Sunwing/Westjet

[ALPApolicy]

Since Vanguard has chosen to attack me personally and avoided adding any well thought out counterpoints to my arguments, I shall update the aviation community on my current belief on how things stand.

I will not be shrinking in embarrassment, but some people will.

I take no joy in what follows.

I started off my last leg today, YYZ to YYC believing I would be filing a Breach of Contract action against ALPA in BC Supreme Court in the next few days. As long time readers of this space will be aware, ALPA was constitutionally required to use "whatever means at its command" in order to achieve a DOH seniority list at WestJet. In the WSW/WJA CBA, they did not do that.

I believe a DFR challenge in front of the CIRB could have been brought within 90 days of finding out the state of the seniority list, and I believe it had a fair chance of success. But no affected OTS pilot did so. It wasn't my battle to fight so I let it go.

In addition to the DFR challenge, I believe a Breach of Contract action in civil court had a chance of success. But the two year limitation period on that action expired around December 2020. It wasn't my fight so I let it go. I had educated pilots publicly on what I believed to be the truth.

With the PTA signing in Dec 12, 2019, once again I believed ALPA had violated the Constitution and a DFR claim with its 90 day window was again activated with no action on the part of affected OTS pilots. I let it go.

The two year limitation period for another Breach of Contract claim closed on December 12, 2021. At least I then believed so.

I had put this issue behind me. No one had bargained away my seniority rights. Then the Sunwing purchase was announced. After reviewing seniority list merger procedures once again, and once again dispelling the myth of common employer between Encore and WestJet, I realized we had a problem with our list. Well, I always knew that.

After spending the last few weeks looking at our chances in a seniority list integration, I believed ALPA's actions with regard to seniority list construction was going to hurt us.

Yesterday I discovered that British Columbia had paused all running limitation periods for one calendar year due to COVID-19. Once again, the window was open to sue ALPA for the Breach due their negotiation of the PTA with its super-seniority provisions to Encore pilots flowing since December 12, 2019.

I believed I had standing to file as a member of the bargaining unit to sue ALPA seeking the remedies of damages to OTS pilots denied legitimate bidding awards. I would seek specific performance in the cancellation of the PTA on the basis it was in contravention of the Constitution. I would seek general financial damages due to the harm inflicted on our bargaining unit in the form of our damaged position in upcoming seniority list merger talks.

Those are the things I would have sought, and enlisted the aid of OTS pilots harmed by ALPA's malfeasance.

[ALPApolicy]

Today however, I reviewed the PTA thoroughly. I started with the assumption that the Pilot Seniority List, the PSL/WPSL was still in effect. As a reminder, nothing in the PTA extinguished the PSL. Indeed, the PSL is mentioned in the recall LOU of April 2, 2021.

You have to keep in mind always that the PTA was designed as a program to enable transfers between WJ group companies. Period.

The WSW/WJA CBA clearly specifies what seniority is, how it is calculated, how you earn it, how it is removed. The PSL is clearly the seniority list for use in vacancy awards, upgrades, downgrades, layoffs, recalls, reserve line awards.

None of the seniority provisions of the CBA were modified by the PTA. None.

When a new hire OTS pilot is hired at WSW/WJA, he/she is placed at the bottom of two lists:

1) The WSW/WJA CBA generated PSL/WPSL, and
2) The PTA generated transfer protocol list masquerading as a seniority list but is not.

When an Encore pilot transfers to Swoop or WestJet, they are placed at the bottom of one list:

The WSW/WJA PSL/WPSL.

There is no effect on their placement on the PTA generated quote Seniority List unquote because that position is established by their Encore DOH and does not change relative to other pilots on the list.

The PTA generated quote Seniority List unquote is described under the PTA Section misguidingly titled

SENIORITY

2.01 A combined seniority list, known as the “Seniority List,” shall be created through the process provided for in Section 10, below. Once created, the Seniority List shall be used for transfers between Swoop and WestJet, and between Encore and Swoop or WestJet.

