New Bases

[BigBird]

So I read somewhere that Flair is looking to add new bases in 2022. Anybody knows if YUL is in the plans?

[Soyer]

Montreal will be a base by the summer.

[tbaylx]

So I read somewhere that Flair is looking to add new bases in 2022. Anybody knows if YUL is in the plans?

Montreal has been posted for a base bid beginning July 2022 with 2 aircraft. I anticipate that some of those positions will be filled internally however there will be external positions available in YUL for new hires in 2022

[BigBird]

Thanks

[flyguy2135]

Does anyone know if there are plans to hire Fo’s without a type rating in the near future?

[tbaylx]

Does anyone know if there are plans to hire Fo’s without a type rating in the near future?

Yes, most of the new hires do not have type ratings. We prioritized type-rated pilots for the January class due to training capacity considerations. The remainder of the classes from February onwards will mostly be comprised of non type rated candidates

[JetA Burner]

Where are the bulk of the Feb/March new hires planned to be based? Is YKF a desirable base?

I understand this may be a difficult question to answer given base bids/seniority. That being said, I assume there is an idea where the tails/network expansion will be based around.

[rooster]

Makes me wonder how many of the guys who looked down and laughed at Flair during their ULCC transition, found themselves out of work in the pandemic and are desperately applying for jobs with them now

Oh the irony of that...

Impressive growth though. This is good for the industry. I've flown a few different Flair MAX's and the interiors are all a bit different haha. Great crews though! They seem happy. Flair must be doing something right.

[flyguy2135]

What are the base options now for Flair?

[tbaylx]

Where are the bulk of the Feb/March new hires planned to be based? Is YKF a desirable base?

I understand this may be a difficult question to answer given base bids/seniority. That being said, I assume there is an idea where the tails/network expansion will be based around.

There are openings throughout the bases as we add aircraft and existing pilots move around. There isn't one base that won't have positions available. YKF will gain additional aircraft and there will be openings there most certainly.

[tbaylx]

What are the base options now for Flair?

CYVR, CYXX, CYEG, CYYZ, CYKF, CYOW and Montreal in summer 2022.

[Tolip]

Fast forward two years and flair will be shutting down. I fear porter will aswell. Taking on crazed explosive expansion right now is such a bad idea. Aircanada and westjet are offering super low prices, almost a price match to flair.. how are these airlines going to attract enough passengers to fill all these planes? With omicron now, looming additional restrictions and probably harder times ahead. I fear bad times ahead for these brave\foolish airlines who are increasing debt right now. Probably why flair is being sued by it's own shareholders

[co-joe]

Where are the bulk of the Feb/March new hires planned to be based? Is YKF a desirable base?

I understand this may be a difficult question to answer given base bids/seniority. That being said, I assume there is an idea where the tails/network expansion will be based around.

If you live in Guelph, Kitchener/ Waterloo, Cambridge area I'd say it's extremely desirable. Drive up, park, walk in, and off you go. YXX has the same kind of feel where you can park and 5 minutes later be at the gate, compared to at least half an hour in YVR/YYZ plus security delays. I'f you're commuting, then I'd steer towards the bigger cities where crash pads, hotels, and transit are an option like YYZ and YVR. It all depends what you want.

[flying4dollars]

Fast forward two years and flair will be shutting down. I fear porter will aswell. Taking on crazed explosive expansion right now is such a bad idea. Aircanada and westjet are offering super low prices, almost a price match to flair.. how are these airlines going to attract enough passengers to fill all these planes? With omicron now, looming additional restrictions and probably harder times ahead. I fear bad times ahead for these brave\foolish airlines who are increasing debt right now. Probably why flair is being sued by it's own shareholders

Heard this since I started in 2017. Fast forward to 2021 (almost 22), where we survived the duopoly in their prime, and the pandemic. There is a lot of factors that most of the critics aren't considering, like how cheap the leases are on our MAX's, the contracts we've signed with airports and vendors etc. AC and WJ can price match, but their costs doing the same routes are MUCH higher, and right now with airplanes still grounded, neither of them can afford to compete on EVERY route we fly.

We'll be fine. Carry on folks..

