AC Pilots leaving to the US?

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FL320
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by FL320 »

a220hereicome wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:20 pm
altiplano wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:18 pm
a220hereicome wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:04 pm I’m guessing
You are... if a large connected company needs, they get it accommodated.
And that is simply not the case with airlines in the US. Same rumours in the 90s during the big hiring boom. And nothing happened.

Medical professions, yes.

There are no floodgates that have been opened, which is why I don’t expect any ‘snowball’ effect. The percentage of pilots at AC who have dual citizenship, or some other family connection to the US, is probably less than 1%.
For your information I am in the process with a lawyer; for the new NIW that is applicable to pilots. At the moment it takes up to 18 months to complete the entire process (including a medical exam) then you get the green card. No need a job offer but a FAA ATP and extensive flying experience on jets. My lawyer got about 3000 applications/requests from Canadian pilots but they have selected about 220 pilots with the appropriate experience to pursue the application.
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altiplano
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by altiplano »

a220hereicome wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:05 am
YC87DRVR wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:35 am Know of a Canadian pilot who just completed the process and is now in training with a US major. Had zero ties to the US before hand. Took about 11 months and 25,000$ USD for the immigration lawyer to get the process done.
Worth the investment given the large disparity in salaries. That 25k will be made up in no time.
You know a guy, who knows a guy, who knows of a guy...

If you don't have a family connection, or a medical profession exemption, the EB-2 or EB-3 waiver is difficult to attain. It normally requires a certification from the US Department of Labor that the position can't be filled by a US citizen. There may be a case to be made at the connector airlines, but not at the majors.

If this was for real, then it wouldn't be a rumour on the ACPA forum. Delta, United, etc would be holding seminars in Toronto encouraging pilots to apply. Like the Chinese have done in the past. You could always pick up the phone and call the Delta Flight Operations recruiting coordinator to find out if they're actively recruiting Canadian pilots, instead of getting your information on the pilot forum.

Finally, don't forget that US pilots (just like Canadian ones) have a strong protectionist streak. There would be a very loud outcry from ALPA if they started hiring foreigners (and yes, Canadians are foreigners) to fill the cockpits at the majors. ALPA has already expressed this opinion in the past:

"The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Administrative Appeals Office has repeatedly found that airline pilot positions aren’t a specialty occupation, and ALPA continues to raise concerns about the misuse of this visa program."

That's from the ALPA website, albeit talking about one of their connector airlines.

I'll believe it when I see it.
Head in the sand with your management buddies.
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co-joe
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by co-joe »

I believe just in the past week or so, the process to achieve a US work permit for Canadian pilots has slightly improved. It's still going to be a lot of work, but the door is one millimetre (3/64") more open now. Everyone I know with a US license has their ears perked up and is starting to seriously consider it, or is looking at paths to get the ball rolling.
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a220hereicome
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by a220hereicome »

altiplano wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:29 pm
Head in the sand with your management buddies.
Sure thing. Let me know how that application goes with that firm in Hong Kong.

Can I borrow $5000 bucks?
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by altiplano »

a220hereicome wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:00 pm
altiplano wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:29 pm
Head in the sand with your management buddies.
Can I borrow $5000 bucks?
Shows what a sad state we're in when you can't cover $5K on your own.
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a220hereicome
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by a220hereicome »

altiplano wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:38 pm
a220hereicome wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:00 pm
altiplano wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:29 pm
Head in the sand with your management buddies.
Can I borrow $5000 bucks?
Shows what a sad state we're in when you can't cover $5K on your own.
Come on, now.

I figured if you’re willing to part so easily with $5K to an unseen law firm in Hong Kong, or a Nigerian prince…
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altiplano
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by altiplano »

a220hereicome wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:55 pm
altiplano wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:38 pm
a220hereicome wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:00 pm

Can I borrow $5000 bucks?
Shows what a sad state we're in when you can't cover $5K on your own.
Come on, now.

I figured if you’re willing to part so easily with $5K to an unseen law firm in Hong Kong, or a Nigerian prince…
Head in the sand...

People are going to go... tell your management pals to get their chequebook ready.
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a220hereicome
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by a220hereicome »

altiplano wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:01 pm
a220hereicome wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:55 pm
altiplano wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:38 pm

Shows what a sad state we're in when you can't cover $5K on your own.
Come on, now.

