Quebec to allow covid positive health care workers to continue working

[TG]

Presumably, Karen knew the risks when she chose to not get vaccinated. Just like how people know the risks associated with smoking, but do it anyways.

Karen doesn't have the medical or virology expertise to judge that by herself so technically no, she doesn't know or realize the risk she is taking.

[ReserveTank]

When pilots forget they're just pilots...
No patient is intubated unless it is a necessity.

Stop thinking you possess either the mental capacity or requisite educational background to understand even the simplest level of the subject matter.

I'd like to see your stats that show that vaccinated people in Ontario are being intubated at a higher rate than the unvaccinated.

You claim their numbers make no sense, and provide none of your own.

I'm discussing a statistical anomaly that can be spotted with little effort. Rise in cases, but no corresponding curve? That's statistical ethics 101...bell curves be like dat. It was an odd argument to specify intubated cases when the original argument was vaxxed cases outpacing unvaxxed. Now, on the subject of ICU, the real question that's being dodged is how many cases are actually intubated out of absolute necessity. Then lies the third rail---How many cases are intubated due to comorbidity? Living a life in any combo of obese, cigarette smoking, alcoholic, drug abusing, diabetic, hypertensive, and many other self-induced disorders can net you a ventilator installation with a wide variety of otherwise mild illnesses. Been like that for a while, nothing new.

Nice try. I have a master in Language and Aeronautical Science. I have also earned certificates (at one of the best aviation universities on the planet) in air crash investigation and aeromedical factors. It's a bad look to project your own inadequacies on to others. If your expectations for yourself are low, that's not my problem--and it doesn't take away from my line of questioning.

Discussing statistical anomalies and ethics are basic concepts which are covered in year 1. The given data doesn't distribute normally. What specifically about that are you refuting? Did you try it yourself?

What regarding comorbidities are you refuting? Since 2020 has something changed with people who live an unhealthy lifestyle?

Now about intubation, it's not as if it were some magic.

[photofly]

the real question that's being dodged is how many cases are actually intubated out of absolute necessity. Then lies the third rail---How many cases are intubated due to comorbidity?

People are intubated because they can't breathe unaided; I don't think anyone can answer the question "but for this person's chronic condition, would their acute COVID infection have required them to be intubated?"


Intubation is a violently invasive procedure that requires the patient to be sedated, which carries its own risks, and is only done as a very last resort on the sickest of people. Someone - was it you? - was suggesting that hospitals (doctors at hospitals) were doing it merely to gain revenue or to meet some kind of quota. Seems very conspiratorial, and untrue, to me.

[kgb531]

So zero educational background on the subject matter then. You should know better. An opthamologist/GP/pathologist/cardiologist/stats PhD has no credentials to speak on the subject but you're somehow analyzing and proffering an opinion as though your education has any relevance because you took intro stats?
Thanks for your online studies.

When pilots forget they're just pilots...
No patient is intubated unless it is a necessity.

Stop thinking you possess either the mental capacity or requisite educational background to understand even the simplest level of the subject matter.

I'm discussing a statistical anomaly that can be spotted with little effort. Rise in cases, but no corresponding curve? That's statistical ethics 101...bell curves be like dat. It was an odd argument to specify intubated cases when the original argument was vaxxed cases outpacing unvaxxed. Now, on the subject of ICU, the real question that's being dodged is how many cases are actually intubated out of absolute necessity. Then lies the third rail---How many cases are intubated due to comorbidity? Living a life in any combo of obese, cigarette smoking, alcoholic, drug abusing, diabetic, hypertensive, and many other self-induced disorders can net you a ventilator installation with a wide variety of otherwise mild illnesses. Been like that for a while, nothing new.

Nice try. I have a master in Language and Aeronautical Science. I have also earned certificates (at one of the best aviation universities on the planet) in air crash investigation and aeromedical factors. It's a bad look to project your own inadequacies on to others. If your expectations for yourself are low, that's not my problem--and it doesn't take away from my line of questioning.

Discussing statistical anomalies and ethics are basic concepts which are covered in year 1. The given data doesn't distribute normally. What specifically about that are you refuting? Did you try it yourself?