[faculties11]

Can someone give an idea about how the flights loads have been at Flair in the past few months?

[Tolip]

Fast forward two years and flair will be shutting down. I fear porter will aswell. Taking on crazed explosive expansion right now is such a bad idea. Aircanada and westjet are offering super low prices, almost a price match to flair.. how are these airlines going to attract enough passengers to fill all these planes? With omicron now, looming additional restrictions and probably harder times ahead. I fear bad times ahead for these brave\foolish airlines who are increasing debt right now. Probably why flair is being sued by it's own shareholders

Heard this since I started in 2017. Fast forward to 2021 (almost 22), where we survived the duopoly in their prime, and the pandemic. There is a lot of factors that most of the critics aren't considering, like how cheap the leases are on our MAX's, the contracts we've signed with airports and vendors etc. AC and WJ can price match, but their costs doing the same routes are MUCH higher, and right now with airplanes still grounded, neither of them can afford to compete on EVERY route we fly.

We'll be fine. Carry on folks..

I'm sure your right, it's very hard to ACTUALLy kill an airline off completely. I mean even air Georgian is out their somewhere plotting their return (eww). But that being said surviving isn't thriving, they wont dissapear in two years. But I expect drastically slowing down to out right cancelling new plane orders. Probably putting all new pilot hires into an endless pool awaiting a training date.

You make it seem like fair is some underdog story that's been fighting the good fight since 2017, but I'll tell you, I used to fly out of cyxx. And every few months they were operating under a different company name, or fighting off closing down completely, changing CEOs like used underwear. And even back then in PRIME travel times, when they only operated what (two planes?) They still were on the ropes.. But sure, somehow increasing their company debt 1000 fold during the most uncertain airline periods in all of history... I'm sure it will work out just great.

And in the competition side of things, your wrong that flairs model can allow them to operate at reduced fairs for longer then AC or westjet. These majormairlines have consolidated costs revenue and completely re constructed their operations to better deal with the uncertainty of the pandemic. And at the end of of day they have the money and the buying power to outlast any small newly forming airline.

But I'm no profit, just a gut feeling. That expanding RN is a bad idea, I see their thinking and reasoning for doing it.. but risky... very risky..

[flying4dollars]

Fast forward two years and flair will be shutting down. I fear porter will aswell. Taking on crazed explosive expansion right now is such a bad idea. Aircanada and westjet are offering super low prices, almost a price match to flair.. how are these airlines going to attract enough passengers to fill all these planes? With omicron now, looming additional restrictions and probably harder times ahead. I fear bad times ahead for these brave\foolish airlines who are increasing debt right now. Probably why flair is being sued by it's own shareholders

Heard this since I started in 2017. Fast forward to 2021 (almost 22), where we survived the duopoly in their prime, and the pandemic. There is a lot of factors that most of the critics aren't considering, like how cheap the leases are on our MAX's, the contracts we've signed with airports and vendors etc. AC and WJ can price match, but their costs doing the same routes are MUCH higher, and right now with airplanes still grounded, neither of them can afford to compete on EVERY route we fly.

We'll be fine. Carry on folks..

I'm sure your right, it's very hard to ACTUALLy kill an airline off completely. I mean even air Georgian is out their somewhere plotting their return (eww). But that being said surviving isn't thriving, they wont dissapear in two years. But I expect drastically slowing down to out right cancelling new plane orders. Probably putting all new pilot hires into an endless pool awaiting a training date.

You make it seem like fair is some underdog story that's been fighting the good fight since 2017, but I'll tell you, I used to fly out of cyxx. And every few months they were operating under a different company name, or fighting off closing down completely, changing CEOs like used underwear. And even back then in PRIME travel times, when they only operated what (two planes?) They still were on the ropes.. But sure, somehow increasing their company debt 1000 fold during the most uncertain airline periods in all of history... I'm sure it will work out just great.

And in the competition side of things, your wrong that flairs model can allow them to operate at reduced fairs for longer then AC or westjet. These majormairlines have consolidated costs revenue and completely re constructed their operations to better deal with the uncertainty of the pandemic. And at the end of of day they have the money and the buying power to outlast any small newly forming airline.