2.02 Once this LOA becomes effective, any Pilot who is hired at WestJet, Swoop, or Encore shall be assigned a seniority number based on date of hire at the respective airline.

The quote Seniority List unquote is to be used for no other purpose than transfers between Swoop, WestJet, and Encore.

Although paragraph 2.02 seems to give a quote seniority number unquote to Encore pilots, it does not. I do not know why the framers of the PTA used the terminology they did.

I only know that there is one bargaining unit seniority list, the PSL/WPSL and it governs promotions and position awards at WSW/WJA.

This is very controversial and a devastating interpretation of the situation for the last two years at WSW/WJA. People who voluntarily stayed longer at Encore, believing they were grandfathered onto some sort of seniority list have not been. Every pilot who is hired at Swoop or WestJet goes to the BOTL regardless of who the previous employer was.

I would like to show affected pilots a copy of the PSL/WPSL to prove my point, but that will have to wait. Although the PSL is supposed to be available to all bargaining unit pilots on the EFB, for some reason it is not.

I wish no malice against anyone. I merely asked questions and did research. I do not think my interpretation of events is flawed.

The CBA states the Company maintains the PSL. The PTA says the Association (ALPA) maintains the quote Seniority List unquote. If I understand correctly, numerous position bids have been awarded in the past two years, in addition to layoff and recall notices, that were based on faulty information: the transfer list. They should have been based on the PSL, and then we could have verified the correctness of the awards with respect to the correct seniority list.

Have people been forced to commute when they shouldn't have had to? Were pilots sent to Encore when they could have stayed at WJA? Have WSW pilots been incorrectly awarded monthly schedules out of seniority? Have pilots been recalled to work out of seniority?

If someone can rebut my arguments I am all ears.

John Swallow

[ALPApolicy]

I do not know which is a worse indictment of our union.

A) Violating the Constitution and negotiating an agreement with the employer super-seniority to non-bargaining unit members, or

B) Participating in perpetuating (perhaps unknowingly) a belief among two bargaining units (2500 pilots) that a group of pilots were accumulating WSW/WJA seniority when they were not, and allowing to remain unchallenged improper position bid awards and other awards to pilots out of seniority (again, perhaps unknowingly).

Until today, I thought A) was the case. It turns out B) is likely the case.

[ALPApolicy]

And now Sunwing pilots have nothing to fear from the PTA.

[Nashbandicoot]

The one list or "PTA" post vote #2 with cash incentive has always been extremely unfair to pilots recently hired directly at WestJet and extremely rewarding to pilots who flow from Encore. Worse now with the new reserve system and talk of seniority bidding. I hope the Sunwing pilots don't accept the unfair system we've created and a fair solution for Encore pilots can be had without punishing OTS hires. Ex Encore pilots YOS pay carries over but DOH at WestJet for bidding and upgrades. Nobody is punished by pilots parachuting over them while they sit on reserve for years and the Encore pilots are still rewarded for their time at Encore

What makes you so entitled to think you should go ahead of an Encore pilot who gave years to the company workijg 18-20 days and you got hired years later? It’s not a punishment. It was something you agreed to. If you’re so unhappy, AC just opened their applications.

There was no reserve. Encore pilots have seniority for base bidding, vacation and upgrades in a socialized bidding system is what was "agreed to". The reality is if you are hired at WestJet now you are looking at years of reserve while you wait for Encore pilots to flow in above you. That is punishing to anyone hired directly at WestJet. Hope this mess sorts itself out for before the Sunwing pilots arrive. Also, if you are working 20 days a month at Encore that is by your own doing.

