Parents don't send your kids to flight school

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iflymax
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Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by iflymax »

It isn't a good job, but I am too invested and look good in uniform (the only nice clothes I can afford)

I am bringing up this subject to help young adults who are considering an aviation career and are only limited to Canadian companies.
For context, I have been in the industry as a pilot since 2013 and started my flight training in 2011.

This is how flight schools sell the airline pilot "dream" to young students: A promising future with a guaranteed path into the major airlines within 5 years after flight school.
It sounded reasonable, considering I have yet to meet anyone from the industry (I strongly recommend talking to pilots from all airlines. We like to talk, especially about how little we get paid, but more on that later).
Needless to say, that was not my case (and I had a "good" run so far).

Let's do the math:
1.5 years loading bags and driving forklifts, which I got really good at.
2.5 years flying a mix of schedule, medivacs, and bag delivery services in northern Canada.
3 years at the regional airlines.
A total of 7 years with an average salary of 40,000 CAD, and I am being generous.

And in 2019, I started once again at the bottom of the list, only this time in one of the major airlines.
Even though I'm one of the lucky ones, in the majors, to get over 100,000 CAD takes at least another five years considering seniority and upgrade availabilities.

I want to think of myself as a modest person. A couple of months ago, I went to the bank and asked for pre-approval for a mortgage. If I use every penny I've got, I can afford to buy a place for 450,000 CAD.
Junior pilots in the majors are often based in the cities with the highest living costs in Canada. As a Toronto-based junior pilot, I cannot afford to rent or buy a modest family home with my pilot's paycheck. I want to start a family soon, and living in a 400sqft bachelor won't be an option for much longer.

The older generation had it good. Pilots back then were able to buy a house and maybe even a few. All that is left from that time now are broken dreams and misconceptions of what it's like to be a young pilot in today's Canada.
Pilots in Canada have no say. In every contract negotiation, the companies use our senior vs. junior pay, pension, and schedule differences to lower the bar even further. We always lose, with no exceptions.

I enjoy going to work, and I work with wonderful individuals, but a job that doesn't pay is not a good job.
I try not to eat at restaurants on layovers because I cannot afford a 40$ meal for the 9-12 nights I stay at hotels every month. It is sometimes uncomfortable to refuse an invite to join the flight crew for dinner, but most nights I find myself enjoying a healthy avocado and chips dinner.
The talk in the flight deck is 80% salary-related and how we have no power to change anything, so it is very tiring to hear how little we make and how much the Americans make as there's no point in bringing it up.

I wish things would get better, but this is the case now.

A few private pilots I have spoken to choose to pursue a different career based on the stories they hear from me. I can say I am more disappointed than proud of this, but I like facts, and that is why I chose to write this for parents and students who are trying to decide if aviation is the correct path for their loved ones. Asking pilots if they will send their kids to flight schools nowadays, I often get this answer, "I will not encourage it, but if that's what they want, so be it."

Please do your homework.
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digits_
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by digits_ »

What you wrote is mainly correct, but it's also (partially) a choice. Nobody is forcing you to try and get to the major airlines.

Stay on medevac, and you could hit the 100k mark pretty quickly, probably in your 4th year of flying.
Even as a 704 cpt in other jobs, you could easily make 70k or more.

Living in a major city is, again, a choice. Often linked to the major airline goal.
450k in Toronto will make you feel like a hobo. 450k in rural Sasakatchewan will make you feel like a lord in a castle.


I find that in aviation -and life in general- you can have it pretty sweet if you do the opposite of what the crowd does. You might not reach 'the top', but you could be pretty close.

Even then, you might decide commercial aviation is not for you, and work in another industry and fly for fun. Nothing wrong with that either.
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by broken_slinky »

+1 for what digits_ typed. I'm thinking the OP watched too many 70s movies where the pilot strolled off the plane with 10 stewardesses in tow. Jumped into his Corvette and headed to his Malibu mansion to float around in his pool.
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Aspiredtofly
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by Aspiredtofly »

Great thread. Just started flight training and my main goal would be the major airlines for sure. Well I was also thinking on how I would manage my finances in the future if those tiring wages won't change, not asking much but a 4-bedroom house would be above 800K or so depends upon the location but let's just say that this is Ontario. I'm pretty damn sure I won't and can't afford that for 55K job that the mainline has given me, I'm just holding onto my dear life thinking these wages would for the years coming further but it's not garunteed. I was also given an admission for the CS course that I applied at so and so university but I chose to become a pilot as it was my ambition since long ago. Kinda confused now
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TC.Enforcement
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by TC.Enforcement »

It's interesting the different paths people take.

