Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
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Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
I've heard of this happenening to various people at various airlines in the past. Chief pilot talks to HR at prospective new company and asks them to delay or even not hire a pilot because they are short and can't afford to lose them, and the other airlne agrees to CPs request. I'm concerned this is happening to me now. Has this happened to anyone here? How do you deal with it?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
Tough situation. Seems like you should get out of your current job asap. What kind of delay are you talking about?
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
I'd quit and sue for constructive dismissal. You'll find another quick.
I would discuss with an employment lawyer first. If you do can you post here? I have no idea the legalities if that and would be interested to know.
I would discuss with an employment lawyer first. If you do can you post here? I have no idea the legalities if that and would be interested to know.
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
Why do you assume this is happening to you now?
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Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
That's a first I've heard of this type. There are all sorts of operations out there doing different things. Some companies will flat out not even reference.
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
I think the OP changed his post. Initially he said that it happened to him, but I could be wrong.
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Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
The title does say "hiring me" so that assumption is probably correct. Usually hiring is done confidentially if you ask it of those doing the hiring. If it ended up not being so, you might question if you want to be hired.
I'm not sure what's more depressing: That everyone has a price, or how low the price always is.
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
This is common practice among Canadian Regionals. For years they have always tried to draw no more than 1-2 people from a certain 703/704 per class, very understandable.
My best advice to you, roll with the punches and continue to do a good job at your present employer. The call will come, especially if the regionals get short staffed, they will eventually disregard what that chief pilot asked in a second if they struggle to fill a class.
What you don’t want to do is quit as a previous poster suggested. If the airline your waiting on finds out you quit or changed companies while knowing you’re in the hiring process for them it would not reflect well on you. Especially if your interview/testing expires before a start date and you have to explain that to them in another interview.
My best advice to you, roll with the punches and continue to do a good job at your present employer. The call will come, especially if the regionals get short staffed, they will eventually disregard what that chief pilot asked in a second if they struggle to fill a class.
What you don’t want to do is quit as a previous poster suggested. If the airline your waiting on finds out you quit or changed companies while knowing you’re in the hiring process for them it would not reflect well on you. Especially if your interview/testing expires before a start date and you have to explain that to them in another interview.
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Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
Then if you have no idea of the legalities involved, why would you give that kind of serious advice in your first sentence?
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
Perhaps. But does it reflect well on the airline and the future ex-employer if they make backroom deals like that? You're not some piece of cattle or a multi million dollar hockey player to be sold at their whim.YC87DRVR wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 10:22 am If the airline your waiting on finds out you quit or changed companies while knowing you’re in the hiring process for them it would not reflect well on you. Especially if your interview/testing expires before a start date and you have to explain that to them in another interview.
An employer has the right to give or refuse to give a reference. But if he's actively trying to block your progress, that's a seriously shitty move. And if the hiring airline goes along with it, well, ... I'd look at other options to be honest. The airline should be talking to you, you should be talking to your employer if you want to make a deal. The airline and the employer should *NOT* be negotiating behind your back. Assuming that's what actually happened, the initial post is a bit vague on that.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
It’s not that they’re negotiating behind your back, or “back room deals”.digits_ wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 10:32 amPerhaps. But does it reflect well on the airline and the future ex-employer if they make backroom deals like that? You're not some piece of cattle or a multi million dollar hockey player to be sold at their whim.YC87DRVR wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 10:22 am If the airline your waiting on finds out you quit or changed companies while knowing you’re in the hiring process for them it would not reflect well on you. Especially if your interview/testing expires before a start date and you have to explain that to them in another interview.
An employer has the right to give or refuse to give a reference. But if he's actively trying to block your progress, that's a seriously shitty move. And if the hiring airline goes along with it, well, ... I'd look at other options to be honest. The airline should be talking to you, you should be talking to your employer if you want to make a deal. The airline and the employer should *NOT* be negotiating behind your back. Assuming that's what actually happened, the initial post is a bit vague on that.
These deals have been made long before any specific Pilot is involved. It’s not personal and not behind someone’s back. It’s no more than the Chief Pilot saying I’ll work with you and take time out my day to give you references of my employees as long as you agree to not completely screw me in my ability to staff my airplanes.
