ALPA 1934-1940's Membership Requirements

[ALPApolicy]

I invite the scrutiny of the moderators and owner of AvCanada with this post. I do believe it is relevant to a General Airline Industry forum. Perhaps it belongs elsewhere, such as in a separate Diversity and Inclusion subforum. Covid got its own subforum and it is filled with conspiracy whackos and flat-earther level logic. Why not a forum discussing the real and relevant issue of racial inequity in flight decks? The mods can contact me and let me know if an exploration of uncomfortable topics is permitted here. Or you can ban me from the board I suppose, although that would seem to be an over-reaction and evidence of a unwillingness to confront the uncomfortable topic of racism (if any) in aviation. Better to just ignore history and bury our heads in the sand I suppose.

I am not posting this information to be shocking. I am not trolling, but I suppose you, dear reader, can decide that for yourselves.


I am not qualified to assess why flight decks in Canada and USA seem to be overwhelmingly white (and male). I don't even know if this is a problem that needs to be rectified in keeping with the goals of equity that seem to consume HR departments of most corporations of a certain size. Do the pilots now occupying the flight decks of airline category aircraft need to acknowledge the apparent racial inequity in the pilot population? Is it just a case of the meritocracy in action? Do we just carry on? Does having Equity and Inclusion Committee in the MEC (like at my MEC) solve the problem?

All I know is it seems very jarring to see in print ALPA's original requirement that all members be white males:
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*Full disclosure: I am a 55 year old white male who is a huge fan of POTUS 45 but only slightly right of center in my political leanings and I would consider myself an atheist/agnostic who generally speaking detests identity politics and the whole blame white guys ethos. I am not an anti-racist as defined by Ibram X. Kendi. I believe in protection under the law for all and believe that everyone should be free from racial discrimination. I support JK Rowlings.

[digits_]

discussing the real and relevant issue

ALPA 1934-1940's Membership Requirements

All I know is it seems very jarring to see in print ALPA's original requirement that all members be white males:

You're a real whistleblower!

[hithere]

FFS John S find me an organization that was NOT racist in the 1930's. This supposed smoking gun that you are trying to find will not garner the attention you desire. Go spend your healthy paycheque flying your wingsuit and post that to youtube rather than wasting bandwidth here

[Inverted2]

Things were different 90 years ago. Get over it. Or are you hoping for a tearful Trudeau apology and 40 billion too?

[Arnie Pye]

Canada still greatly discriminates and punishes the aboriginal population in the 2020's. Perhaps you could take some of your outrage and direct it to helping get clean and safe drinking water on aboriginal reserves.

[imjustlurking]

*Full disclosure: I am a 55 year old white male who is a huge fan of POTUS 45 but only slightly right of center in my political leanings and I would consider myself an atheist/agnostic who generally speaking detests identity politics and the whole blame white guys ethos. I am not an anti-racist as defined by Ibram X. Kendi. I believe in protection under the law for all and believe that everyone should be free from racial discrimination. I support JK Rowlings.

You support Donald Trump (and everything he stands for) and JK Rowling (only because of her anti-trans tirade). A few weeks ago you chose to shove the anti-racism spire up your rear end, which didn't turn out too well for you.

Now you're trolling again, hoping for a different response?

No thank you. Good bye.

[QKZXKV]

I'm inclined to ask for 'ALPApolicy' to be jettisoned from this forum completely. The idiotic cartoon of a BLM guy wearing a mask as if to insinuate that BLM and mask wearing is something that has a connection, is one of the many nonsensical things this account posts on a day to day basis. Take this dogmatic socialist virtue signaling elsewhere and leave the aviation discussions to the grownups.

[ALPApolicy]

I'm inclined to ask for 'ALPApolicy' to be jettisoned from this forum completely. The idiotic cartoon of a BLM guy wearing a mask as if to insinuate that BLM and mask wearing is something that has a connection, is one of the many nonsensical things this account posts on a day to day basis. Take this dogmatic socialist virtue signaling elsewhere and leave the aviation discussions to the grownups.

Why virtue signal that you are "inclined" to do something. That seems a rather spineless way of not doing something. Why not just let your balls drop and ask?

For the rest of you, your anger or displeasure is understandable. I felt threatened too when someone seemingly pointed the finger at people who superficially resembled me as being the cause for their plight today.

I am just on a walk down a path and following it where the evidence leads me and maybe I'll take a fork when I come to it.

ALPA' s founders had courage to fight employers but not its racist members and that seems odd to me. The original 1931 Bylaws contained no prohibitions against Blacks or women. I wonder if the first Convention is where the debate happened that led to the "white race" only Bylaw being adopted? The archives show a 311 page summary of that convention. That is where I will look next.

I do find it ironic that the first paragraph of ALPA's 1931 Bylaws ends with a statement regarding "justice and equity" between employer and pilots. Justice and equity obviously are words whose definitions change over time...