I also started flying for a living in 2013. I chose the instructor route. First 6 months were rough, I'll admit. But after that, I was fortune enough to get in with a school that taught i-ATPL to overseas students. This meant I had a steady supply of students, and a base salary, even as a class 3. Eventually I worked my way over the next couple years all the way to a Class, before I become CFI at another school. Did a year there before I left to go fly detection in Northern Ontario. The pay wasn't horrible, and they even paid for your place!

With that experience in hand, I left to join a Medevac company. There, with my experience and the company in need, I upgraded to Captain in 6 months. I ended up at this company for nearly 6 years. By second year Captain I was making 100K. 5 years in total as Captain, earning an average of 105K a year. And no, I wasn't living in some Sioux Lookout or Pickle Lake. Staying where I did had major unintended albeit positive consequences. First, I wasn't laid off during the pandemic. Second, by staying I build up more and more valuable time. Now with 5,000 hours, and 4,300PIC, I've finally left to join new pastures, and secured my first jet job. With any luck, I'll be looking at 6-12 months for an upgrade. And with the amount of OT at some of these places, I have friends making 150K as F/O's at some places in their second year.

I've also sold my house in Ontario and moving out to Alberta. I'm taking my money and running. Yes this is not for everyone, but I've always wanted to be out closer to the mountains.

Everyone is going to have their own opinions based on their experience. I'm sorry you've had such a rough ride, but to paint the industry with one brush? I love being a pilot, and I'm pretty good at it if I do say so myself. Every job had its highs and lows, but as someone who's worked in the government before coming to aviation, I can tell you sitting in a cubicle is something I don't ever want to go back to.
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sstaurus
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by sstaurus »

I’ll second the other posters here. You have to be willing to take the path less travelled by others. And I don’t want to overuse the old ‘passion for the job’… but you definitely have to have a genuine interest and enjoyment for it, there’s a reason most of us don’t want a desk job.

On a side note, keep a good hobby or two outside of flying, then you won’t be one of those guys who has nothing to say but complain about contracts in the flight deck :rolleyes:
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by Squaretail »

Don't tell Mom I'm a pilot. She still thinks I'm a piano player in a whore house.
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by sjatana »

I am not ignorant to what is out there in our industry but I have been on the other side of the career fence. This is a great profession with highs and lows. Money is important but if it is the be all and end all newcomers to this profession will surely be disappointed very early on and should seriously reconsider their career choice. On the other hand, being stuck on the lowest rung of the socio-economic ladder for X number of years whilst eating Kraft dinner everynight is not a good thing either...

I have met millionaires outside of aviation completely miserable with what they are doing but unable or unwilling to get out because of the golden handcuffs. I have also come across many folks in this industry who do not put all their eggs into the aviation basket and have ventures outside of flying, myself included.

This industry will never be perfect but I absolutely love this job. Other industries have their own flavour of issues, some saltier and some just too spicy to handle. Our choices and what we decide to focus on everyday defines a life satisfaction path moving forward and I believe that anyone who can stomach the realities of this industry, has a passion to fly and can keep themselves grounded throughout the journey will do just fine. Always remember it's just a job and when you finish up with the post flight duties to go home, you leave everything "else" behind.
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ant_321
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by ant_321 »

Do parents choose their children’s careers now?
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arezania
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by arezania »

Yes the salary is laughable. Its crazy how many non aviation people think we are all making big bux. No an FO salary will not buy you a house in Toronto. That being said, what salary nowadays can? Does everyone have to be a doctor to buy a 3 bedroom townhouse? People are literally buying houses with strangers just to get in the market. The housing crisis isn't only affecting flight crew, but virtually anybody who doesn't own property in Canada's major cities. Even if your mortgage preapproval limit tripled, you would still be faced with endless bidding wars on single family homes in the GTA.

Back to your point, my start up in aviation was a bit different. I worked in oil and gas while flying part time and went full time flying in late 2019. I was making over 2x my pilot salary working oil and gas with the potential to earn 3x with overtime. People called me stupid, you may even think I am stupid lol.