These airlines could clear out an entire 703/704 carrier or their Pilot group in the span weeks. But they don’t, they want a good working relationship with the people they rely on for information about their potential new hires. Making a big deal out of the situation would only turn out poorly.
So to the original poster, don’t take it personally. It’s been happening for years and I know of several 704’s who had similar agreements in place over the years. Most of the people hired in the past 4-5 years by a regional have been subject to the same fate, they just didn’t know it.
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
You didn't read carefully. In the first paragraph, I said what I would do. The second paragraph I provide my advice to seek legal counsel.rookiepilot wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 10:26 amThen if you have no idea of the legalities involved, why would you give that kind of serious advice in your first sentence?
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
Still disgusting. And what you describe would be a prime example of a back room deal.YC87DRVR wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 11:50 amIt’s not that they’re negotiating behind your back, or “back room deals”.digits_ wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 10:32 amPerhaps. But does it reflect well on the airline and the future ex-employer if they make backroom deals like that? You're not some piece of cattle or a multi million dollar hockey player to be sold at their whim.YC87DRVR wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 10:22 am If the airline your waiting on finds out you quit or changed companies while knowing you’re in the hiring process for them it would not reflect well on you. Especially if your interview/testing expires before a start date and you have to explain that to them in another interview.
An employer has the right to give or refuse to give a reference. But if he's actively trying to block your progress, that's a seriously shitty move. And if the hiring airline goes along with it, well, ... I'd look at other options to be honest. The airline should be talking to you, you should be talking to your employer if you want to make a deal. The airline and the employer should *NOT* be negotiating behind your back. Assuming that's what actually happened, the initial post is a bit vague on that.
These deals have been made long before any specific Pilot is involved. It’s not personal and not behind someone’s back. It’s no more than the Chief Pilot saying I’ll work with you and take time out my day to give you references of my employees as long as you agree to not completely screw me in my ability to staff my airplanes.
These airlines could clear out an entire 703/704 carrier or their Pilot group in the span weeks. But they don’t, they want a good working relationship with the people they rely on for information about their potential new hires. Making a big deal out of the situation would only turn out poorly.
So to the original poster, don’t take it personally. It’s been happening for years and I know of several 704’s who had similar agreements in place over the years. Most of the people hired in the past 4-5 years by a regional have been subject to the same fate, they just didn’t know it.
Employers are free to offer whatever they want to employees, if you don't like it, don't take it. Might not be a great situation, but so be it. But if an employer then takes away the only 'weapon' an employee has to improve his situation? That's just completely messed up.
This is a way bigger issue than bonds, and deservers more publicity if it is as widespread as you claim. I hope companies like that never find another pilot again.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
I've heard rumors of this happening at my company in the past. Apart from that my CP told me new company "reassured" him they would space out the hiring from my company. He didn't say he asked or requested anything, so I can only assume.
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Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
Seems like a ground school or two delay. So a few months? Not the worst, but frustrating.
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
Well, once you have your start date, take a 2 month vacation. You can even spin it you'll use the time to study for your new job!oakmoss1889 wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 2:50 pmSeems like a ground school or two delay. So a few months? Not the worst, but frustrating.
And if you are absolutely sure they did something fishy, just quit on the spot. Bonus points if the plane is somewhere remotely

It might go against the common wisdom of not blowing up bridges, but at some point you've got to say enough is enough.
Good luck though! Would love to find out how it all ends!
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
I've heard rumours of this happening over the last five or so years. *If* it is true - it stinks.
Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two!
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Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
Great topic!
I am sure a lawyer would love to take money to argue whether these operators meet the definition of a cartel.
I am sure a lawyer would love to take money to argue whether these operators meet the definition of a cartel.
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Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
It's the same concept as running a sustainable fishery. "Don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs."
The regionals don't want to wipe out the breeding pool of future pilots, and it makes sense for them to maintain good relations with the smaller carriers that they source their pilots from.
My guess is that the CP at the original poster's current employer probably first asked the pilot if he would hang on for a little while to let the CP find and train a replacement for him or her, and the pilot said 'no'. So you can't blame the CP for doing his/her best to keep the operation running.
