Flat pay and unions...

[NotDirty!]

Can't anyone post what a yr 5 FO makes after taxes? I understand there's many types just curious.

Year 4 pay is $87.20 per hour, for all types, for FO or RP positions.
Year 5 pay varies from $93.05 for a 787 RP, day rate, to $109.58 for an A220 FO, day rate, all the way up to $165.49 for a 777 FO, night rate. There are probably still a few year 5 pilots receiving narrow body captain pay, which is up to $228.14 per hour for an A320 CA, night rate.

For rough guesstimates, plan on about 1000 credit hours per year, half day, half night. And assume you take home half of that.

[Malfunction]

Thxs.

[rudder]

Year 2 NB FO pay at top 6 US carriers is USD$140/hr.

Just sayin.

AC better hope the border never opens for pilots.

[Col. Panic]

Year 2 NB FO pay at top 6 US carriers is USD$140/hr.

Just sayin.

AC better hope the border never opens for pilots.

Most year 2 FOs at major US carriers took home more last year than most narrow body captains at AC. Good thing the cost of living is so much less in YYZ and YVR than in ATL/DFW/etc.

[PeterParker]

I’m not seeing the issue in what he said? Your flighties don’t deliver your coffee? He didn’t say they only make coffee. They certainly shouldn’t be paid more than the FO though.

The argument we ought to make should be to pay the FOs more and not to force AC to pay the FAs less. This is why the fat cats at the top continue to get fatter while chewing all the meat off the bone of all the employees doing the real work.

[lownslow]

AC better hope the border never opens for pilots.

I always just sort of assumed they’re a big part of the reason it remains closed.

[Sharklasers]

I’m not seeing the issue in what he said? Your flighties don’t deliver your coffee? He didn’t say they only make coffee. They certainly shouldn’t be paid more than the FO though.

The argument we ought to make should be to pay the FOs more and not to force AC to pay the FAs less. This is why the fat cats at the top continue to get fatter while chewing all the meat off the bone of all the employees doing the real work.

No one is arguing for FAs to be paid less. He is saying that the other employee groups and the Canadian populace at large will not support a group of 1-2%ers striking for more. That’s why we were and will likely always be legislated back to work. The Canadian crabs in a bucket mentality. Further the company has to bargain under the threat of a ‘me too’ clause from CUPE. Which means that any gain for the pilot group has to account for the cost of passing that benefit along to the FAs. Improvements to their contracts do in fact come at a cost to ours, a 25% pay raise which would still leave us at very best average among the legacy carriers would need to be passed along to the FAs who are already at par or paid greater than their peer airlines.

LETTER OF UNDERSTANDING 35: COLA AND “ME TOO”

L35.01
In conjunction with the effective date of the annualized uplifts agreed to by the parties and set out in Article 5 of the collective agreement, wage increases will be subject to further negotiations if:
i. other bargaining agents (ACPA, ALPA, CAW, IAMAW, or CALDA) have negotiated higher percentage wage uplifts effective before the expiry of the CUPE collective agreement;
or
ii. the consumer price index of the previous year exceeds the wage increases by more than one (1.0%) percent for any of the three (3) calendar years referenced in Article 5 of the collective agreement.
Note: In the event other bargaining units achieve a higher percentage increase as a result of demonstrable productivity or work rule changes, such will be taken into consideration should further negotiation on wages be required.

https://alberta.cupe.ca/files/2020/01/C ... dacted.pdf

[schnitzel2k3]

Year 2 NB FO pay at top 6 US carriers is USD$140/hr.

Just sayin.

AC better hope the border never opens for pilots.

This. lol.

[RVR6000]

I’m not seeing the issue in what he said? Your flighties don’t deliver your coffee? He didn’t say they only make coffee. They certainly shouldn’t be paid more than the FO though.

The argument we ought to make should be to pay the FOs more and not to force AC to pay the FAs less. This is why the fat cats at the top continue to get fatter while chewing all the meat off the bone of all the employees doing the real work.

No one is arguing for FAs to be paid less. He is saying that the other employee groups and the Canadian populace at large will not support a group of 1-2%ers striking for more. That’s why we were and will likely always be legislated back to work. The Canadian crabs in a bucket mentality. Further the company has to bargain under the threat of a ‘me too’ clause from CUPE. Which means that any gain for the pilot group has to account for the cost of passing that benefit along to the FAs. Improvements to their contracts do in fact come at a cost to ours, a 25% pay raise which would still leave us at very best average among the legacy carriers would need to be passed along to the FAs who are already at par or paid greater than their peer airlines.

Did the FA pay rates take a massive hit in 2012? Did they ‘me-too’ the pay hits we took across the board for all FO and RP positions?

The companies negotiation with other labour unions shouldn’t be any of our concern.

[TheStig]

Year 2 NB FO pay at top 6 US carriers is USD$140/hr.

Just sayin.

AC better hope the border never opens for pilots.

Most year 2 FOs at major US carriers took home more last year than most narrow body captains at AC. Good thing the cost of living is so much less in YYZ and YVR than in ATL/DFW/etc.

The latest bid at Delta awarded 737 NYC Captain to a November 2021 Hire. $261USD/Hour or just over $330 Canadian pesos.

[Col. Panic]

Year 2 NB FO pay at top 6 US carriers is USD$140/hr.

Just sayin.

AC better hope the border never opens for pilots.

Most year 2 FOs at major US carriers took home more last year than most narrow body captains at AC. Good thing the cost of living is so much less in YYZ and YVR than in ATL/DFW/etc.

The latest bid at Delta awarded 737 NYC Captain to a November 2021 Hire. $261USD/Hour or just over $330 Canadian pesos.

Or slightly more than the year 12 777 Captain Night rate at AC.
Or in other words, someone hired since my car’s last oil change will be earning more than any pilot at The NHL of airlines.