What regarding comorbidities are you refuting? Since 2020 has something changed with people who live an unhealthy lifestyle?

Now about intubation, it's not as if it were some magic.

[pelmet]

"A lot of these doctors don't believe me."

COURTESY BRUCE TEDESCHI

Bruce Tedeschi, 64, Grand Haven, Mich.

Before the pandemic, Bruce Tedeschi was a fairly active guy. A retired biotech quality director, he enjoyed working on classic cars, fishing and woodworking.

Then, in January 2020, he was hit hard by a variety of bizarre symptoms. His blood pressure skyrocketed and doctors couldn't get it down. He had ringing in his ears, shortness of breath, stomach pain, digestive issues and nerve pain. He went from doctor to doctor, and no one could figure out the problem.

Tedeschi doesn't know for sure if it was COVID-19. At the time, most Americans hadn't heard of it, and there was no testing.

When Tedeschi's symptoms didn't resolve after a few months, he moved to Michigan to be closer to his family. In June, his brother tested positive for coronavirus. Tedeschi also ran a fever at the time, and his doctor advised him to quarantine.

His brother recovered quickly, but Tedeschi continued to experience problems: an irregular heartbeat, circulation problems, digestive issues, migraines, fatigue and nerve attacks.

Some doctors told him they didn't think his health issues could be the result of COVID-19 because he never developed a cough or serious respiratory symptoms. They ordered CAT scans, MRIs, swallowing tests and other screenings. Most were normal.

"I've been to so many doctors the past 14 months it will make your head spin,” Tedeschi says. “A lot of these doctors don't believe me. They would say, ‘Let me give you antidepressants.'”

At the end of August, Tedeschi finally persuaded a physician to give him an antibody test. It was positive – so at least he finally had confirmation he'd been infected with the coronavirus.

Since then, he has continued to see doctors and try medications. He says he has good days and bad days, but on the bad days, the nerve pain in his hips, back and legs can be excruciating. Even just walking is arduous. “Going to the grocery store is like a three-hour workout at the gym for me,” he says. “I can't stand or sit for a prolonged period.”

In February, Tedeschi saw a new doctor who says he may have a name for Tedeschi's condition: multisystem inflammatory syndrome in adults (MIS-A), a rare but serious condition tied to COVID-19. Only recently identified by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), it targets multiple organs and causes increased inflammation in the body.

The doctor referred Tedeschi to an infectious disease specialist for a definitive diagnosis and treatment. Tedeschi doesn't want to get his hopes up yet, but he has to admit it's promising, especially since there's a treatment for the condition.

"It could be the answer,” he says. “At least it's a start.”

[Vaticinator]

Karen doesn't have the medical or virology expertise to judge that by herself so technically no, she doesn't know or realize the risk she is taking.

You need to be a virology expert to understand what the potential symptoms of covid are?

[TG]

Karen doesn't have the medical or virology expertise to judge that by herself so technically no, she doesn't know or realize the risk she is taking.

You need to be a virology expert to understand what the potential symptoms of covid are?

You are right, so let me try to rephrase that.

As much as they think they do, Anti-Vax Karen or Joe Blow don’t have the IQ level to understand the efficiency of a vaccine.

[ReserveTank]

"A lot of these doctors don't believe me."

COURTESY BRUCE TEDESCHI

Bruce Tedeschi, 64, Grand Haven, Mich.

Before the pandemic, Bruce Tedeschi was a fairly active guy. A retired biotech quality director, he enjoyed working on classic cars, fishing and woodworking.

Then, in January 2020, he was hit hard by a variety of bizarre symptoms. His blood pressure skyrocketed and doctors couldn't get it down. He had ringing in his ears, shortness of breath, stomach pain, digestive issues and nerve pain. He went from doctor to doctor, and no one could figure out the problem.

Tedeschi doesn't know for sure if it was COVID-19. At the time, most Americans hadn't heard of it, and there was no testing.

When Tedeschi's symptoms didn't resolve after a few months, he moved to Michigan to be closer to his family. In June, his brother tested positive for coronavirus. Tedeschi also ran a fever at the time, and his doctor advised him to quarantine.

His brother recovered quickly, but Tedeschi continued to experience problems: an irregular heartbeat, circulation problems, digestive issues, migraines, fatigue and nerve attacks.