[ALPApolicy]

The one list or "PTA" post vote #2 with cash incentive has always been extremely unfair to pilots recently hired directly at WestJet and extremely rewarding to pilots who flow from Encore. Worse now with the new reserve system and talk of seniority bidding. I hope the Sunwing pilots don't accept the unfair system we've created and a fair solution for Encore pilots can be had without punishing OTS hires. Ex Encore pilots YOS pay carries over but DOH at WestJet for bidding and upgrades. Nobody is punished by pilots parachuting over them while they sit on reserve for years and the Encore pilots are still rewarded for their time at Encore

What makes you so entitled to think you should go ahead of an Encore pilot who gave years to the company workijg 18-20 days and you got hired years later? It’s not a punishment. It was something you agreed to. If you’re so unhappy, AC just opened their applications.

There was no reserve. Encore pilots have seniority for base bidding, vacation and upgrades in a socialized bidding system is what was "agreed to". The reality is if you are hired at WestJet now you are looking at years of reserve while you wait for Encore pilots to flow in above you. That is punishing to anyone hired directly at WestJet. Hope this mess sorts itself out for before the Sunwing pilots arrive. Also, if you are working 20 days a month at Encore that is by your own doing.

Encore pilots do not flow above OTS pilots. They join the PSL/WPSL at the bottom by date of hire at Swoop or WestJet like all other pilots.

[JetA Burner]

What makes you so entitled to think you should go ahead of an Encore pilot who gave years to the company workijg 18-20 days and you got hired years later? It’s not a punishment. It was something you agreed to. If you’re so unhappy, AC just opened their applications.

There was no reserve. Encore pilots have seniority for base bidding, vacation and upgrades in a socialized bidding system is what was "agreed to". The reality is if you are hired at WestJet now you are looking at years of reserve while you wait for Encore pilots to flow in above you. That is punishing to anyone hired directly at WestJet. Hope this mess sorts itself out for before the Sunwing pilots arrive. Also, if you are working 20 days a month at Encore that is by your own doing.

Encore pilots do not flow above OTS pilots. They join the PSL/WPSL at the bottom by date of hire at Swoop or WestJet like all other pilots.

It doesn't appear as such on the "current" PTA/SL. Why wouldn't the Encore guys/gals flow above the OTS guys if their DOH is prior to an OTS hire?

According to the LOU, that is the way she goes.

[ALPApolicy]

There was no reserve. Encore pilots have seniority for base bidding, vacation and upgrades in a socialized bidding system is what was "agreed to". The reality is if you are hired at WestJet now you are looking at years of reserve while you wait for Encore pilots to flow in above you. That is punishing to anyone hired directly at WestJet. Hope this mess sorts itself out for before the Sunwing pilots arrive. Also, if you are working 20 days a month at Encore that is by your own doing.

Encore pilots do not flow above OTS pilots. They join the PSL/WPSL at the bottom by date of hire at Swoop or WestJet like all other pilots.

It doesn't appear as such on the "current" PTA/SL. Why wouldn't the Encore guys/gals flow above the OTS guys if their DOH is prior to an OTS hire?

According to the LOU, that is the way she goes.

It is confusing, and I wonder if it is confusing on purpose?

First principles: the Pilot Seniority List is controlled and maintained by the Company. Although it is supposed to be updated 4 times a year and available on the Company iPad, it is not and has not been seen since the PTA vote passed on December 12, 2019.

But the PSL was mentioned in the recall LOU of April 2, 2021.

[ALPApolicy]

The list created by the PTA is called "Seniority List" and available on the iPad and used by the Company to award positions/recalls/layoffs etc, but it shouldn't be. Seniority is only based on the PSL, which we haven't seen in two years.

The Association maintains the "Seniority List", but this list is stated in the PTA as,being used for transfers between companies. Period.

[ALPApolicy]

When a new hire OTS pilot is hired at Swoop or WestJet, he goes to the bottom of two lists: the PSL, and the "Seniority List".

When an Encore pilot flows to WestJet or Swoop, he goes to the bottom of the PSL, but doesn't move positions on the PTA generated "Seniority List" because that is based on your first DOH at a WJ group company.

