Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

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palebird
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by palebird »

You sure like that word… anti-vaxxer. I wish you and the rest of the “government and their media is god” crowd would stop using it as if it makes any sense whatsoever. An anti-vaxxer is someone who isn’t vaccinated against MMR, Polio, Tetanus, Hepatitis, etc., not someone who would like to hold off on having themselves injected with an experimental MRNA vaccine for which we know little of the long term side effects. More and more experts on the subject (sorry, your local GP doesn’t count) are advising against it’s use to the extent at which it is now being pushed. How many boosters are you willing to take? 5? 10? 100?
Excellent post. Let's see who tries to tear this one down. There are some very feeble minds on here.
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CpnCrunch
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by CpnCrunch »

We know that the vaccine is safe and highly effective against hospitalization and death, and we have a lot of data. An antivaxxer is someone who denies this. It's strange that people are concerned about the long-term effects of a vaccine (none apparent so far), but don't seem to care about long covid.
palebird wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:01 pm There are some very feeble minds on here.
Indeed.
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Just another canuck
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Just another canuck »

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CpnCrunch
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by CpnCrunch »

Just another canuck wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:35 pm
CDC is reporting almost 8,000 deaths due to the vaccine and over 30,000 permanent disabilities.
No, they're not. I think you're talking about VAERS, which is NOT "deaths due to vaccine".
Is it safer than getting COVID itself? Probably. Maybe. I don’t know and neither do you.
We have multiple large studies which tell us it is much safer than getting COVID.
I suspect getting multiple boosters is not a good idea based on much of the information I’ve seen.
It definitely is a good idea, as it significantly reduces risk of death and hospitalisation. But if you don't want it, that's fine with me.
I just don’t think it should be mandated, much like every other vaccine out there.
I completely agree. I think people should be given freedom to choose, and take the consequences. They should also be triaged appropriately at hospitals.
To those who think unvaccinated should be put at the back of the line with regards to health care, well shame on you. Also, you’re stupid.
Why should the unvaccinated cause other people to die?
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Just another canuck
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

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Just another canuck
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Just another canuck »

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TG
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by TG »

Duplicate post.
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by TG »

Just another canuck wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:11 pm
Aviatard wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:49 am
It’s a word that angry, contrarian anti-vaxxers use to describe normal people when their lies and phony arguments are exposed as utter bullshit.
You sure like that word… anti-vaxxer. I wish you and the rest of the “government and their media is god” crowd would stop using it as if it makes any sense whatsoever. An anti-vaxxer is someone who isn’t vaccinated against MMR, Polio, Tetanus, Hepatitis, etc., not someone who would like to hold off on having themselves injected with an experimental MRNA vaccine for which we know little of the long term side effects. More and more experts on the subject (sorry, your local GP doesn’t count) are advising against it’s use to the extent at which it is now being pushed. How many boosters are you willing to take? 5? 10? 100?

All you covid hysteria fanatics count yourself in this majority of Canadians who got the covid vax because it’s safe and effective and the right thing to do, blah, blah, blah. But the truth is, the majority of healthy individuals, like myself, only received this clearly largely ineffective vaccine so we could keep the mortgage paid and food on the table. Ask around, you’ll find that to be the case amongst the majority of your peers and colleagues.

What previous vaccine have you received that forced you to wear a mask and socially distance?
What vaccine allows the spread of the virus after vaccination?
What vaccine has been incentivized via rewards, discounts and lotteries?
What vaccine have members of society been discriminated against and demonized for not getting?
Family, work and other personal relationships threatened for or completely annihilated?
Livelihoods, work and school life threatened?
What about a vaccine that allows parental consent to be overruled?
This vaccine (tough calling it that) seems to do a lot and everything except of course provide immunization it seems.
Fully vaxxed, but need a booster… and a negative test… and wear a mask… and still be hospitalized.

At what point will the majority of us realized we’re being deceived?

And another one I don’t like is the term “science denier”… to question science is in itself, the very essence of science. For someone like Fauci to say he “is science” is a joke. Good post floating around states, if we never questioned science, we’d still be using DDT’s, your doctor would be recommending a brand of cigarettes, you’d be drinking cocaine and your kids cough medicine would have opiates and chloroform in it. Go back a little further and the I suppose the world would still be flat.