I was even laid off from that pilot job summer 2020. Fast forward to now, I still 100% stand by my choice to fly full time and leave oil and gas. No regrets. The experiences I have had, the people I have met and the places I have seen have felt way more fulfilling than mortgaging a house in Alberta, a car and a week in Cabo. Yeah the money was cool, but there would have always been a regret of not chasing the dream.

I will also assure you that pilots aren't the only ones who complain about pay. Imagine sitting next to five 28 year olds complaining about not getting enough overtime to buy their 2nd boat.

Anything you like to do on the side? People pay for a lot of things these days...
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by ‘Bob’ »

“Gentlemen, it’s time!”


Hello everyone. I’m “Bob”. That’s “Bob” with quotation marks. All the time.

My username is an homage to founder of the Church of the SubGenius JR “Bob” Dobbs... ...only. While I cannot claim to be this legendary individual, it has come to my realization that he and the Church of the SubGenius embody my ideals and probably the ideals of many on this websie. The Dude is also a close embodiment of this ideal as well that the younger generations might identify with. Captain America from Easy Rider or Alfred E. Neuman from Mad are ones the older generations might recognize.

I’ve been flying for dickety-aught years and my motivations are simple. Get paid to do as little work as possible, and enjoy life with no worries. This is in essence our core value of Slack. It is my hope to find similar individuals on this websie and pool our resources together so we can find better ways in which to embody Slack.

Now... ...the ideal embodiment of Slack is to simply do nothing. Just go with the flow, and let others take care of your needs. A trust fund, sugar momma, sugar daddy, living in your parent’s basement, or being close friends to those who have any of those things which can mutually benefit you as well.

Alas, I did not have many of those. I’m not good looking. I’m not all that smart. I’m not all that manipulative or deceitful (which requires hard work, best to be avoided). And I didn’t win the sperm lottery.

So I had to figure out which way was best to get to Slack Nirvana. I looked at all of the jobs (I know... ...terrible word) and pilot came up. Get paid big bucks to eat, sleep, sit, and stare out the window. I’m in!

Now, the unfortunate thing about a flying career is that it’s not what’s advertised on the shiny brochure, and quite often you need to take a step back to move forward. Maybe two steps. Maybe three steps.

Unfortunately, the promises of sooooooooo much Slack down the road blinds many people to the present. They are practically running backwards. If this is you. Or if you have achieved the Slack lifestyle but are now using your free time for a side hustle or “passive” income that is anything but, or even worse, a second job... ...then this post is not for you and I suggest you come back when you revaluate your existence.

So starting out if the Bank of Dad can’t get you a shiny aviation diploma and you can’t sweet talk your way into a flying job, you need a couple steps backwards at most. First, find a job to get your license while you are living in your parents basement or on your ex-girlfriend’s couch. Second, find a job that will get your foot in the door.

The first job is a menial job that is probably going to offer low pay for hard work. Don’t lose hope. Try to @#$! the dog any way you can as much as you can without getting fired.

The second job? After you’ve got your tickets? That’s going to be a menial one too and it’s going to be even harder work for less pay because there’s a carrot attached to it which is the flying career you so badly want. Ain’t no way a true blue blood Slacker would last more than an hour rolling drums or loading bags... ...but remember who will be laughing last a few years down the road.

Now. In both of these jobs. You don’t want to do too good of a job. Just good enough. Remember, you want to actively avoid almost all effort. You don’t want to act the brown noser and you definitely don’t want to be outstanding in your field—lest you become too valuable and now you are stuck rolling drums while some less-than-competent but smarter individual is on his way to easy street.

Lots of times people are promoted to their level of ineptitude. They will cause too much damage—both physical and morale—that the powers that be will give them a special place where they can no longer hurt anything.

For some people, eventually, this is management. But don’t fall into the management trap. It looks like it’s easy but it’s not and it often isn’t worth it. It’s far better to be the guy setting the fires than the guy who’s trying to put them out.

Whatever you do, do not listen to people who are trying to one up each other, put down each other, measure their phalluses, or have great plans to stand at the top of the aviation pyramid. They are shrewd, delusional, miserable, and their toxicity will entrap you very easily. Do not participate in political discussions, office politics, union politics, bashing the competition, or anything like that.

All of those things affect you and your health and calm nonchalant zero-fucks given outlook on life far more if you are emotionally invested in them than they are actually physically capable of doing.

Remember, scope is what you wash your mouth out with, equipment bid is what farmers do at auctions, block holder is the rubber tote for your Legos, and seniority is a young Mexican girl.

