POST PAY IN JOB ADS!

[Bede]

More like we accept shit pay as pilots because we have no choice until we can actually make good money... well, we do have a choice, to all collectively, as a group, say no, and then force the hand of these operators paying less then mcdonalds managers, but, that's all a nice pipe dream, although, maybe one day, just maybe...

You have a choice. But you choose to work for the low wages now in the hopes that the larger wages are worth it down the road. There's lots of smaller operators who pay well. You never hear about them because guys make a career there and they don't talk about it.

[twa22]

More like we accept shit pay as pilots because we have no choice until we can actually make good money... well, we do have a choice, to all collectively, as a group, say no, and then force the hand of these operators paying less then mcdonalds managers, but, that's all a nice pipe dream, although, maybe one day, just maybe...

You have a choice. But you choose to work for the low wages now in the hopes that the larger wages are worth it down the road. There's lots of smaller operators who pay well. You never hear about them because guys make a career there and they don't talk about it.

But do I really? I have just under 1000 hours and I'm still struggling to find a job, and I'm not the only one in the same boat, many others like me with similar hours are also having a hard time

So what are we lower hour guys/gals supposed to do when a shit job paying 30k a year comes around, say no? I'd personally love to, hell, I make double that now in an unqualified job barely doing any work, it absolutely blows my mind how that's possible... The logical thing would be to do never even go back to aviation. Here's the thing, I love flying, and like many, I can't stand an office job, and can tolerate non office jobs, but I'd rather fly. So while I can say no all day to horrible paying flying jobs in poor working conditions, which I would, I unfortunately wouldn't get any hours in my logbook so I can seek greener pastures down the road

I am all for hearing your suggestions of where to find a place to build hours while making a decent wage, and actually getting that job, because after everything I just told you, I doubt that exists

End of the day, someone will always take that 30k a year job to get those hours... Sad reality we have to deal with until we all say enough as a collective unit

[Roar]

More like we accept shit pay as pilots because we have no choice until we can actually make good money... well, we do have a choice, to all collectively, as a group, say no, and then force the hand of these operators paying less then mcdonalds managers, but, that's all a nice pipe dream, although, maybe one day, just maybe...

You have a choice. But you choose to work for the low wages now in the hopes that the larger wages are worth it down the road. There's lots of smaller operators who pay well. You never hear about them because guys make a career there and they don't talk about it.

But do I really? I have just under 1000 hours and I'm still struggling to find a job, and I'm not the only one in the same boat, many others like me with similar hours are also having a hard time

So what are we lower hour guys/gals supposed to do when a shit job paying 30k a year comes around, say no? I'd personally love to, hell, I make double that now in an unqualified job barely doing any work, it absolutely blows my mind how that's possible... The logical thing would be to do never even go back to aviation. Here's the thing, I love flying, and like many, I can't stand an office job, and can tolerate non office jobs, but I'd rather fly. So while I can say no all day to horrible paying flying jobs in poor working conditions, which I would, I unfortunately wouldn't get any hours in my logbook so I can seek greener pastures down the road

I am all for hearing your suggestions of where to find a place to build hours while making a decent wage, and actually getting that job, because after everything I just told you, I doubt that exists

End of the day, someone will always take that 30k a year job to get those hours... Sad reality we have to deal with until we all say enough as a collective unit
[/quote]

What do you do? Well here’s an opportunity.
viewtopic.php?t=157077

[goingmissed]

Seriously?

I think the whole concept of TFW’s is F——d up. Can’t believe thats allowed.

Rips you guys off.

You guys have LOUSY unions. Hello?

What do your union leaders do for their rich dues? Really?

Hey I’m just an observer…..

My union reps are paid the same shit salaries as the rest of us and are as pissed off as the rest of us.

I am optimistic for the future. It starts with a conversation about how your pilots need to work two jobs to make ends meet.

[jeremyh1]

Is this a website for airlines or for PILOTS?

