Another DC3 turbine crashed in Colombia

[JasonE]

Holy cow - that's 2 in a week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6TVTjl ... lancolirio

[Tbayer2021]

Colombia*

[Dias]

Holy cow - that's 2 in a week.

Where was the first one? Pickle Lake again?

[J31]

DC 3-65TP Loss of Directional Control Colombia SA 8 April 2022

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CCy3s4vIBw

[Mick G]

Wow, no discipline in the cockpit, this should have been a RTO this minute it departed the runway. What in tarnation would lead a crew to continue, especially with passengers on board! This gets my blood boiling, good thing no one was killed

[Dias]

What's the proper way to RTO in a DC-3 anyways? Can you get on the brakes hard without it nosing over?

[JasonE]

Never flown a DC3 but have tailwheel time. I'd assume maximum braking without nosing over combined with elevator control keep the tail high until taxi speed. May depend on remaining runway length, apparently you just yank it into the air and hope for the best when you run out.

[Mick G]

What's the proper way to RTO in a DC-3 anyways? Can you get on the brakes hard without it nosing over?

I doubt there would be a risk of it nosing over in this case, as the tail didn't even get in the air the entire rollout, worst case, is they ground loop it, but at least then better than what they did........only my opinion

[Dias]

I'd assume maximum braking without nosing over

How close would maximum braking without nosing over be compared to actual maximum braking?

[geodoc]

Juan Brown gives a good run-down:

https://youtu.be/j6TVTjlMnp4



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[JasonE]

Juan Brown gives a good run-down:

https://youtu.be/j6TVTjlMnp4



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Yup, I guess you didn't click on the video in the first post

[JasonE]

How close would maximum braking without nosing over be compared to actual maximum braking?

Sorry no experience with one. You'd have to find an experienced Dak driver to ask.

[PilotDAR]

Yes, I agree with the observations made in the Youtube video. My time flying The Balser is limited, but I did lots of slow flight and stalls during testing, and that's what it will do if you fly it too slowly - it stalls and rolls left, and only a proper spin recovery, with a few thousand feet to play with, is going to get you out. The DC-3 has lots of aileron, and if you crank the ailerons over at slow speed, they may as well be dive brakes, 'cause they're not going to roll you upright anymore!

The Colombian Police are very experienced Basler operators, and Basler's company training is excellent, so I don't know why one of the Colombian pilots would botch a takeoff this way. Once you've left the runway, just pull the power off, and perhaps some reverse to reduce the divergence. I never used the brakes hard on the Basler, I never needed to! I was once jump seat to an awesome Basler pilot, down and turned off in less than 1,100 feet of runway with absolute grace, very little braking or reverse - a very able plane if flown well. A tiger if you abuse it.

This is a lesson in achieving and maintaining flying speed with correct airplane attitude during takeoff, this pilot didn't and the PNF does not seem to have affected anything to prevent an accident. The Youtube presenter is right, get the tail up, so the wings can fly, rather than stall into the air. Sometimes "I think I can, I think I can..." is wrong - you can't, and you should know to stop trying early enough.

[geodoc]

Juan Brown gives a good run-down:

https://youtu.be/j6TVTjlMnp4



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Yup, I guess you didn't click on the video in the first post

OOPS!



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[pelmet]

This is interesting. After listening to Juan state that this was the takeoff.....another site is saying that this was actually an landing and attempted go-around. Can't tell from the video......

A Basler BT-67 Turbo 67 crashed during a failed landing at Villavicencio-La Vanguardia Airport.
A video of the accident shows that the aircraft veered off the left side of runway 23. The aircraft continued on the grass. After passing abeam the runway end, the pilot then appears to pull up the aircraft to clear some trees, after which the aircraft banked left and fell into an area of trees and shrubs. The aircraft sustained substantial damage to the nose, wings and undercarriage.

[Eric Janson]

This is interesting. After listening to Juan state that this was the takeoff.....another site is saying that this was actually an landing and attempted go-around. Can't tell from the video......

With the tail on the ground a go-around doesn't make sense imho.

I wish Juan would stop talking about the rudder being "blanked out" - rudder on the DC-3 is effective anytime the aircraft is moving. Simply standing behind a DC-3 with the engines running demonstrate how much airflow the propellors provide.

[FL030]

With the tail on the ground a go-around doesn't make sense imho.

I wish Juan would stop talking about the rudder being "blanked out" - rudder on the DC-3 is effective anytime the aircraft is moving. Simply standing behind a DC-3 with the engines running demonstrate how much airflow the propellors provide.

What about when they're in beta/reverse?

[TG]

Imagine how many close-calls they must have had before they finally crashed!

On a turbine DC-3 you will be in a world of hurt if you put your props in Beta with your tail still up.

[Eric Janson]

With the tail on the ground a go-around doesn't make sense imho.

I wish Juan would stop talking about the rudder being "blanked out" - rudder on the DC-3 is effective anytime the aircraft is moving. Simply standing behind a DC-3 with the engines running demonstrate how much airflow the propellors provide.

What about when they're in beta/reverse?

Good point - I'm only familiar with the Piston version.

[JasonE]

With the tail on the ground a go-around doesn't make sense imho.

I wish Juan would stop talking about the rudder being "blanked out" - rudder on the DC-3 is effective anytime the aircraft is moving. Simply standing behind a DC-3 with the engines running demonstrate how much airflow the propellors provide.

Watch the flightchops DC3 video where they just about blew a cub off the taxiway!