Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

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pelmet
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Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by pelmet »

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hotdog1
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by hotdog1 »

Update.

75% in hospital are vaccinated.
50% in ICU
It seems the vaccine isn’t as good as they said
The Ontario govt website source.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations
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photofly
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by photofly »

hotdog1 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:10 am Update.

75% in hospital are vaccinated.
In hospital, but not hospitalized because of COVID. If 100% of the population were vaccinated, then 100% of people in the hospital would be vaccinated.
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Vaticinator
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Vaticinator »

Doctors say obesity and diabetes do appear to put people at higher risk of severe disease, but the biggest risk factor is those who have skipped getting their vaccine.
...
Those who end up hospitalized tend to fit two profiles: unvaccinated people with little to no comorbidities, and those with some protection from vaccination but also other risk factors that caused them to be more at risk.
When you're done getting that jab, don't forget to buy a salad and a gym membership.
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hotdog1
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by hotdog1 »

photofly wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:22 am
hotdog1 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:10 am Update.

75% in hospital are vaccinated.
In hospital, but not hospitalized because of COVID. If 100% of the population were vaccinated, then 100% of people in the hospital would be vaccinated.

Nope, that’s not correct.
If you bothered to look at the link posted, you would see that those numbers are for those hospitalized BECAUSE of Covid and not a summary of all patients in hospital.

I know it’s hard for the pro vaxer crowd to admit the precious vaccine isn’t preventing serious illness as promised but those are the facts.
If the vaccine was working, like true vaccines of the past, the only people that would be in hospital with Covid would be those not vaccinated.
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imjustlurking
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by imjustlurking »

hotdog1 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:10 am Update.

75% in hospital are vaccinated.
50% in ICU
It seems the vaccine isn’t as good as they said
The Ontario govt website source.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations
Around 85% of the population is fully vaccinated. If 50% of ICU cases come from 15% of the population, there is a problem.

Let's make this easier to understand. You have eight oranges and two bananas in the fridge. One orange and one banana are rotten. Which is more likely to be rotten, oranges or bananas?

1 in 2 bananas (50%) are rotten.
1 in 8 oranges (12.5%) are rotten.

Now lets bring this back to the actual numbers of ICU patients. (Assuming 15 million population)

180 in 2,700,000 (0.006%) not fully vaccinated people are in ICU.
181 in 12,300,000 (0.0014%) fully vaccinated people are in ICU.

Or in other words, 6.66 of every 100,000 not fully vaccinated individuals are currently in ICU with COVID symptoms. Compare that to 1.47 of every 100,000 fully vaccinated people.

And because I doubt your ability to reason:
  • 6.66 is greater than 1.47.
  • Larger number is bad
  • Vaccine good.
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DanWEC
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by DanWEC »

Good God, the creative liberty with statistics here is staggering. I don't even know where half of these figures you're using come from. If you want to use a journalists' interpretation of science, then have at er.

Instead of projections, or massively biased studies presented to the government and funded by the pharmaceuticals, here are facts, today, Jan 13 2022, with cites:

Ontario full vaccination uptake : 77.6%
[https://www.publichealthontario.ca/en/d ... ab=summary]

Hospitalizations with positive SARS-COv-2: 2592. Fully Vaccinated, 1894. 73.2% Essentially a parallel of general population. Very little effect.
[https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations]

In the ICU due to Covid: 346. Fully Vaccinated, 181. 52.3%. Unvaccinated, 165.
[https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations]

If the ratio of ICU was exactly representative of the population then 268 people fully vaccinated people would be in the ICU. That's only a 23.8% difference. 80 People. 80.

This means that, right now, in realty, with today's stains, if the entire population was 100% unvaccinated there would be 425 people in the ICU with covid instead of 346.
If the entire population was fully vaccinated there would be 267 people in the ICU with Covid instead of 346.

This is a FAR cry from the the 10x higher protection that we were being told.

Do think this is enough of a difference to warrant the division, the hundreds of thousand who have lost their jobs, the vaccine passports, the proposed taxes?
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imjustlurking
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by imjustlurking »

DanWEC wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:54 pm Good God, the creative liberty with statistics here is staggering. I don't even know where half of these figures you're using come from. If you want to use a journalists' interpretation of science, then have at er.