Now you’re in! Where to from here?

You have to prioritize. Least work. Least BS. Getting paid. In that order.

Flying four sectors a month is great. Very difficult to get better than that from a Slacker perspective. But if you had to pay your dues flying 8 legs a day in a regional or have to commute halfway across the country and couch surf, live in a van, or worst of all pay for a crash pad, you’ve lost the game.

Taking half the year off is great. But if you have to work CARs maximums the other half and live in a camp, you’ve lost the game.

Or maybe you haven’t? Maybe you like it? I’m not here to judge. But it’s not for me and definitely not for most people and definitely not what this post is about.

The key is to set your sights on maximum advancement with minimum effort. Go with the flow, man. Take the easy advancements during booms and shortages, and then settle in for the long haul as the world crashes around you. As many are finding out, sleeping in a van halfway across the country for flat pay and a layoff was much worse than just staying at their King Air job.

Now... ...not everyone is a Slacker, and it’s not your job to convert them or proselytize them. In fact, this is where you can use them to your advantage.

Now, it doesn’t work when they are above you unless there’s things they can do that you can’t do. Ain’t no way the captain is doing a walk around at -30 when it’s your job. Gotta suck it up. It doesn’t always work when they are at the same level as you. You can’t delegate either otherwise you’re bossy and in for a world of hurt. But if you’ve got a keener who’s looking to suck up to the boss or manager for a promotion, let him do so. In my experience, it’s been the more nonchalant guys who get on the flight line or get the upgrade because they aren’t bothering their superiors constantly.

But when you are aircraft commander. Particularly at a place with young, naïve, and keen low timers, the world is your oyster. You don’t even have to ask or suggest. These keeners will do anything they think will improve their position, while making your life easier and making themselves irreplaceable.

This is even better if you have a PICUS carrot that you can dangle. Most FOs getting PICUS think that the key to being a captain is being able to do anything and everything. It’s not. It’s the ability to delegate, trust in your delegates, and make informed decisions as necessary. But let them think that’s how it’s done.

Now... ...one thing that can happen is that you might be accused of laziness. This rarely happens from the bottom up unless you have a real experienced FO who is used to working with unnecessarily keen captains. The key is to have some backup knowledge or bullshit that makes you seem smarter than you really are.

In the interests of extreme Slacktitude, it should always be something that prevents the trip rather than makes it possible. Like the effects of compounding MELs, NOTAMs, airport levels of service, approach ban and alternate minima. Duty regs. Contaminated runway operations. Etc. Don’t take much to make you permanently grounded. If you can throw out one of these gems every so often then the FOs realize how much they don’t know and will double their efforts.

Money? Hell no. But it’s a comfortable existence outside of the big smoke. I’d say that in Toronto or Vancouver wages my lifestyle would require over a million a year. And to still be excited to get into an airplane after all this time.

But by all means… dream of that $300k US per year salary and that north Dallas McMansion if that’s what floats your boat and be miserable that you will never have it. Be bitter about never affording a house south of North Bay or west of Hope.

I’ll never have it… and I couldn’t care less. I’d still get my pilots license all over again.
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iflymax
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by iflymax »

Great to see the subject is interesting, even for well-established medevac captains making over $100,000CAD.

I have experienced medevacs and have great respect for the job. But to say it is a choice, I will argue that most flight school students don't consider the "choice" of Corporate, Bush, or Flight instructing as a career.

The majority of people aspiring to become commercial pilots want a career in the airlines. So when I write this, I am talking to the statistical majority, not the selected few that went on to dedicate their lives to the 3 AM, -30C, and 300lbs stretcher patient lifestyle. I am grateful for the opportunity and experience, and I even had fun, but I know I wasn't ok with doing that job for 30-40 years.

The majority of commercial pilot jobs in Canada are 705 commercial airline operations. I am reaching out to the people that love the idea of not working in an office Monday to Friday and want to have the freedom to travel with the family around the world (most if not all of those choices like Medevac, Bush, Corporate, and Flight Instructing jobs don't offer any flight benefits, but a few companies that have jumpseat agreements for the active pilot only! A big turndown for my liking) and are unaware of the lame salary and the years invested in getting to that lifestyle.