I figured if you’re willing to part so easily with $5K to an unseen law firm in Hong Kong, or a Nigerian prince…
Head in the sand...

People are going to go... tell your management pals to get their chequebook ready.
:lol: Too funny.

How about we park this, and you report back in a year and tell us about how the floodgates opened and the mass exodus that followed. Or not.

As far as head in the sand..."chequebook?" This exodus you foresee, you think this is going to drive up pilot wages at AC? Wow.
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Last edited by a220hereicome on Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by Ash Ketchum »

FL320 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:55 pm
a220hereicome wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:20 pm
altiplano wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:18 pm

You are... if a large connected company needs, they get it accommodated.
And that is simply not the case with airlines in the US. Same rumours in the 90s during the big hiring boom. And nothing happened.

Medical professions, yes.

There are no floodgates that have been opened, which is why I don’t expect any ‘snowball’ effect. The percentage of pilots at AC who have dual citizenship, or some other family connection to the US, is probably less than 1%.
For your information I am in the process with a lawyer; for the new NIW that is applicable to pilots. At the moment it takes up to 18 months to complete the entire process (including a medical exam) then you get the green card. No need a job offer but a FAA ATP and extensive flying experience on jets. My lawyer got about 3000 applications/requests from Canadian pilots but they have selected about 220 pilots with the appropriate experience to pursue the application.
Good to know. I was told I don't have enough aviation experience for the NIW. What type of experience do you have?
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FL320
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by FL320 »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:21 am
FL320 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:55 pm
a220hereicome wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:20 pm

And that is simply not the case with airlines in the US. Same rumours in the 90s during the big hiring boom. And nothing happened.

Medical professions, yes.

There are no floodgates that have been opened, which is why I don’t expect any ‘snowball’ effect. The percentage of pilots at AC who have dual citizenship, or some other family connection to the US, is probably less than 1%.
For your information I am in the process with a lawyer; for the new NIW that is applicable to pilots. At the moment it takes up to 18 months to complete the entire process (including a medical exam) then you get the green card. No need a job offer but a FAA ATP and extensive flying experience on jets. My lawyer got about 3000 applications/requests from Canadian pilots but they have selected about 220 pilots with the appropriate experience to pursue the application.
Good to know. I was told I don't have enough aviation experience for the NIW. What type of experience do you have?
ATP (FAA,TC,EASA) with type ratings and PIC hours on B737NG/A330/A321. The pre-covid salary is also taken in consideration for the NIW: the lawyer said it’s limit ok :oops:
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by hithere »

Cavalier44 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:22 pm
hithere wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:38 am Any US airline is able to offer an Australian an EB-3 visa to work in the US. I have no idea what special skills the Aussies have over Canadians that entitle them to this coveted Visa but that's the reality right now.
The Australia-United States Free Trade Agreement (AUSFTA) contains a clause that allows US airlines to offer EB-3 visas to Australians. The Canada-United States-Mexico Agreement (CUSMA) which replaced NAFTA in 2020 does not contain any such clause to allow Canadians to be sponsored by US airlines for an EB-3 visa. Obviously, this has nothing to do with the competency of Australian pilots vis-à-vis Canadian pilots, rather it is a product of bilateral agreements between those two nations.

The Canadian government has no impetus to push for such a clause, in part because airline lobby groups like the Air Transport Association of Canada (ATAC) are spending millions of dollars to influence our elected officials and regulatory bodies. They are keenly aware that opening up the border and allowing Canadian pilots to seek employment in the United States would decimate the Canadian aviation industry overnight by depriving them of their pool of cheap labour.
Thanks for that explanation. Makes sense now, although it begs the question, does Australian airline industry have such an excess of airline pilots that they are ok with losing them to the US?
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by Ash Ketchum »

FL320 wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:16 am
Ash Ketchum wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:21 am
FL320 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:55 pm

