Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

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RatherBeFlying
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by RatherBeFlying »

Wouldn't surprise me if the pilots were asking for signatures in their logbooks.
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PA32pilot
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by PA32pilot »

Had lots of time to squak 7500 if hijacked.
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by PilotDAR »

Had lots of time to squak 7500 if hijacked.
I can just imagine inside ATC: "Hey, there's 7500 squawk! Hmmm, it's going 100 knots?"
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digits_
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by digits_ »

PilotDAR wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:37 am
Had lots of time to squak 7500 if hijacked.
I can just imagine inside ATC: "Hey, there's 7500 squawk! Hmmm, it's going 100 knots?"
"Ah well, it's over the bush. Might as well shoot it down, better safe than sorry! Wouldn't want it to reach Sioux Lookout City."
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7ECA
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by 7ECA »

Rumour has it, or rather it's being reported that one (or both) of the pilots was advertising chisel charters in this aircraft at some point. Apparently the owner was also the girl friend of one of the pilots on board the Cherrytree's last ride.

Needless to say, chisel charters for time building plus hauling two convicts around in absolutely not VFR WX was just asking for trouble.
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karmutzen
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by karmutzen »

Everybody was transporting passengers and freight with their private aircraft and private licenses during the fall floods in BC. And there is provision for some compensation in CARS (costs offset), conditions ignored by both the pilots and the regulators. Ratting out a fellow pilot, compiling evidence against them, has no place in my aviation world. Reeks of hypocrisy. We all built hours to start our careers somehow.
Every airline in the world carries some passengers that have committed some crime, and some of which have been convicted.
We don't know why the airplane crashed. Pilot decision to fly that route based on the information at hand, in an aircraft he was very familiar with and with a copilot. Flat ground, hold a heading and altitude for a few hours, VFR at both ends. Dark or not shouldn't make a difference.

None of us are saints.
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by photofly »

karmutzen wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:13 pm Everybody was transporting passengers and freight with their private aircraft and private licenses during the fall floods in BC. And there is provision for some compensation in CARS (costs offset), conditions ignored by both the pilots and the regulators. Ratting out a fellow pilot, compiling evidence against them, has no place in my aviation world. Reeks of hypocrisy. We all built hours to start our careers somehow.
Every airline in the world carries some passengers that have committed some crime, and some of which have been convicted.
We don't know why the airplane crashed. Pilot decision to fly that route based on the information at hand, in an aircraft he was very familiar with and with a copilot. Flat ground, hold a heading and altitude for a few hours, VFR at both ends. Dark or not shouldn't make a difference.

None of us are saints.
Is it ok to fly overweight, too? Just curious.
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AirFrame
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by AirFrame »

karmutzen wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:13 pm Everybody was transporting passengers and freight with their private aircraft and private licenses during the fall floods in BC.
None of whom received compensation in contravention of any regulations. They were *volunteer* flights.
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cncpc
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by cncpc »

7ECA wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 5:46 pm Rumour has it, or rather it's being reported that one (or both) of the pilots was advertising chisel charters in this aircraft at some point. Apparently the owner was also the girl friend of one of the pilots on board the Cherrytree's last ride.

Needless to say, chisel charters for time building plus hauling two convicts around in absolutely not VFR WX was just asking for trouble.
Vancouver Sun two days ago. Kim Bolan.

I don't believe either of them were convicts, but hundreds of thousands of people with convictions fly commercial every day, and as far as I know, this is the first crash. There are two issues. Why did it crash? That has to do with who the pilots were, not the passengers. I can't remember what the other issue is.

I used to haul convicts around. Never crashed. I never allowed them to be cuffed on the plane either. Sheriff's insisted on restraints, though, after an episode in an Islander bringing some gandydancer from the jail in Victoria over to Abbotsford. Not cuffed, grabbed a fire extinguisher, and did some harm to the pilot, who was sitting right in front of him.

Some guy dropped the dime on this operation to TC some time before and nothing was done.
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by 7ECA »

cncpc wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 4:21 pm Vancouver Sun two days ago. Kim Bolan.

I don't believe either of them were convicts, but hundreds of thousands of people with convictions fly commercial every day, and as far as I know, this is the first crash. There are two issues. Why did it crash? That has to do with who the pilots were, not the passengers. I can't remember what the other issue is.

I used to haul convicts around. Never crashed. I never allowed them to be cuffed on the plane either. Sheriff's insisted on restraints, though, after an episode in an Islander bringing some gandydancer from the jail in Victoria over to Abbotsford. Not cuffed, grabbed a fire extinguisher, and did some harm to the pilot, who was sitting right in front of him.

Some guy dropped the dime on this operation to TC some time before and nothing was done.
I'm not suggesting the pilots were convicts, to the best of my knowledge they aren't. But, the two passengers absolutely are in addition to being wanted fugitives. It's one thing to haul around convicts for transfers, with proper precautions and what not - a whole other story to hauling fugitives in sketchy conditions...

I recall the story of the transfer up around Rupert how ever many years back in an Otter, where the convict evidently wasn't a fan of the service and exited mid-flight.

Sadly, not surprising knowing TC; although they may be having to recheck their files when the TSB comes knocking.
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by pelmet »

7ECA wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 5:46 pm Rumour has it, or rather it's being reported that one (or both) of the pilots was advertising chisel charters in this aircraft at some point. Apparently the owner was also the girl friend of one of the pilots on board the Cherrytree's last ride.