It's definitely a choice, but let's face it, most people don't stay more than 4 years in a King Air or Pilatus if they can avoid it. And the way I see it, they don't stay longer, not because the money isn't "good" or the cockpit is too small (737 isn't much bigger). They leave because they want to layover in San Francisco and not Thompson, Manitoba. They want to wear a clean uniform and not a parka soaked with de-icing fluid. The biggest reason is that they want to make the 300,000CAD wide-body captain salary one day. (Dear flight school student, you might never get to that amount of money as it takes 20-25 years of seniority to hold the most junior spots usually, and by the time you get into the airlines and go through a few mergers, contract negotiations and fleet restructures those high paying positions might not exist...)

I will not apologize for going into this wanting a well-paid, respected profession and the cool lifestyle I viewed in the movies. But I would like to open this subject for the parents paying for/helping with the loans (thanks, mom, still owe you) for their kids' future and for the students who will have to battle with the hard decisions of what path they take. So to say that we have highs and lows like any other industry and that everyone takes a different path is correct, but the numbers talk, and the thousands of pilots in the "major airlines" that work in Canada chose this path over the other "Choices." I'm here for facts, and if you are considering an aviation career, you have to understand the realities before you have to "stomach" them.
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by Alpha6600 »

It's good to know what to expect. I slogged it out from after high school until I was about 30. Made the best decisions I could, worked hard. Then life and my career got better. I've been able to weather storms because of what I learned when I made nothing, and I'm doing better than almost all of the people I know, except a few successful people in business. So thanks for painting the picture that includes paying your dues, but I have no sympathy for people who have to persevere. It makes life meaningful. I'm grateful for how things turned out for me. Doctors don't really make money until they're thirty. Vets and lawyers and dentists pay dues until they're established. If you want to make $100k after 2 years of work and training be a plumber or some other honourable trade. They are in demand and do important work, but unless you become the business owner, your earnings are capped by how hard you can grind.

Congratulations if you made it through the funnel. I appreciate that most of the professionals I work with have developed character shaped by adversity. I wouldn't wish an easy life on anyone I care about.
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by newlygrounded »

Alpha6600 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:41 am It's good to know what to expect. I slogged it out from after high school until I was about 30. Made the best decisions I could, worked hard. Then life and my career got better. I've been able to weather storms because of what I learned when I made nothing, and I'm doing better than almost all of the people I know, except a few successful people in business. So thanks for painting the picture that includes paying your dues, but I have no sympathy for people who have to persevere. It makes life meaningful. I'm grateful for how things turned out for me. Doctors don't really make money until they're thirty. Vets and lawyers and dentists pay dues until they're established. If you want to make $100k after 2 years of work and training be a plumber or some other honourable trade. They are in demand and do important work, but unless you become the business owner, your earnings are capped by how hard you can grind.

Congratulations if you made it through the funnel. I appreciate that most of the professionals I work with have developed character shaped by adversity. I wouldn't wish an easy life on anyone I care about.
@#$! this "pay your dues" shit, from what I hear a lot of people are taken advantage of and not treated professionally at all, being strung along and told lies (ex, PIW jobs) Plenty of industries treat people like a person from day 1.

Do you think software developers are scrubbing toilets or strung along by dishonest companies? No they're making close to 6 figures if not more day one out of school and treated like a human.

I'm happy you found meaning in your struggle, but the thing about life is everyone gets to define their own meaning. I personally enjoy doing things I like with the people I love. Everyone loves to harp on younger people for being "lazy" but otoh they figured out their worth and what they're willing to put up with. A lot seem to have a better QOL than us people who'd give up almost everything for what we want.
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digits_
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by digits_ »

newlygrounded wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:14 pm
Do you think software developers are scrubbing toilets or strung along by dishonest companies? No they're making close to 6 figures if not more day one out of school and treated like a human.
Treated like a human, yes.
Making close to 6 figures out of school? Unlikely. Job ads are advertising 40 - 60k for brand new developers. It will likely take about 5-6 years to break 100k. Still better than flying, but comparing extreme examples doesn't help anyone :wink:
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by newlygrounded »

digits_ wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:36 pm
newlygrounded wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:14 pm
Do you think software developers are scrubbing toilets or strung along by dishonest companies? No they're making close to 6 figures if not more day one out of school and treated like a human.
Treated like a human, yes.
Making close to 6 figures out of school? Unlikely. Job ads are advertising 40 - 60k for brand new developers. It will likely take about 5-6 years to break 100k. Still better than flying, but comparing extreme examples doesn't help anyone :wink:
Fair! I know a lot of people at a top tier school in Canada so my view is skewed, the nice part though is if you create some projects during your school days or contribute to some open source it's a lot easier to justify a senior position when you graduate
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by photofly »

newlygrounded wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:14 pm Do you think software developers are scrubbing toilets or strung along by dishonest companies?
Writing software requires talent.
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by Alpha6600 »

newlygrounded wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:14 pm

@#$! this "pay your dues" shit, from what I hear a lot of people are taken advantage of and not treated professionally at all, being strung along and told lies (ex, PIW jobs) Plenty of industries treat people like a person from day 1.

