Quebec to allow covid positive health care workers to continue working

[pelmet]

I've seen varying numbers, 70% being the high end. Notably, that was before omicron. Saw a stat today out of Ontario that vaccine effectiveness against omicron is at 15%. Haven't yet dug any deeper on that to confirm.

15% against getting infected is correct but near 100% to avoid the hospital. In other words, like the flu shot. You may get the flu but it lessens the lilkelyhood of a hospital stay.

And that is what is important.

Is there anything you aren't an expert on?

Curious.

This was Dr. Juni, Scientific Director of the Ontario COVID-19 Science Advisory Table, said on TV, so just passing it on. I would hope that you feel it is a useful thing to do as you have mentioned the importance of hospitals not being backed up. I like helping you and others out.

[pelmet]

I've seen varying numbers, 70% being the high end. Notably, that was before omicron. Saw a stat today out of Ontario that vaccine effectiveness against omicron is at 15%. Haven't yet dug any deeper on that to confirm.

15% against getting infected is correct but near 100% to avoid the hospital. In other words, like the flu shot. You may get the flu but it lessens the lilkelyhood of a hospital stay.

And that is what is important.

That was not my question. My question was how effective is the vaccine at preventing transmission from a vaccinated person. Not how effective is the vaccine at preventing infection from the individual who takes the vaccines. If I am vaccinated and test positive for Covid, how effective is the vaccine at preventing me from spreading it. Is this different than if I’m not vaccinated and Covid positive. This is why I’m asking if it makes sense to allow Covid positive HCWs to keep working. Is the policy science based?

The important thing is keeping people out of hospitals. I believe the flu vaccine, which has been widely accepted for years is similar. You may get the flu, but it will be less harmful.

So far, we have avoided the hospital overflows in Ontario, Quebec, and BC, unlike what we saw in Alberta and Saskatchewan along with the associated lockdowns. I’m happy with that.

[RoAF-Mig21]

I can't comment on the details, because I don't know enough about it.

It does, however, seem that we're changing rules "as we go", not only based on actual scientific data and knowledge that we acquire as we learn more about the virus and its variants (valid reasons), but to also accommodate the failure of our political and medical systems.

When you get a PPC, there are standards. If you perform below that standard, you fail... When our government(s) fail(s) they just move the bar to accommodate that failure. Wouldn't be nice if we did that with our PPCs? I mean why stress that you can't do a V1 cut? We'll just do it till you get it right... At least on paper it looks good.

[JasonE]

Ontario is still reporting both vax'd/unvax'd numbers. I don't think it matters what side of the fence you are on, it's just scary the rate of spread. Hopefully it's all this new variant that is significantly milder.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

Dec 31st, 2021
Unvaccinated Rate Per 100,000: 59.75
Unvaccinated Cases: 2278

Fully vaccinated Rate Per 100,000: 79.76
Fully vaccinated Cases: 13436

Partially vaccinated Rate Per 100,000: 63.77
Partially vaccinated Cases: 647

[imjustlurking]

Ontario is still reporting both vax'd/unvax'd numbers. I don't think it matters what side of the fence you are on, it's just scary the rate of spread. Hopefully it's all this new variant that is significantly milder.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

Dec 31st, 2021
Unvaccinated Rate Per 100,000: 59.75
Unvaccinated Cases: 2278

Fully vaccinated Rate Per 100,000: 79.76
Fully vaccinated Cases: 13436

Partially vaccinated Rate Per 100,000: 63.77
Partially vaccinated Cases: 647

Again, vaccines do not prevent one from getting sick, so these numbers are interesting at best and irrelevant at worst.

The key numbers are ICU cases where people are intubated (as someone being hospitalized as a precaution due to symptoms not requiring intervention is, again, irrelevant).

Ontario:
ICU Patients with positive COVID19 Test
Fully vaccinated: 47
Partially vaccinated: 7
Unvaccinated: 89


Number of people
Fully vaccinated: 11,410,550
Partially vaccinated: 798,186
Unvaccinated: 2,581,042


Rate per 100,000
Fully vaccinated: 0.412
Partially vaccinated: 0.877
Unvaccinated: 3.45

[ReserveTank]

Did they learn that being vaccinated offers no protection to the patients?

That is false, but I think you already know this. Embellishment doesn’t doesn’t help your arguments, but rather makes you look like a prick.

Then the CDC and WHO also look like pricks...They're the ones who originally stated it! Go on, now, go find the source.