Needless to say, chisel charters for time building plus hauling two convicts around in absolutely not VFR WX was just asking for trouble.
Plane that crashed with fugitives was overweight, heading for Toronto: Witness

© Provided by The Canadian Press

VANCOUVER — A woman who knew the pilot of a fatal flight that killed two men wanted in separate murder plots says he told her he was heading for Toronto and was concerned about the plane's weight.

The woman, who asked not to be identified because she was afraid for her safety, said she spoke with pilot Abhinav Handa at the Boundary Bay Airport in Delta, B.C., before his plane took off on the cross-country trip in late April.

Handa told her he was carrying three passengers and had been planning the journey for at least a week, she said, although he only confirmed the date of the flight the day before departure.

The pilot expressed concern the plane was too heavy, but the woman said she didn't know if any luggage or cargo was removed.

"They were a little overloaded and they were trying to reduce their weight," the woman told The Canadian Press.

The woman did not see the three passengers and she said she and Handa also talked about weather conditions.

Police have said Handa, Hankun Hong, Gene Lahrkamp and Duncan Bailey died in the crash near Sioux Lookout, Ont.

The Combined Forces Special Enforcement Unit, which is British Columbia's anti-gang unit, has identified Lahrkamp as one of two men wanted in Thailand for murdering another man with links to B.C. gangs.

A man with the same name and age as Bailey was wanted by police for breaching bail conditions related to a separate murder plot in B.C.

The Piper Cherokee that crashed was travelling between Dryden, Ont., and Marathon, Ont., however the aircraft was registered in B.C. The woman, who had some knowledge of aviation, said a plane that small would have made several fuel stops en route to Toronto.

She could not confirm exactly which day she saw Handa. Another man at the airport said he did not want to be interviewed but he said he also saw Handa on the same day as the woman, although he could not confirm the date either.

Nav Canada, which operates flight information centres across the country, referred questions about the flight's itinerary to the Transportation Safety Board.

The board referred questions to the Boundary Bay Airport, which said it could not release the information.

The safety board, which is investigating the crash, has said a cause has not yet been determined. It said Thursday it will share an update "shortly."

Online flight tracking site FlightAware shows a gap in flight records for the plane between British Columbia and Alberta.

The site shows the plane arrived at the Boundary Bay Airport at 7:44 p.m. on April 23. The next entry shows the plane flew between Claresholm, Alta., and Shaunavon, Sask., on April 28 before continuing east. The final entry tracks its path from Dryden, Ont., to the crash site near Sioux Lookout, Ont., on April 29.

Hong and Handa do not appear in criminal records, however the federal aviation regulator said Handa was not certified to offer charter flights.

Transport Canada says neither Handa nor a company to which he was linked, called A&T Flights, held a valid Air Operator Certificate.

The certificate is one of several requirements for commercial pilots offering charters, tours and other services to paying customers, the agency said.

A public aircraft registry also lists the plane that crashed as being registered for private, rather than commercial use.

"Abhinav" is listed as the contact for A&T Flights Inc., on the company's Instagram page.

Hong is tagged in a video on A&T Flights page, advertising its services.

"Pilots having fun renting plane and flying all over beautiful British Columbia," the post on April 8 says.

Accounts for both Handa and Hong follow the A&T Flights Instagram page.
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by photofly »

pelmet wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 6:21 am
Plane that crashed with fugitives was overweight, heading for Toronto: Witness
In other news today, scientists have also determined the sun rises in the east. And we have a breaking report from our nature correspondent about the recent discovery of bear poo in the nearby woods.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by karmutzen »

Overweight has as much relevance as whether or not the news reporter writing it was overweight. Did not cause the crash. In fact that they got to Ontario proves they were handling the weight competently. More troubling is their ground track and the implications to flight conditions.

But how much overweight for us pilots to argue about? An optimistic empty weight for a 140 is 1300, gross is 2150. 4 guys and gear at 190 each is 760. Leaves 90 lbs for fuel. So could be done legal in one hour hops. Add extra fuel for longer legs and providing you could take off and climb (which they did, especially through BC and Alberta) and you'd be back under gross after some fuel burn off.

They could have just left the second pilot behind if Jimminy Cricket was beaking at them about weight.
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by photofly »

karmutzen wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 10:53 am4 guys and gear at 190 each is 760
You're having a laugh, aren't you?
They could have just left the second pilot behind if Jimminy Cricket was beaking at them about weight.
If only they'd been smart enough to do that then they'd have saved at least one person's life.
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by PilotDAR »

In fact that they got to Ontario proves they were handling the weight competently.
It just means that the bad thing hadn't happened yet. If they were overweight, being out of C of G limits was also possible, and that condition sometimes is not apparent until lost control cannot be regained.
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by JasonE »

My 140 was an early one with no toe brakes and lighter than most with 910 lbs useful. Some I've seen as low as 750 useful.
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by Bede »

Just found out that this plane was owned by my wife's best friend's sister. Her fiancé was the pilot. He was running a chisel charter operation.

Apparently quite the sordid affair straight from the pages of a thriller novel. Details when I get them...
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by Mike Flynn »

What is the latest news on this story.
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by broken_slinky »

Looks like some freshly released updates. Nothing really new or surprising related to the flight itself. Some interesting information about the passengers though.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/plane-crash-k ... 53661.html

https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repo ... c0027.html
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Re: Cherokee 140 near Sioux Lookout

Post by golden hawk »

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