So everyone is leaving?

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
WellThatAgedWell
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:38 am

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by WellThatAgedWell »

Big corporations in Canada would rather email blast you every month with woke virtue signalling deflecting from real issues. Why do they send emails about “not assuming pronoun’s”, “diversity” and “all female flight crews” when inflation is through the roof. I’m sure all the women in Canadian aviation would rather a raise that keeps up with their American counterparts. Instead the company will schedule a flight with all women so they can post it to instagram and gather likes.

Are women not attracted to aviation because of their parts? Or are women not attracted to aviation because they look at the pay, the schedule, the barriers to entry (that are nothing to do with being a woman) and industry stability etc. Maybe other careers are just way more attractive than working overnights as an AME. Maybe careers where you are not away from home for days at a time are more attractive. Maybe a career where you don’t have to “do your time” in another province or territory is more attractive.

Next time we see a Facebook post with all women flight crew we can comment about how they are the lowest paid crew in North America. Why don’t you pay them more? You want more women in aviation, make the job more attractive for everyone.

So it’s no surprise people want out. Corporation’s are either out of touch, or it’s intentional. Who knows.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Two years of posts that aged like a fine cheddar.
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by photofly »

WellThatAgedWell wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:01 am
Next time we see a Facebook post with all women flight crew we can comment about how they are the lowest paid crew in North America. Why don’t you pay them more? You want more women in aviation, make the job more attractive for everyone.
On the contrary: it's well known that women are in the majority in low paying jobs. If you want more women pilots, slash pay rates to those of PSWs, restaurant wait staff or domestic workers. Within 3 years, 80% of pilots will be female.

The same applies to jobs with poor schedules and conditions: majority female-held. Introduce zero-hours contracts, split shifts and remove benefits from airline pilot positions and the proportion of women will rise rapidly.

I'm keen to give it a try. Who's with me?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by photofly on Thu May 19, 2022 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4403
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by rookiepilot »

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by photofly »

rookiepilot wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:14 am Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.
It's all that pushbutton flying ... too little to do on the flight deck, and too much time.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Bug_Stomper_01
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1345
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:22 am

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

rookiepilot wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:14 am My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.
Lol the post is literally regarding everyone leaving, which is being discussed 😂
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5930
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by digits_ »

rookiepilot wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:14 am My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.
Don't think of it as whining. Think of it as discussing negative aspects of a job, in order to convince more people to leave the industry, therefore hopefully improving conditions for the people who stay behind.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Bug_Stomper_01
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1345
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:22 am

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

digits_ wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:34 am
rookiepilot wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:14 am My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.
Don't think of it as whining. Think of it as discussing negative aspects of a job, in order to convince more people to leave the industry, therefore hopefully improving conditions for the people who stay behind.
Culling the herd in Canada never works, there’s always bottom feeders that crawl out from wherever to work for nothing.
---------- ADS -----------
 
qwe221sd
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:44 am

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by qwe221sd »

WellThatAgedWell wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:40 pm "everyone" is like ten people. Nice.
qwe221sd wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:36 pm why leave? Hiring is going up.
Grass is green on the other side!
Problem is right of work except for some countries accept expat but mostly in asia and they are still down..
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4403
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by rookiepilot »

digits_ wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:34 am
rookiepilot wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:14 am My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.
Don't think of it as whining. Think of it as discussing negative aspects of a job, in order to convince more people to leave the industry, therefore hopefully improving conditions for the people who stay behind.
Ah. Strategy....
---------- ADS -----------
 
ICUP
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:43 pm

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by ICUP »

rookiepilot wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:14 am My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.
Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter :-)

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.
---------- ADS -----------
 
vanislepilot
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:01 pm

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by vanislepilot »

ICUP wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 9:23 am
rookiepilot wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:14 am My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.
Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter :-)

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

I heavily agree with this and feel for you bro. Imagine, the top airlines everyone has dreamed of flying for force you into the most expensive cities in this country and don't have much flexibility for living and on top of it don't pay for a comfortable lifestyle. Do you know why people want to leave? Because the average house in Los Angeles cost the same as Orillia Ontario (This is not even an exaggeration) and even working for AC won't get you that house for many years. This country has changed so much in even just the past 5 years, heck even the past 2. People are choosing whether to have babies or save for a downpayment on some shack. This is not sustainable. Young people in all industries are getting screwed here, I think when the Americans inevitably open up for Canadian pilots, the REAL pilot shortage will be come.
---------- ADS -----------
 
vanislepilot
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:01 pm

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by vanislepilot »

702pipeliner wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:03 pm Like everyone in aviation. It's mostly all talk no action. Lots of people talk about leaving but none really have the means to leave unless you have a duel citizenship or married into another nationality.

