Why does the boss say things like this? On payroll, half your pilots are paid FO wages. If you only hire captains why don’t you only pay for captains. Is this supposed to be some sort of pep talk to motivate your pilots? “You are all captains”***in my mind but not on payroll.

I see this trend where employers post job ads for a position, but then at the interview they are disappointed if you don’t have higher credentials than what’s posted. They want the RN to work for RPN wages. The Teacher to work for EA wages, the Masters grad to work for college level wages.

If you only hire captains, only pay for captains.

I have always understood it to mean that we "only hire future captains, so your attitude and professionalism should reflect that". I've used it in interviews as encouragement "your experience is right, your attitude is right and as soon as your experience on the aircraft warrant it, you'll be a captain here"

This may fly in the face of someone with a victim's mentality, but it's not my job to support that narrative.

I'm my experience this is usually a DFO/CP saying that they want people who think like a captain. Takes responsibility. Someone who is upgradable. There are a lot of career FOs out there

Back when I hired pilots for a 703 multi crew/multi turbine operation, I only wanted to hire FOs who would be future captains. Having a pilot who had no interest in upgrade not only was a problem because they wouldn’t upgrade, but also because their time spent in the right seat would have been better used by a different candidate who would have been upgradeable with similar experience. So yes, you were being hired as an FO, but depending on the phase of the ups and downs of this industry, that might not be for long, so we tried to hire people with the right attitude and aptitude, even if their experience wasn’t quite there yet.

How there are pilots who actively pass on upgrades, other than for purely scheduling reasons, I will never understand.

Employers who actively lock employees in the right seat, after having guaranteed the ability to upgrade are on par with pilots who fail to honour their training and make a lateral move for pennies on the dollar.

"We only hire captains, but you'll work and get paid as an FO, and we won't upgrade you if a type rated captain walks trough the door instead."
[...]
"Wait, why are you leaving?"

digits_ wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:59 am "We only hire captains, but you'll work and get paid as an FO, and we won't upgrade you if a type rated captain walks trough the door instead."
[...]
"Wait, why are you leaving?"

Unless I knew the type rated captain personally, I would be hesitant (especially the way the industry is moving) to hire a type rated captain, over upgrading an FO that I know and trust. If the Capt is making a lateral move, when there are lots of opportunities for advancement, there would have to be some compelling reason to believe that they weren’t already blacklisted by all of the reputable (and most of the disreputable) companies out there! I know the money saved on training is valuable, but if s/he just ends up causing me nothing but headaches, it outweighs the financial advantage.

schnitzel2k3 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:57 am How there are pilots who actively pass on upgrades, other than for purely scheduling reasons, I will never understand.

Employers who actively lock employees in the right seat, after having guaranteed the ability to upgrade are on par with pilots who fail to honour their training and make a lateral move for pennies on the dollar.

You'd be very surprised how many are still out there and they aren't well paid FO's like at AC/WJ. I've seen some who won't write both ATPL exams so they can say they aren't qualified to bid on a position when their workers recommend them. I've also seen captains who choose not to/be bothered to get their ATPLs even though it's a 15K pay bump. Clearly they are financed from elsewhere.

I've offered my longest with me employee many promotions.

He hasn't had any interest in taking them.

Likes his job, life, and pay, as it is.

We all make personal choices, and nobody else has to approve of them.

schnitzel2k3 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:57 am How there are pilots who actively pass on upgrades, other than for purely scheduling reasons, I will never understand...

Some people are not born to lead and many are reluctant to take on the responsibility.

There are many reasons some pilots never upgrade: (in no particular order)

1. Scheduling / lifestyle (like you said).
Lots of people commute, have young children and a balance between careers (spouse and theirs). Having a poor schedule usually means that you rely on your partner to take care of the kids and that could strain a relationship pretty quickly. The money you make "extra" does not substitute for an absent parent.

2. Don't have the leadership / decision-making skills or the right attitude to be a captain
Some people lack the required skills to be a leader and as a result are not good at making the right decisions. Some lack the experience, technical or flying skills to be in that left seat.

3. Love the aircraft / routes they fly
I guess this would be more common flying for major airlines. If you love the aircraft / layovers you're on as an F/O but would have to "downgrade" equipment to hold that left seat, some may be reluctant to do so. Maybe those ZRH layovers are much better than flying red-eyes from YEG to YYZ.

4. Can't bothered with management / pay
This is not a very common one, but I have talked to a few pilots that said they can't be bothered to put up with "management issues". Some have said the extra money they get in the left seat doesn't warrant the headaches of having to justify yourself to someone every time you make an unpopular decision.

Anyway, these are just some of my guesses. Everyone is different. Personally I need a balance in life, so I see nothing wrong with being an F/O if you can live within your means, but I would not want to be right seat for the rest of my career. I think every professional pilot should strive for that left seat. It's a matter of pride.

What I find sad is some people need that upgrade because they're the sole breadwinner in the family or are in severe student loan or other debts. That puts extra pressure on some, that my not be ready for that command (just yet).