Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
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Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
Trying to clear something up here.
Locally to me, a guy sells "plane rides" in his four-seat floatplane for $200 an hour. He advertises and sells gift certificates online.
However, he only holds a PPL and boasts his "1000 hours on type" as an accolade. He's currently advertising for the summer season.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he can't do this, right?
I complained to TC last year but they didn't seem interested in pursuing. I might try again.
Locally to me, a guy sells "plane rides" in his four-seat floatplane for $200 an hour. He advertises and sells gift certificates online.
However, he only holds a PPL and boasts his "1000 hours on type" as an accolade. He's currently advertising for the summer season.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he can't do this, right?
I complained to TC last year but they didn't seem interested in pursuing. I might try again.
Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
Daniel Gustin
Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
You're correct, it is illegal. It also very likely violates the terms of the aircraft insurance, which could be a much more serious problem.
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Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
It is illegal. I am surprised Transport Canada did not pursue this matter when you informed them.
Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
Perhaps "help" the guy out and advertise in more places for him to get TC's attention
There was a guy at the cottage a few years ago going around trying to sell aerial photos of everyone's property. When I asked him for his AOC he took off pretty quick!
There was a guy at the cottage a few years ago going around trying to sell aerial photos of everyone's property. When I asked him for his AOC he took off pretty quick!
"Carelessness and overconfidence are more dangerous than deliberately accepted risk." -Wilbur Wright
Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
Doing aerial photography without an AOC does not contravene the CAR's.
Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
Very illegal. https://decisions.tatc.gc.ca/tatc/tatc/ ... 3/index.doAlbertaRunning wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:31 am Correct me if I'm wrong, but he can't do this, right?
I complained to TC last year but they didn't seem interested in pursuing. I might try again.
Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
I knew he didn't have commercial registration or license anyways...I've never studied the commercial material but it is clear from PPL that you can't make any money flying with it.
"Carelessness and overconfidence are more dangerous than deliberately accepted risk." -Wilbur Wright
Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
That's a tricky one. If you were a travelling plumber flying into lodges to fix toilets, you could do it with a PPL.
Aerial photography does require a plane, but photography does not.
One could argue that a travelling plumber would also require a plane.
The distinction might be that the plumber is not earning money while flying, yet the aerial photographer is doing part of his money earning while flying.
Curious what other opinions are.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
So where's the TC "gotcha" then? Aerial photography is clearly listed as Aerial work and considered a 702 operation in TP4711. A 702 operation is one of the CAR rules. Taking photos in itself from a plane definitely doesn't. If so, everyone who's ever snapped a photo out of a plane window would get a spanking. Is it that the guy tried to sell the photos?
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Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
I'm the OP here. Seems TC have over six weeks to reply, to meet their "service standards". The issue is that this pilot is actively marketing his flights and could potentially fly dozens and dozens of other people before TC get involved. Is there a quicker way to get their attention? I assume civil police can't do anything if I inform them?
Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
Post a link to the ad here. There are some TC people on avcanada.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
It's posted on such an obscure website (likely on purpose) for TC to find. They probably just need a little help finding it. Give them some time if you have reported it, they are likely behind.
"Carelessness and overconfidence are more dangerous than deliberately accepted risk." -Wilbur Wright
Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
That ad is also 2 or 4 years old, depending on the date format used.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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- Rank 0
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:29 am
Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
The ad pops back up and down often. I just grabbed a cached version for demo purposes. He's still active as folks are posting on Reddit discussing their flights with him, as recently as this weekend.
Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
Oh my, he's even in the yellow pages. Airplane registration confirms the plane is privately registered and linked to the same name as advertised in the ad.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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- Rank 0
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:29 am
Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
I hope TC takes it seriously.
Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
They should. If not, I'm going to start doing the same
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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- Rank 6
- Posts: 486
- Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:27 pm
Re: Is it legal for a PPL to "sell" rides in his own plane?
While aerial photography may be considered "aerial work" it doesn't necessarily fall under the mandate of 702.broken_slinky wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:35 am
So where's the TC "gotcha" then? Aerial photography is clearly listed as Aerial work and considered a 702 operation in TP4711. A 702 operation is one of the CAR rules. Taking photos in itself from a plane definitely doesn't. If so, everyone who's ever snapped a photo out of a plane window would get a spanking. Is it that the guy tried to sell the photos?
Because it would be nearly impossible to police everyone in an airplane with a camera, this is by design. Note that (a) applies if one carries a photographer. Technically speaking, the CARs specification of "aerial photography" is behind the times. Since very few people are still using film, photography is a very limited description, if they wished to regulate the increasing amount of this type of "aerial work" they need to talk in terms of data collection. But I digress.702.01 (1) Subject to subsection (2), this Subpart applies in respect of the operation of an aeroplane or helicopter in aerial work involving
(a) the carriage on board of persons other than flight crew members;
(b) the carriage of helicopter Class B, C or D external loads;
(c) the towing of objects; or
(d) the dispersal of products.
There are a lot of guys out there hawking photos taken while flying as PPLs with privately registered aircraft. Hilariously, they're also really territorial, I saw two competitors get into a fist fight once when they happened to end up getting fuel at the same place.
I'm not sure what's more depressing: That everyone has a price, or how low the price always is.