FOR TOO LONG companies have been hiding behind cute little job ads that DO NOT LIST THEIR PAY! Last time I checked there's a growing labor shortage with a lot less ATPL's flying around! OUR LICENCES ARE IN DEMAND. This website should reflect that demand appropriately!

Therefore, it should be a requirement that all "free" job ads listed on AvCanada POST THEIR PAY. None of this mumbo jumbo about "work life balance" or "competitive pay packages". We all know that amounts to horse sh*t!

Let pilots make informed decisions! Promote pilot PAY!

Great idea. I don’t reply much here but this post definitely resonated with me…

Perhaps this will finally convince some of these smaller companies to stop trying to convince us pilots to come work for them with cutesy little ads about how much fun they all have on the road with each other because they stay in such fancy hotels like the Garden Inn and Courtyard whilst they also get to dine out at equally fancy restaurants like Kelsey’s and Montana’s… as if that’s an actual selling point. I forgot to mention how you have to be a “team player” by doing duties “as assigned” because you work in a small operation and being taken advantage of is a normal expectation. Of course the kicker is “we also have super immaculate and incredibly fun to fly small turboprops and jets, however if you hope to have an actual schedule published to the CARS minimums or perhaps even a little better than that, this job isn’t for you… your days off are the days you don’t fly.”

Glad someone finally made mention of this. Job ads should definitely include rates of pay, plus the soliciting company’s expectations in terms of time away from base and time free from duty. No more “pay and schedule commensurate with experience” BS. That game is over there folks, it’s not 2010 anymore.

Jeremy

[TG]

Compagnies would reduce their pile of CV big time by stating pay and benefices

Lots of companies keep their salaries secret. I assume they think they would get some advantage from that. I personally doubt it.

It gives them a negotiation avantage and we trend to under evaluate ourselves big time as candidates (Not only in aviation)

On a personal note, I would run away from companies not willing to give their salary range during an interview as they are not truthful. You also have the right to know the salary range of any job you pursue before giving up a word about your salary requirements.

I want a job that pays me for my time worked, not for when the engines are running.

I want a flying job that pays me for my decisions making, not for my time.

[schnitzel2k3]

More like we accept shit pay as pilots because we have no choice until we can actually make good money... well, we do have a choice, to all collectively, as a group, say no, and then force the hand of these operators paying less then mcdonalds managers, but, that's all a nice pipe dream, although, maybe one day, just maybe...

You have a choice. But you choose to work for the low wages now in the hopes that the larger wages are worth it down the road. There's lots of smaller operators who pay well. You never hear about them because guys make a career there and they don't talk about it.

But do I really? I have just under 1000 hours and I'm still struggling to find a job, and I'm not the only one in the same boat, many others like me with similar hours are also having a hard time

So what are we lower hour guys/gals supposed to do when a shit job paying 30k a year comes around, say no? I'd personally love to, hell, I make double that now in an unqualified job barely doing any work, it absolutely blows my mind how that's possible... The logical thing would be to do never even go back to aviation. Here's the thing, I love flying, and like many, I can't stand an office job, and can tolerate non office jobs, but I'd rather fly. So while I can say no all day to horrible paying flying jobs in poor working conditions, which I would, I unfortunately wouldn't get any hours in my logbook so I can seek greener pastures down the road

I am all for hearing your suggestions of where to find a place to build hours while making a decent wage, and actually getting that job, because after everything I just told you, I doubt that exists

End of the day, someone will always take that 30k a year job to get those hours... Sad reality we have to deal with until we all say enough as a collective unit

What do you do? Well here’s an opportunity.
viewtopic.php?t=157077
[/quote]

It's not 705, on a jet or Dash with an FA and flowthrough to Big Red.

Curb your suggestions Mr. Roar....

[Loon-A-Tic]

You have a choice. But you choose to work for the low wages now in the hopes that the larger wages are worth it down the road. There's lots of smaller operators who pay well. You never hear about them because guys make a career there and they don't talk about it.