[ReserveTank]

Ontario is still reporting both vax'd/unvax'd numbers. I don't think it matters what side of the fence you are on, it's just scary the rate of spread. Hopefully it's all this new variant that is significantly milder.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

Dec 31st, 2021
Unvaccinated Rate Per 100,000: 59.75
Unvaccinated Cases: 2278

Fully vaccinated Rate Per 100,000: 79.76
Fully vaccinated Cases: 13436

Partially vaccinated Rate Per 100,000: 63.77
Partially vaccinated Cases: 647

Again, vaccines do not prevent one from getting sick, so these numbers are interesting at best and irrelevant at worst.

The key numbers are ICU cases where people are intubated (as someone being hospitalized as a precaution due to symptoms not requiring intervention is, again, irrelevant).

Ontario:
ICU Patients with positive COVID19 Test
Fully vaccinated: 47
Partially vaccinated: 7
Unvaccinated: 89


Number of people
Fully vaccinated: 11,410,550
Partially vaccinated: 798,186
Unvaccinated: 2,581,042


Rate per 100,000
Fully vaccinated: 0.412
Partially vaccinated: 0.877
Unvaccinated: 3.45

That was a nice sleight of hand, the usual tricks. He sourced data that showed the vaxxed have a higher rate of infection, which is entirely the point.
You're right, the vax does nothing to prevent you from getting sick, and statistically appears to cause more symptoms. With a higher rate of cases per, it makes zero statistical sense (also none for his argument) that more unvaxed would be intubated.

[imjustlurking]

That was a nice sleight of hand, the usual tricks. He sourced data that showed the vaxxed have a higher rate of infection, which is entirely the point.
You're right, the vax does nothing to prevent you from getting sick, and statistically appears to cause more symptoms. With a higher rate of cases per, it makes zero statistical sense (also none for his argument) that more unvaxed would be intubated.

Who cares if Joe across the hall is double vaxxed, get's COVID, and has the sniffles for three days.

What matters is if Karen down the street refuses to get vaccinated and ends up with a tube shoved down her throat.

[Vaticinator]

Presumably, Karen knew the risks when she chose to not get vaccinated. Just like how people know the risks associated with smoking, but do it anyways.

[Bingo Fuel]

You're right, the vax does nothing to prevent you from getting sick, and statistically appears to cause more symptoms. With a higher rate of cases per, it makes zero statistical sense (also none for his argument) that more unvaxed would be intubated.

I'd like to see your stats that show that vaccinated people in Ontario are being intubated at a higher rate than the unvaccinated.

You claim their numbers make no sense, and provide none of your own.

[ReserveTank]

That was a nice sleight of hand, the usual tricks. He sourced data that showed the vaxxed have a higher rate of infection, which is entirely the point.
You're right, the vax does nothing to prevent you from getting sick, and statistically appears to cause more symptoms. With a higher rate of cases per, it makes zero statistical sense (also none for his argument) that more unvaxed would be intubated.

Who cares if Joe across the hall is double vaxxed, get's COVID, and has the sniffles for three days.

What matters is if Karen down the street refuses to get vaccinated and ends up with a tube shoved down her throat.

And double vax Joe magically cannot have the same fate? It's the same infection, and now the vaxxed are beginning to catch at higher rates.
2 years in, I've known zero people that have caught a noteworthy case. Even by several degrees of separation---nobody. I have breakfast with a doctor every morning of my life. Same thing. While that's my own testimony from my little bubble, statistically, n should be greater than zero for this sample. It's not.
The news can say whatever it wants. It's no different than a soap opera or movie. They produce fear, and it works because the public is generally weak. This is the same media that gave us Smollett, and was dead serious. A handful of vax enthusiasts (who also own/fund news sources) want to squander your tax money on buying their vax subscription. They learned in 2009 (H1N1) that if people had a choice, few would choose a vax.

Karen

I'd be more careful about being hostile to my own people. We have no idea when we'll need each other.

[ReserveTank]

You're right, the vax does nothing to prevent you from getting sick, and statistically appears to cause more symptoms. With a higher rate of cases per, it makes zero statistical sense (also none for his argument) that more unvaxed would be intubated.

I'd like to see your stats that show that vaccinated people in Ontario are being intubated at a higher rate than the unvaccinated.

You claim their numbers make no sense, and provide none of your own.

I'm discussing a statistical anomaly that can be spotted with little effort. Rise in cases, but no corresponding curve? That's statistical ethics 101...bell curves be like dat. It was an odd argument to specify intubated cases when the original argument was vaxxed cases outpacing unvaxxed. Now, on the subject of ICU, the real question that's being dodged is how many cases are actually intubated out of absolute necessity. Then lies the third rail---How many cases are intubated due to comorbidity? Living a life in any combo of obese, cigarette smoking, alcoholic, drug abusing, diabetic, hypertensive, and many other self-induced disorders can net you a ventilator installation with a wide variety of otherwise mild illnesses. Been like that for a while, nothing new.

