Experience with plane sharing

[rarkon]

Hi all, I am wondering what people's experiences with plane sharing is? Was it hard to find pilot to share costs with? How often did members leave the agreement? What sorts of plane did you buy together? The cost of owning of buying an airplane doesn't seem justified with how often I would fly it. I estimate I would only fly 80ish hours a year. I would buy an ultralight, but this forum has kind of scared me off that. Any advice is appreciated.

[PeterParker]

Make sure you read through this...
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=153045


Not trying to dissuade you from doing it, just make sure you pay a lawyer at the get go and have a good contract agreeable to all parties and covers all bases including a nuclear option. Better pay a lawyer a little money up front than a bunch of them a bunch of money later on...

[digits_]

Hi all, I am wondering what people's experiences with plane sharing is? Was it hard to find pilot to share costs with? How often did members leave the agreement? What sorts of plane did you buy together? The cost of owning of buying an airplane doesn't seem justified with how often I would fly it. I estimate I would only fly 80ish hours a year. I would buy an ultralight, but this forum has kind of scared me off that. Any advice is appreciated.

80 hours for a private plane is a lot. Likely even enough that you would have scheduling conflicts with other partners.

[RockSalty]

I did the plane share thing for a bit with 8 other people. We had an excellent agreement and basically everything came down to majority rules - if over half of us wanted an upgrade to glass or to get the seats redone, it was happening. We ran it as an LLC and "rented" the plane out to ourselves at an hourly rate that covered gas + some calculations for mx, and charged a monthly fee to cover fixed costs. This meant we always had a fairly hefty sum saved for anything breaking or needing upgrades. We never once had to fork over any extra cash to get something fixed.

The key is to make sure you're sharing it with a good bunch of people. We couldn't just sell to any random pilot - you'd find a buyer and then could only sell your share to them if there were no objections from everyone else. Between the 9 of us we knew (or knew someone that would know) basically every local pilot so it was an easy way to keep problematic people out.

In my experience there were only 3 or 4 of us that would regularly fly it and the other owners were basically just making the insurance and hangar cheaper for us lol. I was doing maybe 70 hours a year on average, and in the couple of years I owned it I had maybe two schedule conflicts with the other owners. We just used a Google calendar to block time out for ourselves, and the agreement was "don't be an @sshole" - don't book it for two weeks straight and then fly it for an hour etc, don't go and book every single weekend etc etc etc. I once wanted to take the plane on a two week trip so asked everyone nicely if they had any issues with it before booking it.

Overall my experience was great and it saved me a huge amount of money.

[photofly]

Not trying to dissuade you from doing it, just make sure you pay a lawyer at the get go

Absolutely not. If you pay a lawyer to write you an agreement, you'll get an agreement only a lawyer would write.

A written agreement is pretty much a requirement, but you have to realize that any attempt to enforce any kind of agreement is going to cost you more than your share of the airplane is worth. An agreement is what friends use to avoid misunderstandings. That's all.

The key is to make sure you're sharing it with a good bunch of people.

This is correct.

[Bede]

Here's our partnership agreement. Our biggest issue is that a couple of the partners don't fly enough but don't want to sell.

Aircraft Partnership Agreement
An Agreement between:
A
-and-
B
-and-
C (the Partners)

Preamble
1. Whereas the parties (Partners) wish to enter a partnership Agreement with respect to a 1975 Cessna 150 aircraft s/n 15012345, registered as C-GXXX (herein after referred to as the Aircraft).
2. Whereas the previous owners of the Aircraft, A, and B wish to re-establish the terms and parties of the partnership and allow for an additional Partner.
3. Whereas C has exited the partnership described in the previous partnership Agreement and has transferred his share of the title of the Aircraft to A.
4. Whereas this Agreement supersedes all previous partnership Agreements.
5. Whereas C wishes to purchase a share of the Aircraft and enter into a partnership Agreement with the existing Partners who own the Aircraft.

Consideration
6. C wishes to purchase a one-quarter share of the Aircraft from A for a sum of $875,500 CAD (the 150 is made of gold:). B is already a one-quarter shareholder of the Aircraft.

Title Assignment
7. With the execution of this Agreement, A retains title to one-half of the Aircraft. B and C each own one-quarter of the title of the Aircraft.