The extent to which this vaccine has been pushed is ludicrous. It doesn’t work. Or at least does very little. And getting the remaining population vaccinated isn’t going to make things any better. And if we did get them vaxxed and it doesn’t work, you’ll be screaming at the folks who didn’t get a booster, then their 4th and 5th and so on.

Time to live with covid. Eat better. Exercise. Live a healthy lifestyle. Most of us will be fine. Some of us won’t. At the end of the day, people still die for one reason or another. I don’t want to hear about your “perfectly healthy” 85 year old grandfather that died of covid. He died of old age.
Nobody dies of old age anymore and most of what you are saying has been debunked left and right.

Yes! You are some sort of a science denier. Basically feeling threatened by something you don’t gasp or understand. Show me your PhD in Virology if I’m wrong.
Me I don’t understand either all the exact science behind it but I can gasp the problem and see that vaccination’s recommendation is the best solution. Nobody will need to force my hand getting it and all the required shots afterwards.

Back in the middle age when people felt threatened by something they would not gasp or understand (Sciences) They would simply invoke Witchcraft and burn at stake the “Problem”
Somehow we managed to evolve past that but still, they will always be those who will have it “all figured out” and think they know better.



I could see Faucy being put on top of the pyre by some.
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Vaticinator
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Vaticinator »

Ahhh. Another example of a fully vaccinated person being attacked by the mob for the heinous crime of being compliant in action, but not in thought. Once again demonstrating that it isn't enough to merely partake in the sacrament. If your belief isn't strong enough, you still belong in hell.
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photofly
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by photofly »

Just another canuck wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:05 pm
VAERS. Yes. But you can not, nor can anyone say that these deaths were not the result of the vaccine either. They very well could be and it’s highly likely that many of them were.
Fantastic. You've gone from "nobody can say" to saying exactly that, in two sentences. "Nobody can say these deaths are caused by the vaccine, but they could be, and I think they are, so ... they are."
But let’s not forget, sometimes a person’s number is just up. That’s life.
No, no, no. You don't get to give away other people's lives.
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Vaticinator »

The master of the straw man, at it again!

Accepting that we will all die at some point is not "giving away" other people's lives. Not accepting that is childish. And no one is preventing anyone from getting vaccinated. You say vaccines are highly effective at preventing serious outcomes, including death. If you believe that, and are vaccinated, what are you worried about?
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Just another canuck
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Just another canuck »

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Last edited by Just another canuck on Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Accepting that we will all die at some point is not "giving away" other people's lives. Not accepting that is childish. And no one is preventing anyone from getting vaccinated. You say vaccines are highly effective at preventing serious outcomes, including death. If you believe that, and are vaccinated, what are you worried about?
Given the FACT that unvaccinated people with COVID represent about 9 % of the population but between 75 and 90 % of the people in ICU’s, I worry that if I have a stroke or car accident there may not be a bed because people like you made a choice to not protect themselves from getting a bad enough COVID infection they end up in the ICU.

That protection simply involves getting jabbed with a free vaccine approved by the Health Authorities of over 80 countries and for which reliable data on efficacy and side effects is available based on the over 1 Billion people who have had the vaccine

Choices have consequences, not only to you but to fellow Canadians.
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DanWEC
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by DanWEC »

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:21 am
Given the FACT that unvaccinated people with COVID represent about 9 % of the population but between 75 and 90 % of the people in ICU’s, I worry that if I have a stroke or car accident there may not be a bed because people like you made a choice to not protect themselves from getting a bad enough COVID infection they end up in the ICU.
FYI those figures aren't accurate. The only reliable stats aren't from newspapers or articles but straight from the Ontario Health websites.
This week:
Unvaccinated % of population is 22.4%
Unvaccinated % of ICUs are 48%

Your point definitely has merit, but just letting you know that those figures aren't solid if you're relying on them. At least in Ontario. ( I recall you may be out west however, I haven't looked there.)

Personally, I'm not an anti-vaxxer in the slightest. I have a vested interest in mRNA vaccine technology, and was very optimistic when the rollout began. However, I became more and more disillusioned and increasingly skeptical of it's advertised efficacy as the last year trudged along, here we are still in the thick of the same underserved system. The mortality rate seems to have mirrored the changing virulence of the various strains up and down rather than totally quashed by what the protection of the vaccines had promised. Are they effective? Yes, have they completely changed the outcome and timeframe of the pandemic as promised by the CEO's? Of that I have serious reservations.