[Bingo Fuel]

You're right, the vax does nothing to prevent you from getting sick, and statistically appears to cause more symptoms. With a higher rate of cases per, it makes zero statistical sense (also none for his argument) that more unvaxed would be intubated.

I'd like to see your stats that show that vaccinated people in Ontario are being intubated at a higher rate than the unvaccinated.

You claim their numbers make no sense, and provide none of your own.

I'm discussing a statistical anomaly that can be spotted with little effort. Rise in cases, but no corresponding curve? That's statistical ethics 101...bell curves be like dat. It was an odd argument to specify intubated cases when the original argument was vaxxed cases outpacing unvaxxed. Now, on the subject of ICU, the real question that's being dodged is how many cases are actually intubated out of absolute necessity. Then lies the third rail---How many cases are intubated due to comorbidity? Living a life in any combo of obese, cigarette smoking, alcoholic, drug abusing, diabetic, hypertensive, and many other self-induced disorders can net you a ventilator installation with a wide variety of otherwise mild illnesses. Been like that for a while, nothing new.

I still don't see any numbers backing up your claims.

By the way, what happened to all those refugees you were upset about? I definitely haven't seen any.

[ReserveTank]

I'd like to see your stats that show that vaccinated people in Ontario are being intubated at a higher rate than the unvaccinated.

You claim their numbers make no sense, and provide none of your own.

I'm discussing a statistical anomaly that can be spotted with little effort. Rise in cases, but no corresponding curve? That's statistical ethics 101...bell curves be like dat. It was an odd argument to specify intubated cases when the original argument was vaxxed cases outpacing unvaxxed. Now, on the subject of ICU, the real question that's being dodged is how many cases are actually intubated out of absolute necessity. Then lies the third rail---How many cases are intubated due to comorbidity? Living a life in any combo of obese, cigarette smoking, alcoholic, drug abusing, diabetic, hypertensive, and many other self-induced disorders can net you a ventilator installation with a wide variety of otherwise mild illnesses. Been like that for a while, nothing new.

I still don't see any numbers backing up your claims.

We're using the given numbers and applying simple statistical ethics to them. Do you know what a bell curve is? The given data does not distribute normally (try it on Excel), so someone has supplied spurious data. Usually happens when one party wants to pull a fast one on you. History of rhetoric...BS statistics for at least 2,500 years and counting.

By the way, what happened to all those refugees you were upset about? I definitely haven't seen any.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada- ... -1.5676552
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... sures.html

After January 15, 2022, unvaccinated or partially vaccinated foreign nationals will only be allowed to enter Canada if they meet the criteria for limited exceptions, which apply to certain groups such as agricultural and food processing workers, marine crew members, those entering on compassionate grounds, new permanent residents, resettling refugees and some children under the age of 18. Exempt unvaccinated travellers will continue to be subject to testing, quarantine, and other entry requirements. Non-exempt unvaccinated or partially vaccinated foreign nationals will be prohibited entry into Canada.

LOL, essentially the "rescue boat" crew and the unvaxxed refugees. Enjoy your new country. I heard Italy and Greece are ecstatic with their similar arrangements.

Unvaxxed refugees are here (more coming) and it's completely legal. Because nothing is more important at this moment than unvaxxed foreigners settling in your country in the middle of a pandemic. So logical. Something tells me that you're not willing to put up any opposition to this, though.

[Bingo Fuel]

I'm discussing a statistical anomaly that can be spotted with little effort. Rise in cases, but no corresponding curve? That's statistical ethics 101...bell curves be like dat. It was an odd argument to specify intubated cases when the original argument was vaxxed cases outpacing unvaxxed. Now, on the subject of ICU, the real question that's being dodged is how many cases are actually intubated out of absolute necessity. Then lies the third rail---How many cases are intubated due to comorbidity? Living a life in any combo of obese, cigarette smoking, alcoholic, drug abusing, diabetic, hypertensive, and many other self-induced disorders can net you a ventilator installation with a wide variety of otherwise mild illnesses. Been like that for a while, nothing new.

I still don't see any numbers backing up your claims.

We're using the given numbers and applying simple statistical ethics to them. Do you know what a bell curve is? The given data does not distribute normally (try it on Excel), so someone has supplied spurious data. Usually happens when one party wants to pull a fast one on you. History of rhetoric...BS statistics for at least 2,500 years and counting.

