AIFs question when jumpseating

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mijbil
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AIFs question when jumpseating

Post by mijbil »

I just listed for J/S (in quite some time) and see a total under "Total government taxes". It's less than I expected (not that I'm complaining). I just sent the following off to the CYYC airport authority. A response may be forthcoming at some point.
"Online it says that the AIF is NOT charged for airline employees “on business” .If I am commuting from where I live, it is not on airline business as they magically believe that I reside in my home base (I do not), but it is on business (getting to or from my domicile to or from my airline base). Is the AIF charged for airline employees commuting to or from work on their own?"
In the meantime, does anyone on here know if we are charged AIFs these days when commuting? Last I looked (in the summer IIRC) a friend at WS was being charged $65 AIF + other taxes and fees to go from YYC to YYZ.
This was his charge
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IMG_0455.jpeg (78.25 KiB) Viewed 3535 times
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redder12
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Re: AIFs question when jumpseating

Post by redder12 »

I will be interested in the response from YYC. I have contacted ATAC asking the same question, and I am still waiting on a reply a year later...

Online it says that the AIF is NOT charged for airline employees “on business”.
All the details about the AIF (Airport Improvement Fee) can be found on AIF Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) (http://cfcanada.fticonsulting.com/skyse ... Donald.pdf). Specifically, the paragraph we are talking about is 11.4;
The obligation imposed by an Airport pursuant to this MOA upon Signatory Air Carriers to collect and remit an AIF will not apply to airline employees travelling on business. For greater certainty, this includes duty travel of crews of one air carrier on another air carrier.
This is part of a class action lawsuit by an AC pilot proposed on March, 2019. If won, select airport authorities would be required to compensate all airline crews the AIF/PFF fees (since 2004). You can check the class action here: https://evolinklaw.com/wp-content/uploa ... iled-1.pdf. The AIF MOA was effective January, 2004. I tried to find the new AIF MOA, but ATAC does not respond to their Emails

I am not advocating it, but I believe you can get around the sky-high YYZ AIF by routing YYC - YYZ - YHZ (provided the stopover in YYZ is less than 4 hours you should not be charged the AIF) and then miss the YYZ - YHZ part.

I have not been charged AIF when I list at the kiosk (Air Transat and Sunwing).
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co-joe
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Re: AIFs question when jumpseating

Post by co-joe »

Up until a year ago AC was not charging the fees for jumpseat but WS was, then all of a sudden AC started charging as well. It's a good $500/ month out of my pocket so I joined the class action lawsuit but there has yet to be any promising news.
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garfield
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Re: AIFs question when jumpseating

Post by garfield »

Yep unbelievable, I used to pay 10 bucks to my hometown, now it's close to 50...
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dhc#
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Re: AIFs question when jumpseating

Post by dhc# »

Going to be far fewer commuters in the near future as cost increases such as AIF's take a bigger bite out of a salary.
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mijbil
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Re: AIFs question when jumpseating

Post by mijbil »

redder12 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:54 pm I will be interested in the response from YYC. I have contacted ATAC asking the same question, and I am still waiting on a reply a year later...
Hi Redder and all others interested in this. Here is what I got back from a fairly helpful guy in the Calgary airport authority.

Me:Good day,
Online it says that the AIF is NOT charged for airline employees “on business” .If I am commuting from where I live, it is not on airline business as they magically believe that I reside in my home base (I do not), but it is on business (getting to or from my domicile to or from my airline base). Is the AIF charged for airline employees commuting to or from work on their own?
Thanks for the reply,

Them:Good morning,
Thank you for your message.
Your email has been forwarded to the right department.
Kind regards,
YYC
Dey Asis

Them #2 :Can you let me know what invoice # this is in reference to?
Thanks,
Michael Canas
AERONAUTICAL BILLING/ ACCOUNTING

Me:Good day Michael,
There is no invoice other than a booking reference / PNR and a ticket number and I suppose a record of charges which would look like this:
Total Government taxes 12.73 CAD
- CA4 7.12 CAD
- SQ 5.00 CAD
- XG8 0.36 CAD
- XG9 0.25 CAD
myIDTravel Fee 2.05 CAD
It is in regards to commuting pilots being charged an AIF when commuting on their own dime. I may be based at a large centre like Calgary or Vancouver but live elsewhere for economic and or family reasons and thus commute. Can you tell me if the AIF is charged to us when we book through a site called MyIDtravel (run by Lufthansa) for commuter travel? Is it part of CA4 , SQ,XG8, or XG9 as in the example?
Thanks for getting back and have a Merry Christmas,

Them:Unfortunately this booking has nothing to do with YYC airport as I have not heard or seen anything on MyIDTravel.
The fees noted are not to do with the airport. You may need to contact the site you booked this from.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Thanks,
Michael Canas

Me:Thanks Micheal for the quick response,
Are you able to tell me if the AIF is charged on all travellers or not and what the exemptions are and how those exemptions are specifically defined?
Thanks,

Them:Not a problem.
At YYC we bill AIF to all revenue passengers (but this is something the airlines report to us). The way they sell tickets may be different.
Thanks!
Michael Canas



I left it at that. From what I can tell, it looks like the magic formula is to not be charged even a token fare like WS did in the past. Will all the airlines participating in the JS program look to make the cost $0.00 to make costs less for commuters? TBD. It can be done. First Air was excellent. It was literally free. Not a cent. I think that the airline ops departments would like to be helpful to commuters but I am speculating that perhaps some beancounter decides that a even a token fare must be charged and that triggers the AIFs etc. As more people decide to go with their pandemic plan B as their new plan A (ie quitting as a few have that I know) and as suddenly the mythical pilot shortage becomes a reality, as we are seeing south of the border, then maybe this AIF business will see some more heat and light from the beancounters as they realize that the pool of experienced pilots is not as deep as it was in the past and "how can we make it better?". Even better would be if the USA CASS program were to come into being up here as it is in the states. Personally I'd rather perch on on an actual jumpseat with a coffee watching how another outfit conducts ops, and then have good chat once in cruise, than sit in the trunk with all the farting and snorting bad travellers and their howling children. To be fair, many are good travelers but it's the few who make it a misery for the many....anyhow, thread drift. Back to the topic of AIFs. IMO these should not exist for commuting aircrew (pilots and FA's) but I expect that only a prolonged labour shortage with this as one of the causes will make this go away for good.