For your information I am in the process with a lawyer; for the new NIW that is applicable to pilots. At the moment it takes up to 18 months to complete the entire process (including a medical exam) then you get the green card. No need a job offer but a FAA ATP and extensive flying experience on jets. My lawyer got about 3000 applications/requests from Canadian pilots but they have selected about 220 pilots with the appropriate experience to pursue the application.
Good to know. I was told I don't have enough aviation experience for the NIW. What type of experience do you have?
ATP (FAA,TC,EASA) with type ratings and PIC hours on B737NG/A330/A321. The pre-covid salary is also taken in consideration for the NIW: the lawyer said it’s limit ok :oops:
Wow very impressive. I wish you the best of luck with your application. I was trying to get the EB-2 NIW process going as a regional captain but was told I needed more experience (and higher pay). My plan was to try and get into a US regional as an FO and hopefully flow through to a major US airline in a few years time.
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by MontrealCanucks »

a220hereicome wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:08 pm
altiplano wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:01 pm
a220hereicome wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:55 pm

Come on, now.

I figured if you’re willing to part so easily with $5K to an unseen law firm in Hong Kong, or a Nigerian prince…
Head in the sand...

People are going to go... tell your management pals to get their chequebook ready.
:lol: Too funny.

How about we park this, and you report back in a year and tell us about how the floodgates opened and the mass exodus that followed. Or not.

As far as head in the sand..."chequebook?" This exodus you foresee, you think this is going to drive up pilot wages at AC? Wow.
What is going to drive up wages is removing concessionary trained acpa reps from the association.

This endless, negative, defeated rhetoric shouldn't be anywhere near a leadership table of a elementary school student council let alone a professional association
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

MontrealCanucks wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:45 pm
a220hereicome wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:08 pm
altiplano wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:01 pm

Head in the sand...

People are going to go... tell your management pals to get their chequebook ready.
:lol: Too funny.

How about we park this, and you report back in a year and tell us about how the floodgates opened and the mass exodus that followed. Or not.

As far as head in the sand..."chequebook?" This exodus you foresee, you think this is going to drive up pilot wages at AC? Wow.
What is going to drive up wages is removing concessionary trained acpa reps from the association.

This endless, negative, defeated rhetoric shouldn't be anywhere near a leadership table of a elementary school student council let alone a professional association
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a220hereicome
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by a220hereicome »

MontrealCanucks wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:45 pm
What is going to drive up wages is removing concessionary trained acpa reps from the association.

This endless, negative, defeated rhetoric shouldn't be anywhere near a leadership table of a elementary school student council let alone a professional association
You're not picking up what I'm laying down.

If you want to try and go work in the US, best of luck to you. I'm saying that most who shell out the $5000, $10,000 or $20,000 US for this process will never see that money again. The lawyers will gladly take your money, but their success rate so far is essentially zero. Ask them that very pointed question! And there has been no legislation passed in the US to change that success rate. Even the letter from that Hong Kong firm posted elsewhere on this forum speaks only of rumours. And you're going to hand over 5 large to a HK law firm based on that?

If a handful of AC pilots do quit and go to the US (those with family connections), this will have no effect on Air Canada's ability to crew the airline. Which will have no effect on wages. "Tell management to get out their chequebook, or I'm gonna marry me an American bride and leave!" Give me a break. That's not how we're going to achieve higher wages.

That's not concessionary thinking, that's a reality check for those of you who think that the floodgates to the US are about to open because they are desperate for Canadian pilots south of the border. :roll:

I always find it sad when I hear about people in India or Bangladesh being swindled out of their money by bogus immigration schemes to Canada. I think, how could they believe such a story?
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aeronauticaldisaster
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by aeronauticaldisaster »

a220hereicome wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:37 am
MontrealCanucks wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:45 pm
What is going to drive up wages is removing concessionary trained acpa reps from the association.

This endless, negative, defeated rhetoric shouldn't be anywhere near a leadership table of a elementary school student council let alone a professional association
You're not picking up what I'm laying down.

If you want to try and go work in the US, best of luck to you. I'm saying that most who shell out the $5000, $10,000 or $20,000 US for this process will never see that money again. The lawyers will gladly take your money, but their success rate so far is essentially zero. Ask them that very pointed question! And there has been no legislation passed in the US to change that success rate. Even the letter from that Hong Kong firm posted elsewhere on this forum speaks only of rumours. And you're going to hand over 5 large to a HK law firm based on that?