By the way, what happened to all those refugees you were upset about? I definitely haven't seen any.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada- ... -1.5676552
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... sures.html

After January 15, 2022, unvaccinated or partially vaccinated foreign nationals will only be allowed to enter Canada if they meet the criteria for limited exceptions, which apply to certain groups such as agricultural and food processing workers, marine crew members, those entering on compassionate grounds, new permanent residents, resettling refugees and some children under the age of 18. Exempt unvaccinated travellers will continue to be subject to testing, quarantine, and other entry requirements. Non-exempt unvaccinated or partially vaccinated foreign nationals will be prohibited entry into Canada.

LOL, essentially the "rescue boat" crew and the unvaxxed refugees. Enjoy your new country. I heard Italy and Greece are ecstatic with their similar arrangements.

Unvaxxed refugees are here (more coming) and it's completely legal. Because nothing is more important at this moment than unvaxxed foreigners settling in your country in the middle of a pandemic. So logical. Something tells me that you're not willing to put up any opposition to this, though.

So every infectious disease expert is obfuscating data in the exact same way?

Why must ICU admission data follow a bell curve?

Where is the false data here?


As for refugees, I have no problems with them whatsoever. From your source, we only turned back about 500 refugees this year. 500 people doesn't worry me in the least, and I don't worry at all about the "great replacement".

[chowda]

I've seen varying numbers, 70% being the high end. Notably, that was before omicron. Saw a stat today out of Ontario that vaccine effectiveness against omicron is at 15%. Haven't yet dug any deeper on that to confirm.

15% against getting infected is correct but near 100% to avoid the hospital. In other words, like the flu shot. You may get the flu but it lessens the lilkelyhood of a hospital stay.

And that is what is important.

You're full of shit.

BC's latest numbers show half of hospitalization are vaxxed.

Past two weeks cases hospitalized (Dec. 16-29) - Total 180
Not vaccinated: 96 (53.3%)
Partially vaccinated: 3 (1.7%)
Fully vaccinated: 81 (45%)

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2021HLTH0251-002468

[cdnavater]

15% against getting infected is correct but near 100% to avoid the hospital. In other words, like the flu shot. You may get the flu but it lessens the lilkelyhood of a hospital stay.

And that is what is important.

You're full of shit.

BC's latest numbers show half of hospitalization are vaxxed.

Past two weeks cases hospitalized (Dec. 16-29) - Total 180
Not vaccinated: 96 (53.3%)
Partially vaccinated: 3 (1.7%)
Fully vaccinated: 81 (45%)

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2021HLTH0251-002468

Perhaps someone who lacks the simply ability of comprehension should refrain from posting, you don’t see a problem with the FACT, 10% of the B.C population is responsible for over half the hospitalization.
Below is the Dec 31 update, maybe peruse the highlights and try to grasp what it’s saying, I’ll break it down a bit for you.

Of the last week’s reported cases, nearly 15,000 were in fully vaccinated, for some reason they have a two week report of hospitalization, only 81 ended up in the hospital, but of the 2535 unvaccinated 96 went to hospital.
Not going to dig further to see how many cases were reported in that two week period because it will only make you look even more stupid.
Again, explaining it like you’re a two year old, 10% of the people account for MORE than half of the hospitalizations, if you take the 15000 reported case and the two week hospitalization, it ends up as a half percent of the vaccinated going to hospital, so yes nearly 100% effective against hospitalization, got it yet?


https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2021HLTH0251-002468

Also, 92.3% (3,993,382) of all eligible adults in B.C. have received their first dose, 89.6% (3,877,423) received their second dose, and 21.0% (908,376) have received a third dose

Past week cases (Dec. 23-29) - Total 17,762

Not vaccinated: 2,535 (14.3%)
Partially vaccinated: 305 (1.7%)
Fully vaccinated: 14,922 (84%)

Past two weeks cases hospitalized (Dec. 16-29) - Total 180

Not vaccinated: 96 (53.3%)
Partially vaccinated: 3 (1.7%)
Fully vaccinated: 81 (45%)

Past two weeks, cases hospitalized per 100,000 population after adjusting for age (Dec. 16-29)

Not vaccinated: 22.2
Partially vaccinated: 2.2
Fully vaccinated: 1.7

[kgb531]

When pilots forget they're just pilots...
No patient is intubated unless it is a necessity.

Stop thinking you possess either the mental capacity or requisite educational background to understand even the simplest level of the subject matter.

You're right, the vax does nothing to prevent you from getting sick, and statistically appears to cause more symptoms. With a higher rate of cases per, it makes zero statistical sense (also none for his argument) that more unvaxed would be intubated.