Some doctors told him they didn't think his health issues could be the result of COVID-19 because he never developed a cough or serious respiratory symptoms. They ordered CAT scans, MRIs, swallowing tests and other screenings. Most were normal.

"I've been to so many doctors the past 14 months it will make your head spin,” Tedeschi says. “A lot of these doctors don't believe me. They would say, ‘Let me give you antidepressants.'”

At the end of August, Tedeschi finally persuaded a physician to give him an antibody test. It was positive – so at least he finally had confirmation he'd been infected with the coronavirus.

Since then, he has continued to see doctors and try medications. He says he has good days and bad days, but on the bad days, the nerve pain in his hips, back and legs can be excruciating. Even just walking is arduous. “Going to the grocery store is like a three-hour workout at the gym for me,” he says. “I can't stand or sit for a prolonged period.”

In February, Tedeschi saw a new doctor who says he may have a name for Tedeschi's condition: multisystem inflammatory syndrome in adults (MIS-A), a rare but serious condition tied to COVID-19. Only recently identified by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), it targets multiple organs and causes increased inflammation in the body.

The doctor referred Tedeschi to an infectious disease specialist for a definitive diagnosis and treatment. Tedeschi doesn't want to get his hopes up yet, but he has to admit it's promising, especially since there's a treatment for the condition.

"It could be the answer,” he says. “At least it's a start.”

Guy could be a 200 kg chain smoker. Besides, the average North American diet gives people incredible amounts of inflammation. Upon a glance, most North Americans have features which exclaim "bad health!" Bad skin, bad posture, huge bellies...and the amount of people that are practically crippled by age 50. As for this guy, without a patient health history, this anecdote has no weight, unfortunately.

[ReserveTank]

Karen doesn't have the medical or virology expertise to judge that by herself so technically no, she doesn't know or realize the risk she is taking.

You need to be a virology expert to understand what the potential symptoms of covid are?

This is really the thing that they go hide behind as their defense in an argument. In their minds, no one can know anything about anything except an expert. It's their weak mic-drop-wannabe culture. Instead of refuting your points with logic, they parrot their prepackaged tripe. These are the thick-rimmed-glasses characters in uniform reciting the script. Better get an aeronautical engineer as a 3rd crewmember on every flight, because my goodness, the pilots aren't experts on every detail of fluid dynamics.

[ReserveTank]

So zero educational background on the subject matter then. You should know better. An opthamologist/GP/pathologist/cardiologist/stats PhD has no credentials to speak on the subject but you're somehow analyzing and proffering an opinion as though your education has any relevance because you took intro stats?
Thanks for your online studies.

When pilots forget they're just pilots...
No patient is intubated unless it is a necessity.

Stop thinking you possess either the mental capacity or requisite educational background to understand even the simplest level of the subject matter.

Nice try. I have a master in Language and Aeronautical Science. I have also earned certificates (at one of the best aviation universities on the planet) in air crash investigation and aeromedical factors. It's a bad look to project your own inadequacies on to others. If your expectations for yourself are low, that's not my problem--and it doesn't take away from my line of questioning.

Discussing statistical anomalies and ethics are basic concepts which are covered in year 1. The given data doesn't distribute normally. What specifically about that are you refuting? Did you try it yourself?

What regarding comorbidities are you refuting? Since 2020 has something changed with people who live an unhealthy lifestyle?

Now about intubation, it's not as if it were some magic.

There's your first problem--Excessive credentialism. It's the wall you hide behind when you want to "win" an argument and "mic drop." Everyone's working with the data that they've been given---isn't that how you formed your view on it? Where's your credentials to have an opinion if that isn't so?
I indicated that the stats don't follow ethics. You can run it on your Excel if you have a moment. Those numbers were from the gov't, not from some "internet whacko." I am well studied in stats, and far beyond intro, thanks. You could have simply refuted it with some other principle but decided to go for the weak credentials route.

online studies

Where did you form your opinions again? I am fortunate enough to have medical professionals in my circle of friends and acquaintances. It nets a whole lot more than simply reading online. I don't subscribe to medical journals, and my aeromedical certification is obviously limited to my field. But, it doesn't mean that only experts can know things. Do you need a physics expert to determine heat transfer every time you put warm beer in the fridge, or do you know it's going to get cold? When you take an ice cold Molson out of the fridge, do you call an MBA to tally it up, or do you trust that you've learned enough through reading, common sense, and practice to do the minus one?