[ALPApolicy]

It seems something is missing from ALPA's commemoration of 24 key founders + Dave Behncke here.

Similar to land acknowledgements today done by various civic institutions today, perhaps when mention is made of ALPA's Key Men founders a boilerplate could accompany the text which would acknowledge the harmful effects done to generations of would be Black and female aviators by the affirmative actions of ALPA in denying those groups access to the lucrative airline pilot career. Although the policy was "officially" lifted in the early 1940's, it wasn't until the 1960's that the first Black aviator gained access to the cockpit. Has ALPA done enough in the intervening years to atone for the inequity (inequity = not equity)?

[ALPApolicy]

And why just Blacks and women? Why didn't ALPA restrict membership to heterosexual pilots? Were there already gay pilots (or "confirmed bachelors" as they were known as in polite circles) in the ranks of the airline professionals? It seems odd not to include gay men in the prohibition.

[Arnie Pye]

What's your end game John? Are you posting this to make the ALPA of 90 years ago look bad? Are you posting this to let people know that WestJet's pilot group is still predominantly White Heterosexual Men? Are you seeking ways to bring more diversity into the flight deck? What are you doing to make the world a better place?
I suspect that you're just trying to play dog whistle politics. The reality is that the pilot group voted (a long time ago) and tossed the WJPA to the curb. I don't see them going back any time soon. Certainly not because of a policy that was rescinded over 60 years ago.

[ALPApolicy]

What's your end game John? Are you posting this to make the ALPA of 90 years ago look bad? Are you posting this to let people know that WestJet's pilot group is still predominantly White Heterosexual Men? Are you seeking ways to bring more diversity into the flight deck? What are you doing to make the world a better place?
I suspect that you're just trying to play dog whistle politics. The reality is that the pilot group voted (a long time ago) and tossed the WJPA to the curb. I don't see them going back any time soon. Certainly not because of a policy that was rescinded over 60 years ago.

1. I have never in my life had the ability to plan things. I'm a spur-of-the-moment kind of a guy. Ask anyone who has know me for longer than 5 minutes. So the answer is: I don't have one.

2. No.

3. No.

4. No.

5. Need clarification: "better" according to you, me, or someone else?

As far as last paragraph goes, none of this has anything to go with changing representation at WJ. I do not support the UPW nor any other group raiding ALPA.


John

[PostmasterGeneral]

John, what’s your big hate on for ALPA anyways?

As I understand it, didn’t they save your bacon relatively recently?

[newlygrounded]

Canada still greatly discriminates and punishes the aboriginal population in the 2020's. Perhaps you could take some of your outrage and direct it to helping get clean and safe drinking water on aboriginal reserves.

I've heard from sources it's generally the band that causes problems with getting the water fixed. Corruption affects people of all groups

[ALPApolicy]

Canada still greatly discriminates and punishes the aboriginal population in the 2020's. Perhaps you could take some of your outrage and direct it to helping get clean and safe drinking water on aboriginal reserves.

I've heard from sources it's generally the band that causes problems with getting the water fixed. Corruption affects people of all groups

Agreed. The problem, from friends who are much more familiar with the problem than I, is much more complex than "White man bad."

Also, not sure why Arnie thinks I'm "outraged". I don't do outrage anymore. Not in about 8 years.

[pelmet]

Actually, doesn’t ALPA do good things these days. WJ voted them in and I believe virtually all the pilots are happy with them.

[ALPApolicy]

John, what’s your big hate on for ALPA anyways?

As I understand it, didn’t they save your bacon relatively recently?

Q1. There is no hate on for anyone or anything. I wear the ALPA lanyard at work, pay my dues, and don't bad mouth either the reps or the union. I am interested in a topic that is uncomfortable to some. That's it.

Q2. I am not aware of any bacon-saving efforts on the part of ALPA, nor has anyone from management contacted me regarding a bacon-imperilling event. I suppose it is conceivable that bacon rescuing discussions took place between ALPA and the Company without my knowledge but I find that unlikely.

[pelmet]

Are most of the pilots satisfied with Alpa where you work?

[dogfood]

Canada still greatly discriminates and punishes the aboriginal population in the 2020's. Perhaps you could take some of your outrage and direct it to helping get clean and safe drinking water on aboriginal reserves.

Ill get on board with it as soon as the government helps me drill a new well for my house im sick and tired of not having clean drinking water too!

[ALPApolicy]

Are most of the pilots satisfied with Alpa where you work?

Yes. Overwhelmingly. Of course not all pilots are happy with every decision, but I think that the system is functioning well, especially the grievance committee. In any first contract there will be areas that are not as fulsome as required when unforeseen situations occur. I am hopeful that much experience is being gained that will benefit the pilots in the soon to come negotiations.

A small group of Calgary pilots have yet to come on side with ALPA but they have very little influence on the rest of the pilot group.