ppl,cpl,multi, multi ifr and instructor rating ( yes i keep a excel spread sheet of every single flight i did and the cost of each one lol). Thirdly only the top TWO candidates from each program per school across the country gets an interview with jazz so just because you're in the program means you get a guarantee an interview and the competition is tough so if you get 80 and someone gets 85 guess what? and guys usually get in the low to mid 90's on exams so good luck trying to beat that, then trying to beat the top two candidates from other schools across the country.

It really boils down what you want and risk vs reward, do you want to spend double to almost triple the cost to get the same training just to write your A's a couple hundred hours earlier with a slim chance to get an interview which if you flunk you're not getting in, or spend a fraction of the money and get experience instructing and flying up north and coming back to the same jazz every else paid north of 100k to get to and by the time you come back you'd have, if not the same, but probably more hours than the guys that got in at 250 and definitely more experience in terms of hands and feet skill.

Also from another financial standpoint you spend north of 100k to do the iATPL and you finish with 100hrs and lets say you have 100hrs pic time from your training, and you have 150hrs still to build to get the atpl requirement, lets use the cost of the cheapest flight school 150 (DFC) that $130x150x13% is an additional $22,000 you'll have to fork out to get your pic requirements ( yes yes i know you could get block time but you still have pay for fuel which is highly variable depends on what airport you go to.)

If I had to do it all over again I still wouldn't go the iaptl route because for me personally i wouldnt spend that money for little reward. the choice is yours, ask questions visit schools talk to current students in the programme and people who went through it and formulate your own opinions.

cheers!
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qwe221sd
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by qwe221sd »

I think Jazz approach is the best option for your goal.
I am planing to go to the program after recovery but I don't know how many people they recruited for a batch before. Does anyone can tell me?
thanks.
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HD9113
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by HD9113 »

qwe221sd wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:14 am I think Jazz approach is the best option for your goal.
I am planing to go to the program after recovery but I don't know how many people they recruited for a batch before. Does anyone can tell me?
thanks.
from this thread :
viewtopic.php?t=135540

Someone stated that initial intake was 6+6 (2 batches), but still not much info. about it whether it is the recruitment process being strict that makes the number low or number of applicants being low.

I really appreciate if more info. about this program will be disclosed since I have browsed through all networks and seems no clue.
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I WAS Pez
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Re: The iATPL programme in Brampton and Jazz Approach

Post by I WAS Pez »

HD9113 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:00 pm
qwe221sd wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:14 am I think Jazz approach is the best option for your goal.
I am planing to go to the program after recovery but I don't know how many people they recruited for a batch before. Does anyone can tell me?
thanks.
from this thread :
viewtopic.php?t=135540

Someone stated that initial intake was 6+6 (2 batches), but still not much info. about it whether it is the recruitment process being strict that makes the number low or number of applicants being low.

I really appreciate if more info. about this program will be disclosed since I have browsed through all networks and seems no clue.
So... from the quoted thread, that's the European style pay to fly type arrangement where you pay for your own type rating....which is not normally done in Canada.

There's a lot of aviation in this country. And very few folks will have you pay for a type rating directly (though there are bonds and promisory notes, of course).

I'm not an airline pilot...but I'd also never pay for a type rating or to sit in seat working for someone. If you meet the requirements and like you, they can hire you, train you, and pay you.

Maybe I'm naive, but if I'm working for someone, I fully expect to be paid. And to have job specific training provided...and be paid for it.
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