But do I really? I have just under 1000 hours and I'm still struggling to find a job, and I'm not the only one in the same boat, many others like me with similar hours are also having a hard time

So what are we lower hour guys/gals supposed to do when a shit job paying 30k a year comes around, say no? I'd personally love to, hell, I make double that now in an unqualified job barely doing any work, it absolutely blows my mind how that's possible... The logical thing would be to do never even go back to aviation. Here's the thing, I love flying, and like many, I can't stand an office job, and can tolerate non office jobs, but I'd rather fly. So while I can say no all day to horrible paying flying jobs in poor working conditions, which I would, I unfortunately wouldn't get any hours in my logbook so I can seek greener pastures down the road

I am all for hearing your suggestions of where to find a place to build hours while making a decent wage, and actually getting that job, because after everything I just told you, I doubt that exists

End of the day, someone will always take that 30k a year job to get those hours... Sad reality we have to deal with until we all say enough as a collective unit

What do you do? Well here’s an opportunity.
viewtopic.php?t=157077

It's not 705, on a jet or Dash with an FA and flowthrough to Big Red.

Curb your suggestions Mr. Roar....
[/quote]

Along with some other skills that the "average" sub-1000 hour pilot wouldn't likely have either.

[twa22]

You have a choice. But you choose to work for the low wages now in the hopes that the larger wages are worth it down the road. There's lots of smaller operators who pay well. You never hear about them because guys make a career there and they don't talk about it.

But do I really? I have just under 1000 hours and I'm still struggling to find a job, and I'm not the only one in the same boat, many others like me with similar hours are also having a hard time

So what are we lower hour guys/gals supposed to do when a shit job paying 30k a year comes around, say no? I'd personally love to, hell, I make double that now in an unqualified job barely doing any work, it absolutely blows my mind how that's possible... The logical thing would be to do never even go back to aviation. Here's the thing, I love flying, and like many, I can't stand an office job, and can tolerate non office jobs, but I'd rather fly. So while I can say no all day to horrible paying flying jobs in poor working conditions, which I would, I unfortunately wouldn't get any hours in my logbook so I can seek greener pastures down the road

I am all for hearing your suggestions of where to find a place to build hours while making a decent wage, and actually getting that job, because after everything I just told you, I doubt that exists

End of the day, someone will always take that 30k a year job to get those hours... Sad reality we have to deal with until we all say enough as a collective unit

What do you do? Well here’s an opportunity.
viewtopic.php?t=157077

It's not 705, on a jet or Dash with an FA and flowthrough to Big Red.

Curb your suggestions Mr. Roar....
[/quote]

Not sure why you're taking a jab at me, I never once suggested I need some big shiny metal job at a 705 with my current experience

FWIW, I did apply to the job Roar suggested... No need to poke at people you have no clue about

[5x5]

I want a flying job that pays me for my decisions making, not for my time.

Interesting concept - any suggestions as how that would be evaluated and quantified? Without some way to measure it, it would be very difficult to decide how much to pay for it.

[schnitzel2k3]

Not sure why you're taking a jab at me, I never once suggested I need some big shiny metal job at a 705 with my current experience

FWIW, I did apply to the job Roar suggested... No need to poke at people you have no clue about

Not at you, tongue in cheek, in general.

I know a lot about the 1000 hr purgatory - I also know the mindset of a 1000 hr pilot - most holding out for what I described above and few willing to go for an adventure, or trudge off the beaten path if there is no direct routing to Big Red.

The fresh CPLs pre-2019 had what seemed like endless opportunity to skip to the 'good' part.

Good luck.

[twa22]

Not sure why you're taking a jab at me, I never once suggested I need some big shiny metal job at a 705 with my current experience

FWIW, I did apply to the job Roar suggested... No need to poke at people you have no clue about

Not at you, tongue in cheek, in general.

I know a lot about the 1000 hr purgatory - I also know the mindset of a 1000 hr pilot - most holding out for what I described above and few willing to go for an adventure, or trudge off the beaten path if there is no direct routing to Big Red.