[https://www.publichealthontario.ca/en/d ... ab=summary]
[https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations]
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Just another canuck
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Just another canuck »

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Hot Wings
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Hot Wings »

Just another canuck wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:02 am
TG wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:32 am Nobody dies of old age anymore and most of what you are saying has been debunked left and right.

Yes! You are some sort of a science denier. Basically feeling threatened by something you don’t gasp or understand. Show me your PhD in Virology if I’m wrong.
Me I don’t understand either all the exact science behind it but I can gasp the problem and see that vaccination’s recommendation is the best solution. Nobody will need to force my hand getting it and all the required shots afterwards.

Back in the middle age when people felt threatened by something they would not gasp or understand (Sciences) They would simply invoke Witchcraft and burn at stake the “Problem”
Somehow we managed to evolve past that but still, they will always be those who will have it “all figured out” and think they know better.
Science denier, eh. I’ve made this point once, but I’ll try again. Questioning science is science. Accepting it as absolute is not. Dr. Malone is a virologist and immunologist and he does not agree with you. He is also the recognized as the creator of mRNA technology. Of course, I haven’t listened to or read his every word, but when someone with that background is cast into the shadows, it certainly puts up some red flags for me. He also has a lot of support from the scientific community, but those are not the people who come up on your google search, twitter feed or nightly newscast. Why not? Must be that pesky misinformation I suppose. Or perhaps their opinion just doesn’t fit the narrative. The simplest explanation is often the right one.

I’ve also made the point about your remark about the middle ages. What you are failing to realize is you are the one with the pitchfork and torch. I and the rest of the minority are being tied to the stake. You only choose to accept what you want to be true and ignore any “science” from the other side because it makes you scared or uncomfortable. It’s a normal response. The masses thought the world was flat, it was the minority that questioned the science.

Here is some information to think about… a good friend of mine got vaxxed about 8 months ago. Since then, her menstrual cycle changed completely. Where, like most women, she could set her clock by it, since the vaccine she now bleeds through her underwear in less than an hour. There are thousands of cases like this. So my question is what is it doing to the reproductive system of young women and prepubescent girls who have yet to reach that age. Will it cause life long issues and/or infertility? We won’t know for years and then we’ll just call them unlucky I guess. They can always adopt. There are news articles coming out now saying, “Well yes, the vax can cause some issues down there, but you should still get it.” I’m paraphrasing of course. What’s it doing to men? My kids may not want their own children, but if they do when they reach that age, I don’t want to be responsible for administering them with the vaccine that did it when they were at little risk of the disease it was meant for.

I don’t have anything against anyone who wants the vaccine. I believe you should weigh the risks and get it if you feel it’s the best choice for you and your children if you have any. But don’t tell me the science is unequivocally sound on this vaccine. It’s not. Anyone who says it is is a liar, scientists included. Dr. Fauci and Dr. Tam and the rest of them can not be trusted. They have an agenda. A lie will spread around the whole world while the truth is still putting its boots on.
photofly wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:46 am No, no, no. You don't get to give away other people's lives.
Knock it off. Give away people’s lives? I was simply stating that people, eventually, die. There are vast array of diseases or accidents that are far more likely to get me than COVID. And despite what most people would like, we have far less control over this than we think.
Vaticinator wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:50 am The master of the straw man, at it again!

Accepting that we will all die at some point is not "giving away" other people's lives. Not accepting that is childish. And no one is preventing anyone from getting vaccinated. You say vaccines are highly effective at preventing serious outcomes, including death. If you believe that, and are vaccinated, what are you worried about?
Exactly. And thank you.
So basically you’re asking people to not make sweeping generalizations about those who are sceptical of vaccines, yet do exactly that about people who oppose your opinion. Got it. This’ll go far.
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Posthumane »

