Onex buying Sunwing ?

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pilot4life
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by pilot4life »

They will paint the sunwing aircrafts teal. Merge the pilot lists and open a YUL hub. This is what will happen
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boeingboy
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by boeingboy »

I'm sure eventually it will...how long that will be is anyone's guess right now.

However - for now - Sunwing Airlines will continue to be part of the new tour operator division flying exclusively for the tour
operators and therefore the airlines will continue to operate independently.

It may be that it ends up staying seperate - much like Swoop. Maybe as a competitor to Rouge.
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by CaptainHaddock »

If it makes it through regulatory approval I would imagine Sunwing Airlines will be rolled into one of the current WestJet AOC’s. Encore’s current contract specifies ‘no jets’, I am sure WJ management would love to put it under Swoop’s LOU- but while the regulatory process runs it’s course WJ Pilots are concurrently negotiating our next contract (which encompasses the Swoop crap LOU) . Hopefully they get rolled into the WJ Pilot contract as it’s better for everyone. I would assume the Sunwing AC will be painted in either WJ or Swoop livery in the end so they can be deployed wherever needed.

For a first arbitrated contract it certainly is getting every section worked over, purchase by ONEX, biggest aviation downturn, now merging seniority’s. The PTA could end up being a PITA for the SunWing pilots, but like Rumsfeld said ‘there are the known unknowns, and the unknown unknowns’.
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by boeingboy »

The biggest u
CaptainHaddock wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:10 pm If it makes it through regulatory approval I would imagine Sunwing Airlines will be rolled into one of the current WestJet AOC’s. Encore’s current contract specifies ‘no jets’, I am sure WJ management would love to put it under Swoop’s LOU- but while the regulatory process runs it’s course WJ Pilots are concurrently negotiating our next contract (which encompasses the Swoop crap LOU) . Hopefully they get rolled into the WJ Pilot contract as it’s better for everyone. I would assume the Sunwing AC will be painted in either WJ or Swoop livery in the end so they can be deployed wherever needed.

For a first arbitrated contract it certainly is getting every section worked over, purchase by ONEX, biggest aviation downturn, now merging seniority’s. The PTA could end up being a PITA for the SunWing pilots, but like Rumsfeld said ‘there are the known unknowns, and the unknown unknowns’.
Right now the biggest unknown unknown is what Stephen Hunter negotiated. He brings a lot of pull to the table, He has said that Sunwing travel group which includes the airline all report to him, including the pilot group, and he reports to Onex. He may have insisted that the airline remian to his side. All the hotels are still owned solely by him...and that's a lot of hotels, so there was a lot of negotiating power. Most of this deal seems very leveraged towards Sunwing. Almost like they bought Westjet vacations and joined the Onex umbrella.

Obviously there are going to be changes...but what and to what extent are completely up in the air.
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Arnie Pye
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by Arnie Pye »

CaptainHaddock wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:10 pm The PTA could end up being a PITA for the SunWing pilots, but like Rumsfeld said ‘there are the known unknowns, and the unknown unknowns’.
It could just as likely be a PITA for the WestJet pilots. It will definitely be one for the Encore and Swoop pilots.

My guess is that a fence will go up for 1-2 years while the details get hammered out. After that, the lists will be merged and people will be free to shuffle around. By then everything will be rebranded and repainted. It would mean that a senior Sunwing guy could bid 787 and the Sunwing FO's could just as easily hold a mainline WS captain position. Deployments will likely be a thing of the past as this is too far outside of the normal WS business model and they were always based on reciprocity.
What will make this less difficult is that the industry is still expected to grow. If there was shrinkage of tails, everyone would get screwed. That's not likely to happen unless we enter a major post-pandemic recession or economic stagnation.
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by TFTMB heavy »

DanWEC wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:59 am I can't see the WJ and TS fleets being compatible outside of the codeshare which is currently being drawn up. It's Boeing vs Bus.
With the desire for lower prices and increasing downward pressure on CASM, efficiency is key and fleet consolidation is one of biggest factors for operational reasons as well as purchasing negots.
I have no idea what will happen with Transat, but with the interest accruing on financing they somehow need to start turning a profit in a year, find more LTF, or get bought.
Fleet commonality is a good point but the way the EU did everything they could to deter AC I would guess that if Onex wanted TS they would have to run it separately and also keep the TS headquarters in Quebec to capitalize on the market.
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by Old fella »

Well… whatever. Just another merger/re-alignment/buyout, various aircraft will be repainted/re-allocated/returned/disposed of,flight crews will come/go/retire/move on. It’s another “episode” of season whatever in the series called Airlines. In the meantime the sun will still rise in the east and set in the west

:wink:
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ALPApolicy
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by ALPApolicy »

I think this is a win-win for both pilot groups. There might be some short term pain as the merger process occurs, but in the medium/long term the purchase helps secure the future of both the WestJet and SunWing brands.
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Greasy Greaser
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by Greasy Greaser »

ALPApolicy wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:04 pm I think this is a win-win for both pilot groups. There might be some short term pain as the merger process occurs, but in the medium/long term the purchase helps secure the future of both the WestJet and SunWing brands.
Completely agree.

When and IF the time comes, I really hope and think we will merge lists DOH and no one gets BOTL just because. Only issue is I can't see how this will be done with separate CBA (Encore) hanging onto the list. It would be almost career ending for those at Sunwing, still bad for any mainline FOs currently 2016 doh'ish or junior and we can forget any new hires at wj/sun/swoop in the future.

