When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Covid related topics that are connected to travel or the aviation industry.
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Bede
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When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by Bede »

Let me guess, the numbers are rigged.
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YC87DRVR
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by YC87DRVR »

Bede wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:22 am Let me guess, the numbers are rigged.
*Not getting the pro or anti-vax debate cause I really don’t care what anyone chooses to do.

But your argument is flawed. If your debating the vaccine’s potential for side effects, you should compare between vax’d and not vax’d and the amount of side effects within the vax’d. Saying something isn’t bad because it’s compared to a virus doesn’t make sense. It would be like saying smoking isn’t dangerous cause all forms of cancer in general kills significantly more people.
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pelmet
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by pelmet »

Just imagine if they were to discover that the covid vaccine was a solution to erectile dysfunction. Half the anti-vaxxers on this forum would be tripping over themselves to get multiple, simultaneous shots.


:smt040 :smt031 :lovebig: :smt031 :happy: :smt031
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Last edited by pelmet on Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:46 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Bede
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by Bede »

YC87DRVR wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:29 am
Bede wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:22 am Let me guess, the numbers are rigged.
*Not getting the pro or anti-vax debate cause I really don’t care what anyone chooses to do.

But your argument is flawed. If your debating the vaccine’s potential for side effects, you should compare between vax’d and not vax’d and the amount of side effects within the vax’d. Saying something isn’t bad because it’s compared to a virus doesn’t make sense. It would be like saying smoking isn’t dangerous cause all forms of cancer in general kills significantly more people.
You are correct. I can show that in a graph too. This is just to address the fear that the vaccine is dangerous, when in fact, Covid is far more dangerous. Kind of like showing a graph showing "people killed in car accidents" vs "people killed by terrorists".
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Inverted2
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by Inverted2 »

https://www.cp24.com/news/covid-related ... -1.5827606

“Officials say 1,217 new COVID-19 cases were confirmed by provincial labs over the past 24 hours but that is not an accurate reflection of the true burden of infection in Ontario due to significant restrictions on testing.

Of those cases confirmed today, 175 involve people who are not fully vaccinated, 295 involve those who have at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, 632 involve people who have received two doses plus a booster shot, and 115 involve people with an unknown vaccination status.”

We should also look at how effective these vaccines are. From my quick math above, triple vaccinated make up 52% of the new cases while 47% of Ontario has had the boosters. 90% of the cases involve those who had 1-3 shots so it basically means they do nothing. I know unvaccinated folks who got the Omni and they were no sicker than the vaccinated. I’m just relieved they aren’t forcing the boosters on us. I got my 2 shots to keep my job but I would have preferred not to but hopefully those who didn’t will get their jobs back soon and we can all move on.
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by pelmet »

What a bunch of chicken littles these anti-vaxers are.

This guy got 87 shots, sometimes 3 in a day…….

https://www.newsweek.com/man-gets-87-co ... 4472?amp=1
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WellThatAgedWell
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by WellThatAgedWell »

All the pro vaccine arguments have fallen apart over the past year. The vaccines don’t prevent spread, they don’t prevent infection, they don’t prevent mutations and variants, they don’t keep hospital capacity manageable, they don’t stop severe illness and death, the vax won’t harm you… so now the pro vax have resorted to the final argument… “the vax doesn’t kill you as bad as Covid!”

What a fucking dumb ass thread this is.

Hoax of the century. You want your vax have at it… take all the jabs you want. The fact people lost their jobs over this is ludicrous.
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Bede
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by Bede »

WellThatAgedWell wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:18 am All the pro vaccine arguments have fallen apart over the past year. The vaccines don’t prevent spread, they don’t prevent infection, they don’t prevent mutations and variants, they don’t keep hospital capacity manageable, they don’t stop severe illness and death, the vax won’t harm you… so now the pro vax have resorted to the final argument… “the vax doesn’t kill you as bad as Covid!”
Umm, actually no. The vaccines were very effective at stopping the spread of the alpha & delta- omicron no. They were very effective at reducing death and hospitalization in all variants. The Case Fatality Rate dropped from 3% pre-vaccine to 0.5% by the time most Canadians are vaccinated. I'd call that a success.

The evolution of this virus is predictable. Variants evolve to become more infections and less lethal.
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WellThatAgedWell
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by WellThatAgedWell »

Bede wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:12 am Umm, actually no. The vaccines were very effective at stopping the spread of the alpha & delta- omicron no. They were very effective at reducing death and hospitalization in all variants. The Case Fatality Rate dropped from 3% pre-vaccine to 0.5% by the time most Canadians are vaccinated. I'd call that a success.

The evolution of this virus is predictable. Variants evolve to become more infections and less lethal.

Umm, no actually Alpha and delta disappeared by the natural evolution of the disease. With or without the vaccines the initial variants would have disappeared. The initial covid variant was gone before any vaccines were available. How did that magic happen? Omicron took over, now the omicron sub variant has taken over. This is nothing to do with vaccine efficacy and would have happened anyways.

Now each time a new variant comes out they say take another jab because 3 jabs are good for omicron, and 4 jabs are good for omicron sub variant, and let me guess when the 5th dominant variant comes out a 5th jab will be 80 percent effective at that! Its funny you say the vaccines are not effective for omicron because the drug companies say different! Also people are still lining up for the vaccines for 3rd and 4th jabs to prevent omicron, when you say its not effective... hmm.

If you only have 2 shots today, are you really even vaccinated? What a shit vax.