Just another canuck wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:05 pm Below the age of 70, it is no more dangerous than the flu and in younger people, actually has less of a mortality rate.
In the two years leading up to the start of covid (2018-2019) in Canada there were 400-600 deaths from influenza (about 1200 from all acute respiratory infections) in the 60-69 age group compared with 3200 in the two years of covid. In the 50-59 age group it was 200-300 from influenza (~600 from all acute respiratory infections) vs 1300 for two years of covid. In the 40-49 age group it was 70-100 (<200 for all acute respiratory infections) vs 500 from covid. For 30-39 age range it's <50 vs <200, and for 20-29 it's <20 vs 94. The gap gets smaller the younger you go but for all adults the mortality risk associated with covid is several times higher than the mortality risk associated with influenza, and greater than the risk of all other causes of acute respiratory illness (bacterial, fungal pneumonia, etc.) combined. Once you get down into pediatric ages the mortality risk is similar to the mortality risk of all other acute respiratory illnesses.
Just another canuck wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:02 am Questioning science is science. Accepting it as absolute is not.
Using empirical data or observations to show that a commonly accepted fact is wrong is definitely science. Simply throwing out other people's observations with statements like "I’m sceptical of many of these “studies” as they are in large part, an arm of the largest propaganda machine to ever be aimed at the human race" is definitely not science, and I think science denial is an apt description. Simply being skeptical of a study or a piece of information is not enough, you have to actually act on that skepticism and test an alternate hypothesis in order to disprove something.
Just another canuck wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:05 pm I could argue that the large percentage of “deaths due to COVID” were not COVID deaths at all, but the result of an unhealthy person with a less than average immune system. The 400 pound diabetic with heart disease did not die because of COVID. They died because of the lifestyle they lived. The 70 + year old did not die because of COVID. They died because they are frail and their immune system could not handle the disease, just as they would have performed poorly against the flu, pneumonia or a bad infection.
You could argue that, but then you need to come up with an explanation of why those same vulnerable people are dying at a significantly higher rate than they were in previous years. Prior to the spread of the omicron variant the mortality rate amongst confirmed cases was 2-3x the all cause mortality rate of a comparable cross section of the population, so even if every death of a covid-positive person was counted as a covid death it would only account for a fraction of them.
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Vaticinator »

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:21 am Given the FACT that unvaccinated people with COVID represent about 9 % of the population but between 75 and 90 % of the people in ICU’s, I worry that if I have a stroke or car accident there may not be a bed because people like you made a choice to not protect themselves from getting a bad enough COVID infection they end up in the ICU.
Is winding up in the ICU a normal thing for you to worry about in your day to day?

Your worries seem to be based on either bad, or no data. For starters, I'm fully vaccinated and I'll wager I take better care of my health than most of the people who believe they have a right to tell me what to do with my health choices. So you can scratch me completely off the list of your worries. Furthermore, do you have any reliable, non-anecdotal data from any province that shows that their ICUs are filled? This excuse of "clogged" ICUs is continuously bandied about, yet no one has actually produced any provincial stats from anywhere that indicates that they are at capacity. Maybe instead of hurling accusations on anonymous websites you should be writing your MP to ask for more ICU beds if you're really that concerned. But I'm guessing you're actually not.

My guess is that most people who share your level of fear and concern (which you are entitled to) are actually just annoyed that not everyone is as afraid as you, and thus, you feel they aren't taking it as seriously as you are. Why else would you take issue with someone such as myself who has fully complied every step of the way through the last two years? The pandemic is about as bad as it has ever been, but as you pointed out the unvaccinated represent 9% of the population (your figure, not mine). You really believe that 9% of the population, who are largely not allowed to interact with most of society now, are responsible for the state things are in? Or is it possible that all of our collective countermeasures are not as effective as we previously thought? To clarify, I'm not strictly referring to vaccines here, but also masking, "social" distancing, double masking, vaccine passports, curfews, lockdowns, etc. Now before you and the rest get your panties in a bunch, I'm not suggesting that some of those things are not without their merits or that we shouldn't do some of these things. But why do you people insist on calling me an anti vaxxer for simply suggesting these things might not work as well as we're being lead to believe?

You can choose to live your life fearful and angry at your fellow man for not being as fearful as you, or you can choose to do the very best you can to improve your own chances at staying healthy. I know, you all get upset when I raise the spectre of personal responsibility for your own health. It's much easier to shift that responsibility onto someone else. But the reality is that YOU can do many, many times more to protect YOURSELF than any choice any stranger makes could possibly do for you. YOU can get the vaccine. YOU can reduce any comorbidities that are within your power to affect, of which there are many. If it helps ease your mind, pre-print figures are now out that indicate your risk of ending up in an ICU due to omicron are 0.26%. You're probably going to be just fine. Just like you probably have been this whole time.
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

Post by Aviatard »

Vaticinator wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:40 pm Is winding up in the ICU a normal thing for you to worry about in your day to day?
Is making an account on here for the sole purpose of posting about vaccines or covid, and nothing else, a normal thing? That's 3 posts per day for a solid month and a half.
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Re: Toronto Hospital 70% Unvaccinated

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