[schnitzel2k3]

Most year 2 FOs at major US carriers took home more last year than most narrow body captains at AC. Good thing the cost of living is so much less in YYZ and YVR than in ATL/DFW/etc.

The latest bid at Delta awarded 737 NYC Captain to a November 2021 Hire. $261USD/Hour or just over $330 Canadian pesos.

Or slightly more than the year 12 777 Captain Night rate at AC.
Or in other words, someone hired since my car’s last oil change will be earning more than any pilot at The NHL of airlines.

Oh, but don't worry guys, they don't compete in that market. They shouldn't have to compare those wages to theirs.

[RVR6000]

Record revenue announced today from Cargo ops. Which suckers voted for a 10% pay cut.

Gaining 2% annually on a 10% discounted rate isn’t a gain. But ACPA will sell you as one, and it appears AC pilots are just bad at math.

[Col. Panic]

Record revenue announced today from Cargo ops. Which suckers voted for a 10% pay cut.

Gaining 2% annually on a 10% discounted rate isn’t a gain. But ACPA will sell you as one, and it appears AC pilots are just bad at math.

So let me get this straight…. A 2% increase on a 10% discounted rate, with 5% inflation… 2 x 10 x 5 = 100%! That’s a win, if I ever saw one!!

[Inverted2]

Record revenue announced today from Cargo ops. Which suckers voted for a 10% pay cut.

Gaining 2% annually on a 10% discounted rate isn’t a gain. But ACPA will sell you as one, and it appears AC pilots are just bad at math.

So let me get this straight…. A 2% increase on a 10% discounted rate, with 5% inflation… 2 x 10 x 5 = 100%! That’s a win, if I ever saw one!!

Inflation is way more than 5%. Just sayin. Gas is up nearly 40% from last year alone. I had to listen to mom complain on the phone that butter is now $7.50/lb.

[DanWEC]

Inflation is only 5% if you don't need to eat, drive, or live indoors.

[Stu Pidasso]

There was a major attempt to get control of FA pay at the start of Rouge. Very much a Max Ward philosophy of positioning the job to not be a career. The initial Rouge plan was to get five years out them and then have them quit or get fired, barely paid them minimum wage.

No shortage of applicants, they were lined up around the block.

Didn't last very long until CUPE got them merged with mainline and the rest is history. Fact is we have some of the highest paid FA's in North America and the lowest paid Pilots. Should we give a sh@t - damn right.

Is it our own fault, absolutely!

I case you missed a recent string on Yammer where a FA went on about how they should deadhead in Business class before a Pilot, seniority is the only currency that matters. Find me an Airline (on the PLANET) that would ever upgrade a FA over a Pilot!

Then we have the IAM mess where the AME's and the Rampies are in the same bargaining unit. AME's are the most underpaid Profession in the Airline. Dramatically outnumbered by the Rampies, who have complete control of the agenda. The shortage of skilled AME's is going to cause a havoc in the near future.

[RRJetPilot]

I use yammer for entertainment. Its HILARIOUS to read the FA forum. Cant even imagine what they write in a more private forum. Fact is they don't want to work, don't feel "safe", complain and bitch, etc etc etc.

Also don't they have a me too clause where if the pilots get any gains at all they will too? How fucked up is that? I understand their job can be annoying at times but it is NOT a skilled profession and takes a 1 week course now to train.

[Sharklasers]

I use yammer for entertainment. Its HILARIOUS to read the FA forum. Cant even imagine what they write in a more private forum. Fact is they don't want to work, don't feel "safe", complain and bitch, etc etc etc.

Also don't they have a me too clause where if the pilots get any gains at all they will too? How fucked up is that? I understand their job can be annoying at times but it is NOT a skilled profession and takes a 1 week course now to train.

That is a fact.
LETTER OF UNDERSTANDING 35: COLA AND “ME TOO”

L35.01
In conjunction with the effective date of the annualized uplifts agreed to by the parties and set out in Article 5 of the collective agreement, wage increases will be subject to further negotiations if:
i. other bargaining agents (ACPA, ALPA, CAW, IAMAW, or CALDA) have negotiated higher percentage wage uplifts effective before the expiry of the CUPE collective agreement;
or
ii. the consumer price index of the previous year exceeds the wage increases by more than one (1.0%) percent for any of the three (3) calendar years referenced in Article 5 of the collective agreement.
Note: In the event other bargaining units achieve a higher percentage increase as a result of demonstrable productivity or work rule changes, such will be taken into consideration should further negotiation on wages be required.

[RRJetPilot]

I use yammer for entertainment. Its HILARIOUS to read the FA forum. Cant even imagine what they write in a more private forum. Fact is they don't want to work, don't feel "safe", complain and bitch, etc etc etc.

Also don't they have a me too clause where if the pilots get any gains at all they will too? How fucked up is that? I understand their job can be annoying at times but it is NOT a skilled profession and takes a 1 week course now to train.

That is a fact.
LETTER OF UNDERSTANDING 35: COLA AND “ME TOO”

L35.01
In conjunction with the effective date of the annualized uplifts agreed to by the parties and set out in Article 5 of the collective agreement, wage increases will be subject to further negotiations if:
i. other bargaining agents (ACPA, ALPA, CAW, IAMAW, or CALDA) have negotiated higher percentage wage uplifts effective before the expiry of the CUPE collective agreement;
or
ii. the consumer price index of the previous year exceeds the wage increases by more than one (1.0%) percent for any of the three (3) calendar years referenced in Article 5 of the collective agreement.
Note: In the event other bargaining units achieve a higher percentage increase as a result of demonstrable productivity or work rule changes, such will be taken into consideration should further negotiation on wages be required.

Absolutely ridiculous.