Over to the crowd for their comments and Happy New Year.
Mijbil, the otter of Camusfearna.
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goldeneagle
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Re: AIFs question when jumpseating

Post by goldeneagle »

mijbil wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:20 pm Back to the topic of AIFs. IMO these should not exist for commuting aircrew (pilots and FA's)
So my neighbor commutes on airlines, two week out stint. He takes regular airlines to the point where company provided transportation picks them up and on to the job site. So his question to you is simple, what makes you so special that you shoudn't have to pay the travel fees to go to/from work, while everybody else does ?
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Dash.Trash
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Re: AIFs question when jumpseating

Post by Dash.Trash »

goldeneagle wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:43 am
mijbil wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:20 pm Back to the topic of AIFs. IMO these should not exist for commuting aircrew (pilots and FA's)
So my neighbor commutes on airlines, two week out stint. He takes regular airlines to the point where company provided transportation picks them up and on to the job site. So his question to you is simple, what makes you so special that you shoudn't have to pay the travel fees to go to/from work, while everybody else does ?
Taken from the statement of claim on the AIF class action lawsuit, the following sections of the ATAC MOA on AIFs:

11.4 The obligation imposed by an Airport pursuant to this MOA upon Signatory Air Carriers to collect and remit an AIF will not apply to airline employees travelling on business. For greater certainty, this includes duty travel of crews of one air carrier on another air carrier.
,.

11.6. The obligation imposed by an Airport pursuant to this MOA upon Signatory Air Carriers to collect and remit an AIF will not apply to customers travelling on passes or other travel documents with discount codes ID/IN....
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redder12
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Re: AIFs question when jumpseating

Post by redder12 »

mijbil wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:20 pm
redder12 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:54 pm I will be interested in the response from YYC. I have contacted ATAC asking the same question, and I am still waiting on a reply a year later...
Hi Redder and all others interested in this. Here is what I got back from a fairly helpful guy in the Calgary airport authority...
Thanks for response, mijbil.

Jumpseat coordinators were exploring a Canadian version of CASS. However, I think the problem they ran into was creating such a database without help from the Government (from a financial aspect, data protection and communication between departments).

Probably the biggest problem is that the AIF MOA has been updated, but the document is nowhere to be found. It is hard to argue that we are being unjustifiably charged when we can only quote snippets of an outdated document that was published in 2004. Anyone have any ideas on where to find a the whole, updated AIF MOA?

Before 2016, there was no AIF charge for employees commuting through YYZ. Then GTAA 'informed all airlines operating at Toronto Pearson Airport that they must collect and remit Airport Improvement Fees (AIF) from employees travelling for leisure who are departing from or connecting through Toronto beginning March 1, 2016....The fees of $25.00 (plus $3.25 HST) for flights departing Toronto and $4.00 (plus $0.52 HST) for flights connecting through Toronto, match the fees charged to the public...'. The argument is that a commuter is travelling for leisure, and you are only working when you check-in at your base. And, for YYZ specifically, it is not a Signatory Carrier so the AIF MOA does not apply to them. However, they do have their own MOA which states AIF only applies to 'enplaned passengers', defined as '... departing passenger... which shall not include airline employees'. Again, if you want to see this document - you can't, it is locked away somewhere in a vault deep in YYZ.

With the constant increase in AIF's and charging it to everyone they can, it is no wonder certain airports are starting to look like art galleries with cascading waterfalls..
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termerair
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Re: AIFs question when jumpseating

Post by termerair »

With the constant increase in AIF's and charging it to everyone they can, it is no wonder certain airports are starting to look like art galleries with cascading waterfalls..
I had the exact opposite impression regarding the Airport Improvement Fees... Where is all this money being spent when you see the state of T3 in YYZ!

This topic is of the most importance for us commuters and it will be interesting to see what is the outcome of this class action!
co-joe wrote:Up until a year ago AC was not charging the fees for jumpseat but WS was, then all of a sudden AC started charging as well. It's a good $500/ month out of my pocket so I joined the class action lawsuit but there has yet to be any promising news.
Can you tell us how you did to join the class action...?
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co-joe
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Re: AIFs question when jumpseating

Post by co-joe »

Not really, I just registered my email on that web site. I have yet to see an update.
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redder12
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Re: AIFs question when jumpseating

Post by redder12 »

termerair wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 6:11 pm
With the constant increase in AIF's and charging it to everyone they can, it is no wonder certain airports are starting to look like art galleries with cascading waterfalls..
I had the exact opposite impression regarding the Airport Improvement Fees... Where is all this money being spent when you see the state of T3 in YYZ!
I can't comment on the disrepair of T3. My comment was regarding this

'The AIF’s are intended to fund airport capital improvements such as runways, terminal buildings and other air side facilities... Perhaps the most egregious
example of mission creep is found at the Kelowna International Airport (YLW). The Kelowna airport recently announced its plans to add a wine bar, a seasonal fruit display, and a car detailing service to its airport property.'
https://tc.canada.ca/sites/default/file ... ission.pdf
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