I'd like to see your stats that show that vaccinated people in Ontario are being intubated at a higher rate than the unvaccinated.

You claim their numbers make no sense, and provide none of your own.

I'm discussing a statistical anomaly that can be spotted with little effort. Rise in cases, but no corresponding curve? That's statistical ethics 101...bell curves be like dat. It was an odd argument to specify intubated cases when the original argument was vaxxed cases outpacing unvaxxed. Now, on the subject of ICU, the real question that's being dodged is how many cases are actually intubated out of absolute necessity. Then lies the third rail---How many cases are intubated due to comorbidity? Living a life in any combo of obese, cigarette smoking, alcoholic, drug abusing, diabetic, hypertensive, and many other self-induced disorders can net you a ventilator installation with a wide variety of otherwise mild illnesses. Been like that for a while, nothing new.

[chowda]

You're full of shit.

BC's latest numbers show half of hospitalization are vaxxed.

Past two weeks cases hospitalized (Dec. 16-29) - Total 180
Not vaccinated: 96 (53.3%)
Partially vaccinated: 3 (1.7%)
Fully vaccinated: 81 (45%)

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2021HLTH0251-002468

Perhaps someone who lacks the simply ability of comprehension should refrain from posting, you don’t see a problem with the FACT, 10% of the B.C population is responsible for over half the hospitalization.
Below is the Dec 31 update, maybe peruse the highlights and try to grasp what it’s saying, I’ll break it down a bit for you.

Of the last week’s reported cases, nearly 15,000 were in fully vaccinated, for some reason they have a two week report of hospitalization, only 81 ended up in the hospital, but of the 2535 unvaccinated 96 went to hospital.
Not going to dig further to see how many cases were reported in that two week period because it will only make you look even more stupid.
Again, explaining it like you’re a two year old, 10% of the people account for MORE than half of the hospitalizations, if you take the 15000 reported case and the two week hospitalization, it ends up as a half percent of the vaccinated going to hospital, so yes nearly 100% effective against hospitalization, got it yet?


https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2021HLTH0251-002468

Also, 92.3% (3,993,382) of all eligible adults in B.C. have received their first dose, 89.6% (3,877,423) received their second dose, and 21.0% (908,376) have received a third dose

Past week cases (Dec. 23-29) - Total 17,762

Not vaccinated: 2,535 (14.3%)
Partially vaccinated: 305 (1.7%)
Fully vaccinated: 14,922 (84%)

Past two weeks cases hospitalized (Dec. 16-29) - Total 180

Not vaccinated: 96 (53.3%)
Partially vaccinated: 3 (1.7%)
Fully vaccinated: 81 (45%)

Past two weeks, cases hospitalized per 100,000 population after adjusting for age (Dec. 16-29)

Not vaccinated: 22.2
Partially vaccinated: 2.2
Fully vaccinated: 1.7

Yeah, so its reverting to how many percentage wise are causing hospitalizations. Im so shocked at another attempt to again villify unvaxxed.

Read the big letters again. Its for pinheads that try to comeback with deflective responses.

15% against getting infected is correct but near 100% to avoid the hospital. In other words, like the flu shot. You may get the flu but it lessens the lilkelyhood of a hospital stay.

I provide facts that that is a bullshit provaxx opinion, and right on cue you step up, avoid the point, and attempt to attack with asshole comments about intelligence and try to spin an antivaxx diatribe instead.

By the way, thanks for flying in new variant and spreading the shit out of it to record levels. Too bad you cant intelligently pin blame it on unvaxxed, but that just means you'll just do you and rub one out anyway, right?.

[cdnavater]

Yeah, so its reverting to how many percentage wise are causing hospitalizations. Im so shocked at another attempt to again villify unvaxxed.

Read the big letters again. Its for pinheads that try to comeback with deflective responses.

15% against getting infected is correct but near 100% to avoid the hospital. In other words, like the flu shot. You may get the flu but it lessens the lilkelyhood of a hospital stay.

I provide facts that that is a bullshit provaxx opinion, and right on cue you step up, avoid the point, and attempt to attack with asshole comments about intelligence and try to spin an antivaxx diatribe instead.

By the way, thanks for flying in new variant and spreading the shit out of it to record levels. Too bad you cant intelligently pin blame it on unvaxxed, but that just means you'll just do you and rub one out anyway, right?.

AGAIN, 81(two week’s hospitalization) out of 15,000( one week’s positive cases) is 0.005%, half of one percent is about as close as you can get to 100%, is that not clear to you?