Instead of projections, or massively biased studies presented to the government and funded by the pharmaceuticals, here are facts, today, Jan 13 2022, with cites:

Ontario full vaccination uptake : 77.6%
[https://www.publichealthontario.ca/en/d ... ab=summary]

Hospitalizations with positive SARS-COv-2: 2592. Fully Vaccinated, 1894. 73.2% Essentially a parallel of general population. Very little effect.
[https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations]

In the ICU due to Covid: 346. Fully Vaccinated, 181. 52.3%. Unvaccinated, 165.
[https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations]

If the ratio of ICU was exactly representative of the population then 268 people fully vaccinated people would be in the ICU. That's only a 23.8% difference. 80 People. 80.

This means that, right now, in realty, with today's stains, if the entire population was 100% unvaccinated there would be 425 people in the ICU with covid instead of 346.
If the entire population was fully vaccinated there would be 267 people in the ICU with Covid instead of 346.

This is a FAR cry from the the 10x higher protection that we were being told.

Do think this is enough of a difference to warrant the division, the hundreds of thousand who have lost their jobs, the vaccine passports, the proposed taxes?
The numbers I was using was the percentage fully vaccinated who are eligible for vaccines.
https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

And your claim that if the entire population were unvaccinated that we'd have 425 people in ICU is stupid. The fact is that 82% of eligible Ontarians are fully vaccinated and the spread of COVID that we see today reflects that. Your claim that 425 people would be in ICU is based on the reproduction rate of today's ACTUAL situation.

Get vaccinated and wear a mask. It's not difficult. It's not onerous. It's not dangerous.

What is difficult, onerous, and dangerous is to refuse to get vaccinated and wear a mask, and rightfully so.
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DanWEC
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by DanWEC »

Some people won't be convinced no matter what the numbers present. Believe what you want. I have a Bio degree and lab background. I only believe the data and what my textbooks say about epidemiology and pandemics.
Masks works, vaccines work, but not to the level we're being instructed to believe.
You do whatever you want, you're entitled to that, but don't decry choices that others make for themselves based on information you don't understand in the same way.
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imjustlurking
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by imjustlurking »

DanWEC wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:40 pm Some people won't be convinced no matter what the numbers present. Believe what you want. I have a Bio degree and lab background. I only believe the data and what my textbooks say about epidemiology and pandemics. You do whatever you want, you're entitled to that, but don't decry choices that others make for themselves based on information you don't understand in the same way.
You have a bio degree and lab background? Cool beans.

Did you take a statistics course in your studies, because you're not arguing about biology or lab work.
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DanWEC
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by DanWEC »

Don't worry, I'm not arguing anything on here. I know better than that, and have a normal life to live. I've simply presented the data, and you're free to do with what you wish. Later.
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cdnavater
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by cdnavater »

DanWEC wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:54 pm Good God, the creative liberty with statistics here is staggering. I don't even know where half of these figures you're using come from. If you want to use a journalists' interpretation of science, then have at er.

Instead of projections, or massively biased studies presented to the government and funded by the pharmaceuticals, here are facts, today, Jan 13 2022, with cites:

Ontario full vaccination uptake : 77.6%
[https://www.publichealthontario.ca/en/d ... ab=summary]

Hospitalizations with positive SARS-COv-2: 2592. Fully Vaccinated, 1894. 73.2% Essentially a parallel of general population. Very little effect.
[https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations]

In the ICU due to Covid: 346. Fully Vaccinated, 181. 52.3%. Unvaccinated, 165.
[https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations]

If the ratio of ICU was exactly representative of the population then 268 people fully vaccinated people would be in the ICU. That's only a 23.8% difference. 80 People. 80.

This means that, right now, in realty, with today's stains, if the entire population was 100% unvaccinated there would be 425 people in the ICU with covid instead of 346.
If the entire population was fully vaccinated there would be 267 people in the ICU with Covid instead of 346.

This is a FAR cry from the the 10x higher protection that we were being told.