Division of Expenses
8. All maintenance costs will be paid equally by the three Partners.
9. All fuel costs shall be paid by the Partner incurring the fuel expense.
10. Fixed costs, including, but not limited to, insurance and parking, will be paid equally by the three Partners.

Engine Reserve Account
11. Partners will set up an Engine Reserve Account. On a quarterly basis, each partner will remit an amount of $18/hr air time that they flew to the administrator of the Engine Reserve Account to be used in the event of an engine overhaul or major repair.
12. Should the partnership dissolve and the Aircraft sold outright, the monies in the Engine Reserve Account shall be disbursed to each Partner equally.

Incidents
13. In the event that the Aircraft is damaged, the Partner who acted as the pilot-in-command or trainee at the time of the incident shall be responsible for payment of any deductible and all increases in insurance premiums.
14. In the event that the aircraft is damaged when “not-in-motion”, all Partners will equally be responsible for payment of the deductible.

Location of Aircraft
15. The Aircraft shall be parked at the Kakabeka Falls Airport (CKG8) or Thunder Bay Airport (CYQT) unless agreed upon by all Partners.

Scheduling
16. The Aircraft is available to any of the Partners or their licensed family members on a first come first serve basis.

Selling of Shares
17. Should a Partner wish to exit the partnership, existing Partners should have right of first refusal. The selling Partner shall present the remaining partners with a written offer. The remaining Partners have seven days to match the offer. Should no remaining Partner wish to purchase the share at the price offered, the selling Partner shall sell his share to the offering Partner. The offering Partner shall become a party to this Agreement.
18. At no time shall any selling Partner be entitled to any monies in the Engine Reserve Account.

Air Regulations
19. The Partners agree to maintain the Aircraft in accordance with the approved maintenance schedule.
20. The Partners agree to operate the Aircraft with reasonable and prudent care and airmanship and in accordance with the Canadian Aviation Regulations and the limitations contained within the applicable Pilot Operating Handbook.

Liability
21. The Partners shall maintain liability and hull insurance coverage not less than the value of the Aircraft.
22. Should a Partner (Delinquent Partner) not pay their share of expenses within 30 days of the expenses becoming due, the remaining Partners may: 1) vote to have the Delinquent Partner removed from the partnership, and/or 2) seek to collect outstanding expenses through a Small Claims Court action. In the event of option 1, the Delinquent Partner shall be paid the fair market value of the Aircraft, as determined by the remaining Partners at their discretion, or the share purchase amount, whichever is lower, minus the outstanding amounts. The Delinquent Partner shall forthwith issue a Bill of Sale to the remaining Partners. Title of the Aircraft shall transfer from the Delinquent Partner to the remaining Partners.
23. No Partner shall make any claim against any other Partner party to this Agreement, related to the operation of the Aircraft, except for non-payment of expenses.
Signed, this _______ day of ___________________, _______.
A, B, C

[Col. Panic]

Plane sharing is a bit like wife sharing…. It can work out really well for you, or it can turn into a miserable, expensive mess. In both cases, do your homework, and make sure you find a “relationship” that is going to work for your wants/needs.

[Pilotdaddy]

Plane sharing worked out very well for me. I got lucky and fell into a group who barely flew, so I essentially had access to the plane 24/7. Nothing blew up during the time I had the share. To top it off, I was then able to sell the share for more than what I had paid to get in. As for costs, I was flying it at something ridiculous ~$22/hr dry, which you will not find at an FTU, nor via blocktime.

Of course, this could've blown up in my face by splitting an engine overhaul, easily making my costs 4-5x... that or I could be stuck with a non-desirable partner or two. Our agreement was pretty solid but I argue that even the tightest agreements can't prevent conflicts/stalemate if one partner or two digs his or her heels in on a particular issue.

With a plane share, you're very much buying into the group of people themselves versus the actual plane. Choose the people carefully, get a bit of luck, and then I think a plane share works well.

[rarkon]

Thanks for all the replies. It sounds like plane sharing isn't always a disaster.

[JasonE]

I have done plane sharing, club ownership, and renting from a private owner. All have worked out well but the expectations were clear from the start.