People keep bickering about how awful aviation is. Was the same 20 years ago and will be the same 20 from now.

Even those of us with options internationally havnt jumped the gun and moved down to the usa/australia/Europe.
I don't think the issue is entirely just aviation, a lot of it is how hard the government has been screwing its citizens left and right making it impossible to afford a decent lifestyle here. That even when you make it to a major you still are living like a student.

*Oh and the solution is not to live in Regina if Toronto is expensive, you will inevitably have to commute there on your own dime and bunk with 15 other poor chaps like you on Dixon road.
---------- ADS -----------
 
qwe221sd
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:44 am

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by qwe221sd »

ICUP wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 9:23 am
rookiepilot wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:14 am My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.
Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter :-)

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.
The point is why people still pay a bunch of money to flight school and pursue pilot career?
---------- ADS -----------
 
vanislepilot
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:01 pm

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by vanislepilot »

qwe221sd wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 9:57 am
ICUP wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 9:23 am
rookiepilot wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:14 am


The point is why people still pay a bunch of money to flight school and pursue pilot career?
Because it's still a dream for many, like it was for you and me. It beats being an accountant, working a MF 9-5, get lots of time off and travel privileges. It's a lot of fun being able to fly for work and many more will chase thay dream
---------- ADS -----------
 
Bug_Stomper_01
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1345
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:22 am

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

ICUP wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 9:23 am
rookiepilot wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:14 am My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.
Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter :-)

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

Well written and sadly operators don’t care, the “I did it so you should too” attitude is everywhere in Canada. Look at the salaries from now compared to 25 years ago. They have gone down! It doesn’t matter what we do operators will keep shovelling out their crap jobs with crap wages as long as they keep finding fresh meat from wherever. It’ll never improve in Canada it’ll just dwindle down to despair to drive up rates 5% from the year before last and the zombies still doing this will get a small glimmer of hope and keep carrying on in misery. A wise man once told me when I was in college “it takes one with the sickness to ruin it for everyone else” I didn’t understand then, I CERTAINLY do now!
---------- ADS -----------
 
PitchLink
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 397
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:47 am

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by PitchLink »

Kick over a garbage can fifty 100 hour wonders will come scurrying out looking for a job….
---------- ADS -----------
 
qwe221sd
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:44 am

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by qwe221sd »

vanislepilot wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:07 am
qwe221sd wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 9:57 am
ICUP wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 9:23 am

Because it's still a dream for many, like it was for you and me. It beats being an accountant, working a MF 9-5, get lots of time off and travel privileges. It's a lot of fun being able to fly for work and many more will chase thay dream
Exactly, so operator don't need to worry about the human resource , plenty of dreaming guys line up from the door.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Bug_Stomper_01
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1345
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:22 am

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

qwe221sd wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:40 am
vanislepilot wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:07 am
qwe221sd wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 9:57 am
Exactly, so operator don't need to worry about the human resource , plenty of dreaming guys line up from the door.




🤮
---------- ADS -----------
 
lownslow
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1709
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 am

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by lownslow »

WellThatAgedWell wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:40 pm "everyone" is like ten people. Nice.
I flew with all of them last month. I think around 80% of my pairings were with pilots who had invested significant time and money into leaving.
---------- ADS -----------
 
goingmissed
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:06 am

Re: So everyone is leaving?

Post by goingmissed »

rookiepilot wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:14 am My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.
There are too many people who think that doctors and epidemiologists are out to kill them, that non-Christian religions are the reason for our world problems, and that the left is an identifiable group with a single mindset trying to take all of their "hard earned" money.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”