Do think this is enough of a difference to warrant the division, the hundreds of thousand who have lost their jobs, the vaccine passports, the proposed taxes?
I love the irony
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Arnie Pye
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Arnie Pye »

DanWEC wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:40 pm Some people won't be convinced no matter what the numbers present. Believe what you want. I have a Bio degree and lab background. I only believe the data and what my textbooks say about epidemiology and pandemics.
Masks works, vaccines work, but not to the level we're being instructed to believe.
You do whatever you want, you're entitled to that, but don't decry choices that others make for themselves based on information you don't understand in the same way.
No one said you don't have a choice. You can stay at home, order your groceries online, not go to the liquor store and pay upfront for your future healthcare - or - you can participate in society and get vaccinated, work in any field you want, go to restaurants and liquor stores and not pay an extra tax.
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palebird
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by palebird »

No one said you don't have a choice. You can stay at home, order your groceries online, not go to the liquor store and pay upfront for your future healthcare - or - you can participate in society and get vaccinated, work in any field you want, go to restaurants and liquor stores and not pay an extra tax.
Blah blah blah stop regurgitating the nonsense. It is very tiresome. Everything you said was /is ridiculous. Read a book or two.
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DanWEC
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by DanWEC »

My opinion is that ongoing, real-time and retrospective analysis of the efficacy of vaccination doesn't justify the vigorous, disproportional reliance on mandated immunization.

Very simply- if 77.6% of the Covid ICU patients were vaccinated, it would be exactly representative of the general population baseline, ergo the vaccine would be 0% effective. It's currently sitting at 52%. An effect? Yes. Anywhere near the advertised efficacy? Not. Even. Remotely.

This isn't hyperbole, interpretation, or anything else. It's cold, hard, current numbers. Vaccinate if you're at risk, anything outside of that should be a choice.
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Posthumane
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Posthumane »

DanWEC - your crude analysis assumes that the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations are otherwise the same, but they are not. The percentage of people who are vaccinated is significantly lower amongst the younger age groups, which means an unvaccinated person is significantly more likely to be in an lower age bracket than a vaccinated one. To put another way: the unvaccinated population skews younger. Since age is strongly correlated with more severe outcomes of covid (and most other respiratory diseases), this age difference in the populations has to be taken into account when calculating efficacy. I assume with your background you knew that, though, and chose to omit it for some reason.

What is the "advertised efficacy" of the currently available vaccines against the currently dominant (omicron) strain? The 90%+ reductions in severe outcomes were against the original strains for which the vaccine was developed. The fact that it continued to work as well against follow on strains (alpha, delta) was lucky. Detailed, age stratified data shows that Bnt162b2 has about a 55% efficacy against infection. The non-age stratified data you're using shows an efficacy of 69% against ICU admission.

Beside all that, anyone past their 20's who is not vaccinated made that decision while the earlier variants were spreading for which the vaccines were much more effective, so clearly they did not make that decision based on the numbers.
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Aviatard »

FOD wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:46 am No. YOU can stay home and leave the normal people alone.
So, you’re the normal people then?
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Vaticinator
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Vaticinator »

It certainly doesn't seem normal to profess such strong belief in the efficacy of a vaccine that you think you should be able to dictate its uptake to strangers, while simultaneously be so terrified of getting sick that you're too afraid to interact with the unvaccinated in any way.
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matt foley
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by matt foley »

These properly interpreted statistics are supported but the Common Sense Check my brain runs when the sanity deficient start spouting. I have no training in stats, Biology, politics etc so I leave it to the experts. Reposted original because it really needs to be.


Now lets bring this back to the actual numbers of ICU patients. (Assuming 15 million population)

180 in 2,700,000 (0.006%) not fully vaccinated people are in ICU.
181 in 12,300,000 (0.0014%) fully vaccinated people are in ICU.

Or in other words, 6.66 of every 100,000 not fully vaccinated individuals are currently in ICU with COVID symptoms. Compare that to 1.47 of every 100,000 fully vaccinated people.

And because I doubt your ability to reason:
6.66 is greater than 1.47.
Larger number is bad
Vaccine good.
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Aviatard
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Aviatard »

Vaticinator wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:53 am It certainly doesn't seem normal to profess such strong belief in the efficacy of a vaccine that you think you should be able to dictate its uptake to strangers, while simultaneously be so terrified of getting sick that you're too afraid to interact with the unvaccinated in any way.
Refusing a vaccine seems as normal as refusing to black out your windows in WW2 London because “my freedoms”.
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