Do you think software developers are scrubbing toilets or strung along by dishonest companies? No they're making close to 6 figures if not more day one out of school and treated like a human.

I'm happy you found meaning in your struggle, but the thing about life is everyone gets to define their own meaning. I personally enjoy doing things I like with the people I love. Everyone loves to harp on younger people for being "lazy" but otoh they figured out their worth and what they're willing to put up with. A lot seem to have a better QOL than us people who'd give up almost everything for what we want.
OP said: The older generation had it good. Pilots back then were able to buy a house and maybe even a few. All that is left from that time now are broken dreams and misconceptions of what it's like to be a young pilot in today's Canada.



What generation is he talking about? Not mine, and not anyone I know. I never said people shouldn't be treated professionally. I generally (but not always) was. I still had to sweep some floors, load bags and fuel some planes. I had to work other jobs. Very few students start making $100k in any field on day 1, so good for the OP for telling people what it's going to be like - just like it was 30 years ago, it's a grind for a decade. The promised pilot shortage that never comes.

If this is all it takes to scare you off, then pick a different path to be sure. But the OP is telling Parents not to allow their kids to go to flight school. I'm not telling my kids to do anything for a career, but if they pick aviation I'll support them. I'll support them in any career that has a legit prospect of supporting them.

If you want a balanced picture take the OP's opinion and balance it with that of some oldies who persevered. Most people I know my age were sort of bitter too. Then we woke up all it once and realized that it was starting to turn out good. Most of your Captains swept floors too.
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newlygrounded
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by newlygrounded »

Alpha6600 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:54 am
newlygrounded wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:14 pm

@#$! this "pay your dues" shit, from what I hear a lot of people are taken advantage of and not treated professionally at all, being strung along and told lies (ex, PIW jobs) Plenty of industries treat people like a person from day 1.

Do you think software developers are scrubbing toilets or strung along by dishonest companies? No they're making close to 6 figures if not more day one out of school and treated like a human.

I'm happy you found meaning in your struggle, but the thing about life is everyone gets to define their own meaning. I personally enjoy doing things I like with the people I love. Everyone loves to harp on younger people for being "lazy" but otoh they figured out their worth and what they're willing to put up with. A lot seem to have a better QOL than us people who'd give up almost everything for what we want.
OP said: The older generation had it good. Pilots back then were able to buy a house and maybe even a few. All that is left from that time now are broken dreams and misconceptions of what it's like to be a young pilot in today's Canada.



What generation is he talking about? Not mine, and not anyone I know. I never said people shouldn't be treated professionally. I generally (but not always) was. I still had to sweep some floors, load bags and fuel some planes. I had to work other jobs. Very few students start making $100k in any field on day 1, so good for the OP for telling people what it's going to be like - just like it was 30 years ago, it's a grind for a decade. The promised pilot shortage that never comes.

If this is all it takes to scare you off, then pick a different path to be sure. But the OP is telling Parents not to allow their kids to go to flight school. I'm not telling my kids to do anything for a career, but if they pick aviation I'll support them. I'll support them in any career that has a legit prospect of supporting them.

If you want a balanced picture take the OP's opinion and balance it with that of some oldies who persevered. Most people I know my age were sort of bitter too. Then we woke up all it once and realized that it was starting to turn out good. Most of your Captains swept floors too.
I remember westjet was telling some captains to help clean, the backlash I heard from friends was insane! We're not cleaners.....
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: Parents don't send your kids to flight school

Post by Ash Ketchum »

photofly wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:40 pm
newlygrounded wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:14 pm Do you think software developers are scrubbing toilets or strung along by dishonest companies?
Writing software requires talent.
Not necessarily. I used to be an average talented software dev but did alright because I worked very hard. I think most people can get good at most things if they grind it out.
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