This could propel us forward so many years if we finally get our act together.
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by aerobod »

So the question is, will Onex acquire CargoJet next with the upcoming cargo emphasis, to complete the set of IATA codes of Canadian operators beginning with “W”? They have four of the five so far (WG, WO, WR, WS), is W8 next? :D
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cloak
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by cloak »

Greasy Greaser wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:42 pm … Only issue is I can't see how this will be done with separate CBA (Encore) hanging onto the list. It would be almost career ending for those at Sunwing, still bad for any mainline FOs currently 2016 doh'ish or junior and we can forget any new hires at wj/sun/swoop in the future.
This could propel us forward so many years if we finally get our act together.
It likely creates challenges for recruiting at mainline/Swoop too and a better solution for retention at all companies might have been giving Encore YOS upon flow as opposed to reserved seniority. However, what do you mean by your last sentence?
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by ToolShed »

aerobod wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:44 pm So the question is, will Onex acquire CargoJet next with the upcoming cargo emphasis, to complete the set of IATA codes of Canadian operators beginning with “W”? They have four of the five so far (WG, WO, WR, WS), is W8 next? :D
That's a tad nerdy. 8)
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dialdriver
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by dialdriver »

pilot4life wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:30 am They will paint the sunwing aircrafts teal. Merge the pilot lists and open a YUL hub. This is what will happen
Aircraft will not likely be painted teal. The Sunwing brand will remain in order to retain the customer base, which is what this is about.
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Mac08
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by Mac08 »

All these Sunwing people happy to join under the disaster that ONEX/WJ management is. How long till Sunwing morale tanks to Westjet employee levels?
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YYJ_Jeff
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by YYJ_Jeff »

boeingboy wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:18 am So it sounds like Sunwing vacations - which includes everything but the hotels - is operating as a standalone company under the Onex umbrella. So Westjet, Westjet cargo, and Swoop will be sister companies to Sunwing travel which will now be the tour group. This new division will be headed by Stephen hunter. everyone in the airline still reports to Stephen and he reports to the Onyx board.

So for now - it sounds like we are owned by Onex as a separate company, how long that lasts is anyone's guess....
No, you (SWG) will be owned by the WestJet Group which is owned by Onex. Stephen Hunter will report to the CEO of the WestJet Group and it's BOD.
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by DHC-1 Jockey »

YYJ_Jeff wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:26 pm No, you (SWG) will be owned by the WestJet Group which is owned by Onex. Stephen Hunter will report to the CEO of the WestJet Group and it's BOD.
In the Sunwing townhall yesterday, Stephen Hunter said that He ONLY reports directly to ONEX and not WestJet. He made that very clear.
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ALPApolicy
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by ALPApolicy »

DHC-1 Jockey wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:59 pm
YYJ_Jeff wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:26 pm No, you (SWG) will be owned by the WestJet Group which is owned by Onex. Stephen Hunter will report to the CEO of the WestJet Group and it's BOD.
In the Sunwing townhall yesterday, Stephen Hunter said that He ONLY reports directly to ONEX and not WestJet. He made that very clear.
Our new CEO is German and therefore does not have much of a sense of humour.

HERR HUNTER IST HIERUNTER WESTJET!!!!!

Verstehen Sie?

HERR HUNTER IST HIERUNTER!!!
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by tbaylx »

DHC-1 Jockey wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:59 pm
YYJ_Jeff wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:26 pm No, you (SWG) will be owned by the WestJet Group which is owned by Onex. Stephen Hunter will report to the CEO of the WestJet Group and it's BOD.
In the Sunwing townhall yesterday, Stephen Hunter said that He ONLY reports directly to ONEX and not WestJet. He made that very clear.
The SWG and WJA townhalls were very different and there was considerably more information given to the employees at WJA. WJA is not going to run 4 different AOC's for very long.
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by imjustlurking »

The EU has no stake in this merger and will not shoot it down. They had an issue with the two main brands serving the EU/Canada market becoming the sole dominative brand (AC, TS)

The merging of Sunwing and WestJet pilots will happen and it will be very messy. In the end, the likely outcome is that SWG pilots slot in based on their date of hire and they ditch their current "union" to join WJ in ALPA.

The Hunters keep their finger in as many pies as they can while offloading the unprofitable airline and mostly-profitable travel agency to reduce their financial risk while maintaining a guaranteed funnel of customers to their hotels.

I don't know what Onex is doing, but it seems that they are trying to turn WestJet into a "funk you" to the airline industry by competing with as many companies in as many markets as they possibly can. I am concerned for the future of WestJet.
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boeingboy
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Re: Onex buying Sunwing ?

Post by boeingboy »

WJA is not going to run 4 different AOC's for very long.
Of this I have no doubt. Eventually I see it will be folded into the mainline (or swoop). I can see some of the Westjet owned tails being painted in the Sunwing scheme for branding. The pilots and cabin crews will merge - with our side getting the very short end of the stick. Whether this happens Jan 1 2023 or sometime in 2026 or more could only be answered by the upper echelon - and at this point they probably don't even know.

I guess the only straw I could hope for is that Westjet is making a serious competitor to Rouge. This makes the most sense to me. As a business - A Westjet/Sunwing would crush AC Rouge in the vacation market. How they execute that is really anyone's guess right now.

From a strictly personal point of view - it would make sense to me (business wise) to fold Swoop into the new vacation division and have mainline simply offer a swoop class of fairs (much like AC did with Tango) As was said - running multiple AOC's doesn't make sense in the long run.
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