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
Lots of assumptions. But if it's true...PanEuropean wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 4:06 pm
My guess is that the CP at the original poster's current employer probably first asked the pilot if he would hang on for a little while to let the CP find and train a replacement for him or her, and the pilot said 'no'. So you can't blame the CP for doing his/her best to keep the operation running.
Great attitude to have as a company. You ask for a favor from someone, they say no, so you force them to do it anyway.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
Why spread rumours about this maybe being a thing? Let me help you: it is most definitely a thing. Sometimes some airline will realize they have six or eight pilots from the same company in an initial course and call their CP to apologize and ask if they’re going to survive. Sometimes a pile of reference calls will come from the same place and a CP will ask if they can pump the brakes a little to keep from going under.
The responsible way forward is probably an agreement between the two companies to recognize the talent they foster and interview at the bigger shop before the candidate is really ready for the move. That way the candidate can progress at their current employer, who also has some idea of a timeline to train their replacement.
The responsible way forward is probably an agreement between the two companies to recognize the talent they foster and interview at the bigger shop before the candidate is really ready for the move. That way the candidate can progress at their current employer, who also has some idea of a timeline to train their replacement.
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
The more appropriate conversation would be 'what the hell did you do to make 8 guys quit at the same time??"lownslow wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 6:16 pm Why spread rumours about this maybe being a thing? Let me help you: it is most definitely a thing. Sometimes some airline will realize they have six or eight pilots from the same company in an initial course and call their CP to apologize and ask if they’re going to survive. Sometimes a pile of reference calls will come from the same place and a CP will ask if they can pump the brakes a little to keep from going under.
I've witnessed 3 mass exoduses (exodi?) like that. There was always a good reason.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
Alrigh, whatever you say…..digits_ wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 12:03 pmStill disgusting. And what you describe would be a prime example of a back room deal.YC87DRVR wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 11:50 amIt’s not that they’re negotiating behind your back, or “back room deals”.digits_ wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 10:32 am
Perhaps. But does it reflect well on the airline and the future ex-employer if they make backroom deals like that? You're not some piece of cattle or a multi million dollar hockey player to be sold at their whim.
An employer has the right to give or refuse to give a reference. But if he's actively trying to block your progress, that's a seriously shitty move. And if the hiring airline goes along with it, well, ... I'd look at other options to be honest. The airline should be talking to you, you should be talking to your employer if you want to make a deal. The airline and the employer should *NOT* be negotiating behind your back. Assuming that's what actually happened, the initial post is a bit vague on that.
These deals have been made long before any specific Pilot is involved. It’s not personal and not behind someone’s back. It’s no more than the Chief Pilot saying I’ll work with you and take time out my day to give you references of my employees as long as you agree to not completely screw me in my ability to staff my airplanes.
These airlines could clear out an entire 703/704 carrier or their Pilot group in the span weeks. But they don’t, they want a good working relationship with the people they rely on for information about their potential new hires. Making a big deal out of the situation would only turn out poorly.
So to the original poster, don’t take it personally. It’s been happening for years and I know of several 704’s who had similar agreements in place over the years. Most of the people hired in the past 4-5 years by a regional have been subject to the same fate, they just didn’t know it.
Employers are free to offer whatever they want to employees, if you don't like it, don't take it. Might not be a great situation, but so be it. But if an employer then takes away the only 'weapon' an employee has to improve his situation? That's just completely messed up.
This is a way bigger issue than bonds, and deservers more publicity if it is as widespread as you claim. I hope companies like that never find another pilot again.
I see from your posts you have or had an interview with AC. I know first had they have had this deal in place for years. (Along with Jazz, Westjet and many more). If you’re so disgusted by it make sure to tell them in your interview those kind of deals bother you and you wish not to be a part of it.
Re: Chief Pilot asked another airline to delay hiring me due to shortage?
2018 saw the hiring gates at the regionals wide open. I can’t speak for management at other companies but my own policy was to keep our pilots moving forward regardless of their own career agendas. 703s are transitory positions for most, I get it, just throw me a bone and help keep me in the loop when you plan to leave so I can have a stream of replacements coming in. No hard feelings over honesty.
I was actually part of a mass exodus at my first instructing job. A good 80% of the staff all put in our notice the same morning without anyone having pre-planned it that way. It was just all of us moving on with tragic timing for the school.