If a handful of AC pilots do quit and go to the US (those with family connections), this will have no effect on Air Canada's ability to crew the airline. Which will have no effect on wages. "Tell management to get out their chequebook, or I'm gonna marry me an American bride and leave!" Give me a break. That's not how we're going to achieve higher wages.

That's not concessionary thinking, that's a reality check for those of you who think that the floodgates to the US are about to open because they are desperate for Canadian pilots south of the border. :roll:

I always find it sad when I hear about people in India or Bangladesh being swindled out of their money by bogus immigration schemes to Canada. I think, how could they believe such a story?
You have done a good job picking up what the company is laying down and crapping it all over the pilot group.

Case law is always changing. And in life, there are no guarantees, but you got to value yourself and your profession unlike the previous acpa leadership who valued their displacements and daily extra credits.

6 years ago, thanks to the Dhanasar Case, nearly all pilots with 3,000 hrs were granted greencards.


Unfortunately this changed a couple years later and there was a period where only highly experience pilots were getting the waiver

But from 2020, there was a substantial change in the scenario: there was a Bill in October 2020 entered in Congress "for the purpose of supporting and promoting civil and military aviation and aerospace in order to address the demands and challenges associated with ensuring a safe and vibrant national aviation system.", highlighting the national interest in resolving the upcoming shortage

This shortage is very real and Canada is known internationally for having the best pilots in the world from our training and experience.

Pull up your pants and have some respect for yourself and for others. Stop with your managerial concessionary outlook and look at your peers and their training, education and capabilities.

Chin up everyone, Canadian aviators deserve better and there will only be one trajectory moving forward - upwards
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by hithere »

“6 years ago, thanks to the Dhanasar Case, nearly all pilots with 3,000 hrs were granted greencards.”

This is the first I heard of this and a search of avcanada of “Dhanasar” brings up not a single post. Which pilots were granted green cards?
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throwawaycorporate
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by throwawaycorporate »

People in this thread have no idea what they're talking about.

E-3 (not EB-3) visa is for Australians through a bi-lateral agreement. It's also not a green card.

EB2/EB3 - These are employment based green cards, that require specific employer sponsorship, and a prevailing wage determination. 12 months + wait time and "airline pilot" does not qualify.

EB2 NIW (national interest waiver) - This is what all these rumours are based on. It's ~20K USD, and is a shot in the dark. You are essentially self sponsoring yourself stating that you are "of national interest" to the USA. There is no standardized approval, they are treated on a case by case basis, and are subject to whoever is looking at your file that day. Are you a Bombardier test pilot? That'll probably get approved. Do you have a masters degree and develop sim training programs? That's a strong contender. If you have no education, have only worked on the line and haven't even converted to an. FAA ATP, this is a huge gamble.

Many lawyers will take the $$$, but there will be no promise of approval.

Delta/United/AA or whoever have absolutely no influence in the EB2(NIW) process. The very most that I'd believe is that a Canadian pilot has contacted a US recruiter that has said "If you convert to FAA ATP and get final approval on your green card, reach back out to me as you'd be a really competitive candidate"

Someone else mentioned H1B visas. These have been sparingly done in the past by SkyWest and Piedmont, no majors. You can actually see all H1B approvals here: https://www.myvisajobs.com/Airline-Pilo ... 2018OC.htm
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by radio »

There's a need for pilots in US, regionals pilot that is. Majors are filled with applications from competitive US pilots.

Most visa that are offered will be sponsored are referred as non-immigrant visa. So your visa is tied to your employer.

Be aware that regionals are offering extensive money right now for pilots, so a regionals job in the US might even be better than a major job in Canada, until the music stops... Be also aware that the experience as Captain or FO in Canada is not acceptable experience to act as PIC for a part 121 (705 in US) . Most would have to acquire the 1000 hrs as SIC before eligible for an upgrade.
A ATPL Canada to FAA ATP transition also requires a ATP-CTP course. It's not impossible to make it happen, especially with a good lawyer, but people should reduce their hopes to work for a Major airlines like Delta, UA, AA. There's a lot of people to hire In the USA before foreigner, especially UA starting their own flight school and hiring CFI directly.

On the other hand, regionals airlines are hurting and the model will change drastically in the coming years.
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Re: AC Pilots leaving to the US?

Post by ‘Bob’ »

So… does this mean Air Canada is hiring?
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