The end of Rouge?

[rudder]

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpress. ... ary-rouge/

Looks like AC is evaluating the raison d’être for Rouge. Looks fairly clear considering latest fleet order that a return to a fleet of 50-60 Rouge aircraft is not going to happen.

What should AC do? Scrap the separate Rouge AOC. Keep some single class A319/320/321 for city pairs (domestic/US/International) where J class product is not required.

Fly them using the mainline NB pilots. Back end using mainline FA’s. Fix them using mainline AME’s.

Rouge should be just a paint job and a unique seating configuration. Just like Jetz. Nothing more.

[TheStig]

That's the direction things are moving. Rouge pilots are currently working under the mainline contract and will do so until the end of the contract in 2024. The rumour is that the current barrier to combining the AOC's are the different training programs. ML uses AQP and rouge uses the traditional PPC, rouge is just about to shift to AQP.

The FA's have separate seniority lists (but maintain DOH when they flow) and incredibly different WACON, the airline will be looking to maintain the status quo.


The competitive landscape has and will continue to change tremendously (Swoop, Flair, E-Jets at PD, Lynx) over the next few years and I believe it when the Execs say that the rouge product is going to play a role in AC's future.

[RegionalPilot]

I believe having a different branding for a cabin without J class is important on a pure marketing perspective.

Whether if it’s under a different AOC or not, I couldn’t care less. But I see the value of Rouge branded planes around the network.

[Col. Panic]

All the Rogue Airbuses now have 2 class cabins. It is a different class than mainline, but the premium rouge seats are similar to mainline narrow body J class, other than the lack of IFE.

There are no rouge AMEs… the same maintenance staff work on all aircraft.

[Latitude]

They should keep Rouge to compete against Swoop and Flair on domestic, transborder and south routes. They cant compete cost wise only with mainline product.

[tbaylx]

They should keep Rouge to compete against Swoop and Flair on domestic, transborder and south routes. They cant compete cost wise only with mainline product.

Rouge isn't even close to being able to compete with Flair/Lynx on costs regardless of which AOC they are under at Air Canada.

[altiplano]

Next, the corporation will want something from us to merge the L319 and ML320 lists.

But the thing is -
THE CORPORATION WANTS TO MERGE THE LISTS.

LCC/ML is same wawcon now, seperate lists is a cost, separate AOCs, seperate schedules, separate management team, all cost money, lost economy of scale.

The trick for ACPA and AC Pilots here is to do nothing other than agree to the permanent removal of LOU74 and a merging of 319/320 APOS lists.

And then never again, never again divided within our own ranks.

Time to push in the same direction -
Calendar day guarantee,
formula pay starts year 2,
raises across the board plus 5% extra for narrow bodies,
FAA augment rules for overseas flights.

[rudder]

The trick for ACPA and AC Pilots here is to do nothing other than agree to the permanent removal of LOU74 and a merging of 319/320 APOS lists.

And then never again, never again divided within our own ranks.

Time to push in the same direction -
Calendar day guarantee,
formula pay starts year 2,
raises across the board plus 5% extra for narrow bodies,
FAA augment rules for overseas flights.

ACPA should tape this up on the first wall that they can see walking in to the office so they are reminded every day…….

[altiplano]

The trick for ACPA and AC Pilots here is to do nothing other than agree to the permanent removal of LOU74 and a merging of 319/320 APOS lists.

And then never again, never again divided within our own ranks.

Time to push in the same direction -
Calendar day guarantee,
formula pay starts year 2,
raises across the board plus 5% extra for narrow bodies,
FAA augment rules for overseas flights.

ACPA should tape this up on the first wall that they can see walking in to the office so they are reminded every day…….

They would never see it if you put it up anywhere near the ACPA office!

The "Leadership" haven't been anywhere near there in 2 years. Hell, the YVR LCC Chair hasn't even left Vancouver Island except for a couple events and to do some overtime.