The fresh CPLs pre-2019 had what seemed like endless opportunity to skip to the 'good' part.

Good luck.

Fair enough, I can't speak for others but can see where you're coming from. Anyways, here's to hoping for better days ahead for all, not just low timers, it's time wages and conditions improve across the board from the smallest 702 to the biggest 705

[TG]

I want a flying job that pays me for my decisions making, not for my time.

Interesting concept - any suggestions as how that would be evaluated and quantified? Without some way to measure it, it would be very difficult to decide how much to pay for it.

You are right then when you think of the experience (Associated with reputation) Someone can bring, it's a way to evaluate it.

I knew a guy with another concept. He would says "I'm paid for my time in the Sim!"

[North Shore]

I fly for free.

I get paid to spend X days a year in a crew room, and Y days a year away from doing things that I like with my family and friends. (Gotta admit though, some days away from the chaos of home is good!)


To the topic: YES! Post pay. None of this 'Salary according to company pay scale' stuff..

[IKEA_Monkey]

Fellas!

Per diems vs Compensation? WHO CARES! POST IT IN THE JOB AD
Pay commensurate with experience? WHO CARES! POST IT IN THE JOB AD
"Competative" and "Industry Leading" Pay? WHO CARES! POST IT IN THE JOB AD

Been in the industry for over 20 years and around the block a few times! This isn't post 9/11 where you had to dig shitters and take out the owners trash!! They need us now more than ever!

This forum has been crucial for our careers but why? It's because of this amazing COMMUNITY of PILOTS helping each other out! But what has AVCANADA done to promote the profession?! TWO DECADES of steady ad revenue! Website still looks as it did back in '01, with the same shitty job ads! Time to give back to those that make this forum so great!

IF EMPLOYERS WANT TO LIST ON AVCANADA THEY NEED TO POST THEIR PAY!

AVCANADA DO YOUR PART TO PROMOTE PILOT PAY AND THE PROFESSION!

[link821]

Fellas!

Per diems vs Compensation? WHO CARES! POST IT IN THE JOB AD
Pay commensurate with experience? WHO CARES! POST IT IN THE JOB AD
"Competative" and "Industry Leading" Pay? WHO CARES! POST IT IN THE JOB AD

Been in the industry for over 20 years and around the block a few times! This isn't post 9/11 where you had to dig shitters and take out the owners trash!! They need us now more than ever!

This forum has been crucial for our careers but why? It's because of this amazing COMMUNITY of PILOTS helping each other out! But what has AVCANADA done to promote the profession?! TWO DECADES of steady ad revenue! Website still looks as it did back in '01, with the same shitty job ads! Time to give back to those that make this forum so great!

IF EMPLOYERS WANT TO LIST ON AVCANADA THEY NEED TO POST THEIR PAY!

AVCANADA DO YOUR PART TO PROMOTE PILOT PAY AND THE PROFESSION!

+1000

[mmm..bacon]

Seems that our pleas have not fallen upon deaf ears..

viewtopic.php?t=157156

Holy sheep sh!t $130K to fly a -200 with paid rotations and matched RRSP?! Why would a person ever go to FlAirWestJazEnc?

[digits_]

Seems that our pleas have not fallen upon deaf ears..

viewtopic.php?t=157156

Holy sheep sh!t $130K to fly a -200 with paid rotations and matched RRSP?!

Great salary!

Why would a person ever go to FlAirWestJazEnc?

It used to be industry standard in Manitoba to have a 24/7 standby system for medevac flights. No shifts or anything. That's what chased a lot of pilots away in the past.

Not sure what the current situation is, but I think it might have something to do with that.

[mmm..bacon]

Ah, the 'old' rolling 14 hour duty, 10 hour reset regardless of time of day..yeah, I could see that wearing on people..

[Loon-A-Tic]

They have "convientley" omitted the names of their three bases as well, that could prove to be interesting and expensive for housing.