Anyways Bede, your initial post was about how safe the vaccine is, now you are saying its not effective against the current strains. So are you all for Safe, non-effective vaccines? What kind of argument are you forming here? I could just inject myself with saline and have myself some safe and non-effective vaccine. Of all those who either died of covid, or from the vaccine, 1.54% Died from the vaccine. Is this an acceptable ratio? That's pretty sad if you ask me.
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by Aviatard »

WellThatAgedWell wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:18 am
What a fucking dumb ass thread this is.

Hoax of the century. You want your vax have at it… take all the jabs you want. The fact people lost their jobs over this is ludicrous.

Yet you’ve posted extensively in it. So have you made it more dumbassly or less? Hint: the answer is more.
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Schooner69A
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by Schooner69A »

I don't know why the anti-vaxxer crowd keeps presenting dubious information that retains the unmistakable odour of water closet...
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by Inverted2 »

Now the “experts” - aka doctors bought and paid for by Pfizer and Moderna are in a panic to get people to get 3rd and 4th shots with a vaccine that is basically ineffective against the virus now. But why?

Follow the $$$$.

It’s the biggest hoax of the century.
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by pecessix »

Schooner69A wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:57 am I don't know why the anti-vaxxer crowd keeps presenting dubious information that retains the unmistakable odour of water closet...

I don't know why the pro-vaxxer crowd keeps presenting dubious information that retains the unmistakable odour of water closet...
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by goingmissed »

WellThatAgedWell wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:18 am All the pro vaccine arguments have fallen apart over the past year. The vaccines don’t prevent spread, they don’t prevent infection, they don’t prevent mutations and variants, they don’t keep hospital capacity manageable, they don’t stop severe illness and death, the vax won’t harm you… so now the pro vax have resorted to the final argument… “the vax doesn’t kill you as bad as Covid!”

What a fucking dumb ass thread this is.

Hoax of the century. You want your vax have at it… take all the jabs you want. The fact people lost their jobs over this is ludicrous.

1E2241A8-0E53-4B18-A87C-A299EA681467.jpeg
That is like saying
Seatbelts don't prevent accidents and don't stop you from getting injured.
Just because your unvaxxed buddy had a mild case does not mean that all cases are mild. According to statistics, you are more likely to think that Putin is justified in his war of aggression because you are an antivaxxer, but unlike yourself, I realize that it is correlation, not causation.
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by ReserveTank »

Bede wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:22 am Let me guess, the numbers are rigged.
Fringe minority. Less than 5% of the population.
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trey kule
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by trey kule »

Well, on a personal level, after my second jab, I had a reaction. It was not pleasant.

And then I got Covid. Not really much worse than the vaccine reaction.

Stats and charts are allfine, but when you get a reaction it becomes very personal, and you do question why.

As an aside, I heard a story of a guy who was triple vaxed , got Covid, and died.
Government said if he hadnt been triple vaxed it would have been worse.

Ithink the vaccines are not proven, and in the future it will be to late to regret our willingness to listen to government.
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by Squaretail »

trey kule wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 9:22 pm

As an aside, I heard a story of a guy who was triple vaxed , got Covid, and died.
Government said if he hadnt been triple vaxed it would have been worse.
As of yet though, its just a story. I don't know of anyone that has happened to. I do know people who a) were un-vaccinated who caught covid and died, b) were un-vacinated who caught covid and lived with minor issues no more than the common flu, c) were not vaccinated and caught covid, and were hospitalized and recovered, d) were vaccinated and still caught covid with issues no greater than the common flu.

Now I assume its within the realm of possibility to have been vaccinated and still die from a disease. That has always been the case. Maybe a person has the bad roll of the genetic dice and carries a lesser ability to deal with a particular infection or their immune system doesn't take up the vaccination as strongly as others. But not only do I not know of anyone who this has happened to, but I don't know of anyone who has direct knowledge of someone this has happened to. The best that can be done is "friend of a friend of a friend". I can connect myself to Kevin Bacon with more certainty than I can to someone who has died of covid with triple vaccinations. You are more likely to be related to Dark Helmet than to have first hand knowledge of someone being triple vaxxed and dying of covid.
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trey kule
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by trey kule »

Squaretail.

Forgive me for assuming that people can understand subtleties

The point of the triple vax story is that the claim that the vaccines result in a less severe infection is something that is impossible to make. The logic was the message. Think , for a minute, how that could possibly be proven. Particularly if the current covid strains already result in a less severe infection.

Impossible to prove. But that has not stopped the political health experts from making the claim to continue having more vaccinations.

I cannot believe the difference in the fear factor between those in BC and those in Alberta.
Despite the mask mandates in BC pretty much removed, there are still a fair chunk ofthe people in Vancouver wearing them….and alone in their cars.
Fear is a terrible thing, but a great motivator. And a government without ethical standards could just exploit that.

As they say. The proof is in the pudding.
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Squaretail
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by Squaretail »

My point, trey, is that the story, is just that, a story. No one actually knows anyone this has happened to, or the mysterious government agency or official who made the claim related to it.

I mean when talking to everyone I know before they got jabbed or the ones who arent were convinced they were going to be the one in that story, but it turns out that none of those who did get jabbed had anything, as awful as some side effects were, that was unexpected.

And fwiw, you are terrible at subtlety. Have been for as long as you have been posting here. Just say what you mean. Unless you purposefully wish to be confusing.
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Schooner69A
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Re: When people say the vaccine is dangerous...

Post by Schooner69A »

There are no doubt people who eschewed vaccination, contracted Covid 19, and lived.
There are no doubt people who were vaccinated, contracted Covid 19, and died.
However, when the last bell is rung and statistics are tallied, it will be found that a significantly higher percentage of unprotected people died from the virus than those who were vaccinated.

And you can take that to the bank...
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