Maybe put it up behind the bar on the VIP level at the Leafs game, they all like getting taken up to the box... or take out an ad on Facebook, or whatever it's called now, the YUL LCC Chair might see it on there...

But you're right, tattoo it on their foreheads, put it on the envelope of their full displacement pay cheques, glue it on top of their membership paid laptops, make it their sign in for zoom or whatever. This "Union" needs to get a mindset change pronto.

[flyingfool]

Do ACPA pilots pay for the YVR base chair's commutes?

[Montroyal]

Do ACPA pilots pay for the YVR base chair's commutes?

Yes. And I presume his hotels.

No wonder he doesn't care about not having a commuter policy.

[dumpsterfire]

Geezus

Is there anything the old guys do at ACPA for the benefit of the membership?

What a dumpsterfire

[aeronauticaldisaster]

Pretty sure the only thing important is his full displacement and fighting against any efforts to improve the joint.

Alpa would probably expose him for the useless rep he is

[Localizer]

Ditch ACPA, join ALPA and pattern bargain like they do in the US, works for them, why wouldn’t it work here? Then we can all be on the same page and pilots aren’t making $117K as Skipper of a 737. Let’s truly get everyone working together for once …

[eurotrash]

Couldn't agree more!

Just need to ditch some of the dust that is clinging to the furniture. Nothing a little pine sol can't fix.

[newlygrounded]

Ditch ACPA, join ALPA and pattern bargain like they do in the US, works for them, why wouldn’t it work here? Then we can all be on the same page and pilots aren’t making $117K as Skipper of a 737. Let’s truly get everyone working together for once …

Do you honestly think they'd ditch acpa? Every concession has came at the cost of the junior guys, so any old timers wouldn't care, the dues are "cheaper" as well so the people who don't care have nothing to gain.

[Localizer]

Ditch ACPA, join ALPA and pattern bargain like they do in the US, works for them, why wouldn’t it work here? Then we can all be on the same page and pilots aren’t making $117K as Skipper of a 737. Let’s truly get everyone working together for once …

Do you honestly think they'd ditch acpa? Every concession has came at the cost of the junior guys, so any old timers wouldn't care, the dues are "cheaper" as well so the people who don't care have nothing to gain.

I think the young are starting to out-number the old at AC. The demographics are a changin’ …

[altiplano]

It's not just the "young guys" that want to ditch ACPA, and indeed there are a share of "young guys" that want to keep ACPA.

That said I believe the PNR for ACPA has past. We overhauled it at great expense in a half assed response to the governance review and actually made it worse. Time to follow the other recommendation in the review and take it out back and kill it and join an association that already has its governance in order.

Stop spinning tires, let's hear from ALPA, let's get a vote on.

[Winnikegger]

Be careful playing into the game of divisions.

"Old vs young"

"DB pension vs CWIPP"

Etc

This all plays into the strategy of the company. They love divisions.

It's disheartening to see the old guard of the YVR & YUL chairs with support of their vices prop up this philosophy of pro division & anti change

Although ultimately I think the membership is coming alive and seeing the way. Generally the old & young know that the past performance is simply not there and that we need a major change in direction

Just sad seeing these folks try to cost the members more money. They have done enough damage already.

[Fanblade]

Ditch ACPA, join ALPA and pattern bargain like they do in the US, works for them, why wouldn’t it work here? Then we can all be on the same page and pilots aren’t making $117K as Skipper of a 737. Let’s truly get everyone working together for once …

Do you honestly think they'd ditch acpa? Every concession has came at the cost of the junior guys, so any old timers wouldn't care, the dues are "cheaper" as well so the people who don't care have nothing to gain.

I’m old. Well I don’t think so but you probably do!

I had enough almost a decade ago with ACPA. I’ve been impatiently waiting for you young farts to catch up.



This is not about senior vs junior. This is more about apathy. Beaten too many times. We gave up and went for a nap.

Wake me up when it’s time to rumble.