But I'm no profit, just a gut feeling. That expanding RN is a bad idea, I see their thinking and reasoning for doing it.. but risky... very risky..

The definition of an underdog:

a competitor thought to have little chance of winning a fight or contest.

So if Flair isn’t that, then what is it lol? Everyone doubts the airline, every year I hear we won’t make it to the end of the year.

Also, Flair never operated under any other name, ever. So I’m not sure where you got that from.

You are right, there’s risk involved in what the airline is doing. There’s always risk. Encore, 787s at WJ, new fleet tore at Porter etc. the reward is what the airline and its staff are after. And if it succeeds, the reward will be pretty huge. To me, that’s worth it.

[Tolip]

Heard this since I started in 2017. Fast forward to 2021 (almost 22), where we survived the duopoly in their prime, and the pandemic. There is a lot of factors that most of the critics aren't considering, like how cheap the leases are on our MAX's, the contracts we've signed with airports and vendors etc. AC and WJ can price match, but their costs doing the same routes are MUCH higher, and right now with airplanes still grounded, neither of them can afford to compete on EVERY route we fly.

We'll be fine. Carry on folks..

I'm sure your right, it's very hard to ACTUALLy kill an airline off completely. I mean even air Georgian is out their somewhere plotting their return (eww). But that being said surviving isn't thriving, they wont dissapear in two years. But I expect drastically slowing down to out right cancelling new plane orders. Probably putting all new pilot hires into an endless pool awaiting a training date.

You make it seem like fair is some underdog story that's been fighting the good fight since 2017, but I'll tell you, I used to fly out of cyxx. And every few months they were operating under a different company name, or fighting off closing down completely, changing CEOs like used underwear. And even back then in PRIME travel times, when they only operated what (two planes?) They still were on the ropes.. But sure, somehow increasing their company debt 1000 fold during the most uncertain airline periods in all of history... I'm sure it will work out just great.

And in the competition side of things, your wrong that flairs model can allow them to operate at reduced fairs for longer then AC or westjet. These majormairlines have consolidated costs revenue and completely re constructed their operations to better deal with the uncertainty of the pandemic. And at the end of of day they have the money and the buying power to outlast any small newly forming airline.

But I'm no profit, just a gut feeling. That expanding RN is a bad idea, I see their thinking and reasoning for doing it.. but risky... very risky..

The definition of an underdog:

a competitor thought to have little chance of winning a fight or contest.

So if Flair isn’t that, then what is it lol? Everyone doubts the airline, every year I hear we won’t make it to the end of the year.

Also, Flair never operated under any other name, ever. So I’m not sure where you got that from.

You are right, there’s risk involved in what the airline is doing. There’s always risk. Encore, 787s at WJ, new fleet tore at Porter etc. the reward is what the airline and its staff are after. And if it succeeds, the reward will be pretty huge. To me, that’s worth it.

Your right, I guess it is kinda an underdog story lol. Which like you said means that by definition they have a very low chance of success... which is my point also. So we are kinda on the same page with that one.

And actually I'm doubting how much you actually know about flairs history now. As it didn't just start in 2017, they operated under the banner of "new leaf" prior to being branded flair in 2017. And before flair bought new leaf they actually operated a super tiny unsuccessful airline for over a decade b4 that. Tendering on banrupsky the whole time. They just want everyone to think they started in 2017, but it's not true. It's called rebranding. Something bad companies try to do to trick people. I guess it's working.

And for what your saying about poters expansion, I agree. It's the same thing flair is doing, and I fear they will regret it. We are just one more travel restriction away from airline chaos again. I know that I amndeffinitly feeling nervous again. But what your saying about westjet is wrong, westjet didnt just randomly expand like flair is, they bought 1 or 2 767s did a trial for years to test the viability and loads of operating wide body aircraft, found the model to be successful then carefully and slowly built up the 787 fleet. It was very calculated and well thought out. Not like that flair is doing at all.

Anyways, we will see. Im a skeptic by nature. Which in aviation is usually the current mindset to have. Aviation; especially now; is completely volatile. We should all manage our expectations of how these next few years are gunna go

[flying4dollars]

I'm sure your right, it's very hard to ACTUALLy kill an airline off completely. I mean even air Georgian is out their somewhere plotting their return (eww). But that being said surviving isn't thriving, they wont dissapear in two years. But I expect drastically slowing down to out right cancelling new plane orders. Probably putting all new pilot hires into an endless pool awaiting a training date.