Besides, you should pay closer attention, because dissenting views (on covid, c19 policy, etc.) are few and far between on the net these days. "Online studies" against the mainstream view is dead, IMO.

Again, what about the comorbidities are you refuting?

[kgb531]

As none of my degrees are health-related I take the advice of the vast consensus of actual experts: Virologists/epidemiologists/immunologists. Not the 1% outliers, and certainly not mere GPs or other specialists from irrelevant areas of medicine. I don't proffer any advice or criticize said vast consensus because I am nowhere close to being qualified to do so. I am intelligent enough to realize I haven't had 10+ years of the requisite medical/specialty education and experience. Others lack that foresight (and intelligence).

Thinking you have the innate mental capacity to comprehend a conversation about something re: medicine, let alone something about infectious diseases because you perused some articles and have some medical "professionals" in your circle of friends is laughable. I'm not trying to refute anything about comorbidities, statistically or medically because I'm not qualified to. Neither are you. Only one of us realizes it.

So zero educational background on the subject matter then. You should know better. An opthamologist/GP/pathologist/cardiologist/stats PhD has no credentials to speak on the subject but you're somehow analyzing and proffering an opinion as though your education has any relevance because you took intro stats?
Thanks for your online studies.

Nice try. I have a master in Language and Aeronautical Science. I have also earned certificates (at one of the best aviation universities on the planet) in air crash investigation and aeromedical factors. It's a bad look to project your own inadequacies on to others. If your expectations for yourself are low, that's not my problem--and it doesn't take away from my line of questioning.

Discussing statistical anomalies and ethics are basic concepts which are covered in year 1. The given data doesn't distribute normally. What specifically about that are you refuting? Did you try it yourself?

What regarding comorbidities are you refuting? Since 2020 has something changed with people who live an unhealthy lifestyle?

Now about intubation, it's not as if it were some magic.

There's your first problem--Excessive credentialism. It's the wall you hide behind when you want to "win" an argument and "mic drop." Everyone's working with the data that they've been given---isn't that how you formed your view on it? Where's your credentials to have an opinion if that isn't so?
I indicated that the stats don't follow ethics. You can run it on your Excel if you have a moment. Those numbers were from the gov't, not from some "internet whacko." I am well studied in stats, and far beyond intro, thanks. You could have simply refuted it with some other principle but decided to go for the weak credentials route.

online studies

Where did you form your opinions again? I am fortunate enough to have medical professionals in my circle of friends and acquaintances. It nets a whole lot more than simply reading online. I don't subscribe to medical journals, and my aeromedical certification is obviously limited to my field. But, it doesn't mean that only experts can know things. Do you need a physics expert to determine heat transfer every time you put warm beer in the fridge, or do you know it's going to get cold? When you take an ice cold Molson out of the fridge, do you call an MBA to tally it up, or do you trust that you've learned enough through reading, common sense, and practice to do the minus one?

Besides, you should pay closer attention, because dissenting views (on covid, c19 policy, etc.) are few and far between on the net these days. "Online studies" against the mainstream view is dead, IMO.

Again, what about the comorbidities are you refuting?

[Vaticinator]

Wow. That's some Dark Ages shit right there.

[Vaticinator]

As much as they think they do, Anti-Vax Karen or Joe Blow don’t have the IQ level to understand the efficiency of a vaccine.

What is the requisite IQ level to understand the "efficiency" of a vaccine?

[Vaticinator]

As none of my degrees are health-related I take the advice of the vast consensus of actual experts

Does consensus = truth?

[TG]

As much as they think they do, Anti-Vax Karen or Joe Blow don’t have the IQ level to understand the efficiency of a vaccine.

What is the requisite IQ level to understand the "efficiency" of a vaccine?

I know you like statistics and numbers so I’ll give you one.
42 is their IQ level (maybe you’ll get the inside joke)

[Vaticinator]

I love inside jokes. I hope to be a part of one some day.