[JetA Burner]

The list created by the PTA is called "Seniority List" and available on the iPad and used by the Company to award positions/recalls/layoffs etc, but it shouldn't be. Seniority is only based on the PSL, which we haven't seen in two years.

The Association maintains the "Seniority List", but this list is stated in the PTA as,being used for transfers between companies. Period.

Our "Seniority List" at SWG is cross checked by the pilot group semi annually and can be grieved if it appears to be out of order.

[ALPApolicy]

Hopefully we pilots in the WSW/WJA bargaining unit will have access to the PSL by next week. I hope.

People's lives have been messed with. I don't yet know if no one realized this and it was an honest mistake or it was confusing and misleading on purpose. A lot of people thought they had higher seniority than they actually did. And a lot of pilots were denied things they could have held.

Hard to say what the scale of the problem is because we can't tell who flowed to WSW/WJA and who was OTS,because we only have the PTA generated "Seniority List".

[ALPApolicy]

The list created by the PTA is called "Seniority List" and available on the iPad and used by the Company to award positions/recalls/layoffs etc, but it shouldn't be. Seniority is only based on the PSL, which we haven't seen in two years.

The Association maintains the "Seniority List", but this list is stated in the PTA as,being used for transfers between companies. Period.

Our "Seniority List" at SWG is cross checked by the pilot group semi annually and can be grieved if it appears to be out of order.

Similar to us. I can't tell you why we don't have access to ours.

Can we join Unifor?

[JetA Burner]

Similar to us. I can't tell you why we don't have access to ours.

Can we join Unifor?

After dealing with that goof/dirty POS Snow, trust me.....you don't want dirty UNIFOR!

At the end of the day, a List is ideal and not much to ask for.

[ALPApolicy]

Perhaps I am being too hard on ALPA. They tell us to KNOW THE CONTRACT...maybe the confusion of the wording was just accidental and then people assumed what the words said.

[JetA Burner]

Perhaps I am being too hard on ALPA. They tell us to KNOW THE CONTRACT...maybe the confusion of the wording was just accidental and then people assumed what the words said.

From what you are quoting, Contracts are contracts. Literature is literature. Words are words. Technicalities are technicalities. and to go full circle, Contracts are Contracts. How can you argue the language? It had intent at one point in time for a reason?

[ALPApolicy]

From what you are quoting, Contracts are contracts. Literature is literature. Words are words. Technicalities are technicalities. and to go full circle, Contracts are Contracts. How can you argue the language? It had intent at one point in time for a reason?

This is the first part of the PTA. It created confusion by making it seem that it was THE seniority list because it was called "Seniority List". But look at what it was to be used for.

Screenshot_20220316-220338_Office.jpg (222.35 KiB) Viewed 1566 times

[ALPApolicy]

The phrase "seniority number" above conflicts with the same phrase in the CBA. The PTA seems to be updating the phrase but it is really creating a parallel (but differently ordered) seniority list with its own seniority number scheme.
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Screenshot_20220316-220812_Office.jpg (184.46 KiB) Viewed 1557 times

[JetA Burner]

From what you are quoting, Contracts are contracts. Literature is literature. Words are words. Technicalities are technicalities. and to go full circle, Contracts are Contracts. How can you argue the language? It had intent at one point in time for a reason?

This is the first part of the PTA. It created confusion by making it seem that it was THE seniority list because it was called "Seniority List". But look at what it was to be used for.

Screenshot_20220316-220338_Office.jpg

Pretty clear you have to be hired first. That's a plus for the merger mess and is really cut and dry,

It would be nice to see this "list".

For us at SWG, all of our LOU's have expiration dates or will expire with the CBA. They are not a part of the collective. They must be renewed.

[JetA Burner]

At the end of the day, it is nice to see fair level headed representation on both ends. It is also nice(?) to see that both lists are as dirty as Bill Clinton disregarding all sexual relations with Monica.