You make it seem like fair is some underdog story that's been fighting the good fight since 2017, but I'll tell you, I used to fly out of cyxx. And every few months they were operating under a different company name, or fighting off closing down completely, changing CEOs like used underwear. And even back then in PRIME travel times, when they only operated what (two planes?) They still were on the ropes.. But sure, somehow increasing their company debt 1000 fold during the most uncertain airline periods in all of history... I'm sure it will work out just great.

And in the competition side of things, your wrong that flairs model can allow them to operate at reduced fairs for longer then AC or westjet. These majormairlines have consolidated costs revenue and completely re constructed their operations to better deal with the uncertainty of the pandemic. And at the end of of day they have the money and the buying power to outlast any small newly forming airline.

But I'm no profit, just a gut feeling. That expanding RN is a bad idea, I see their thinking and reasoning for doing it.. but risky... very risky..

The definition of an underdog:

a competitor thought to have little chance of winning a fight or contest.

So if Flair isn’t that, then what is it lol? Everyone doubts the airline, every year I hear we won’t make it to the end of the year.

Also, Flair never operated under any other name, ever. So I’m not sure where you got that from.

You are right, there’s risk involved in what the airline is doing. There’s always risk. Encore, 787s at WJ, new fleet tore at Porter etc. the reward is what the airline and its staff are after. And if it succeeds, the reward will be pretty huge. To me, that’s worth it.

Your right, I guess it is kinda an underdog story lol. Which like you said means that by definition they have a very low chance of success... which is my point also. So we are kinda on the same page with that one.

And actually I'm doubting how much you actually know about flairs history now. As it didn't just start in 2017, they operated under the banner of "new leaf" prior to being branded flair in 2017. And before flair bought new leaf they actually operated a super tiny unsuccessful airline for over a decade b4 that. Tendering on banrupsky the whole time. They just want everyone to think they started in 2017, but it's not true. It's called rebranding. Something bad companies try to do to trick people. I guess it's working.

And for what your saying about poters expansion, I agree. It's the same thing flair is doing, and I fear they will regret it. We are just one more travel restriction away from airline chaos again. I know that I amndeffinitly feeling nervous again. But what your saying about westjet is wrong, westjet didnt just randomly expand like flair is, they bought 1 or 2 767s did a trial for years to test the viability and loads of operating wide body aircraft, found the model to be successful then carefully and slowly built up the 787 fleet. It was very calculated and well thought out. Not like that flair is doing at all.

Anyways, we will see. Im a skeptic by nature. Which in aviation is usually the current mindset to have. Aviation; especially now; is completely volatile. We should all manage our expectations of how these next few years are gunna go

Oh I definitely know Flair's history. I am a BC boy and have had friends work long before they turned ULCC. They have always been Flair. They started doing charters and workforce transportation. They didn't rebrand as New Leaf. They simply wet leased to them, which at the time was strictly a ULCC travel company. Flair then acquired them in 2017 out due to debt owed to them and made the transition to a full ULCC airline, which is when I joined.

The airline has since gone through a 3 CEO's from Jim Rodgers (founding owner) to Jim Scott, to now Stephen Jones. And while there has been an identity crisis pre-Jones, the airline has finally found it. The growth is real, the investor support is real, and there's no signs of slowing down. Even with the current pandemic. I tire a bit of the Jetsgo comparison. The rules have changed, we have a much more efficient and modern operation compared to them, which helps keep costs low and there are more travellers now than there were in their era.

I'm no fortune teller, and time will certainly tell, but the feeling around here is pretty optimistic. Can't ask for much more than that I suppose.

[Tbayer2021]

What exactly is the point of criticizing anyone for taking a job at Flair? Because they may not be around in a few year? We all chose the wrong profession if thats the case. It's truly amazing to see the first reaction to more opportunity for pilots is a negative one. No wonder Canadian pilots are the worst paid and compensated around the world, only crab mentality to go around these parts.