So everyone is leaving?

[tsgarp]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

There are too many people who think that doctors and epidemiologists are out to kill them, that non-Christian religions are the reason for our world problems, and that the left is an identifiable group with a single mindset trying to take all of their "hard earned" money.

There’s another group of people that think all the worlds problems come from white Christians, that anyone who identifies as anything other than a marxist is intractably evil and that doctors and scientists are completely immune to political influence.

[Conflicting Traffic]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

This post should be required reading for anyone considering a career in aviation.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

This post should be required reading for anyone considering a career in aviation.

There are several others very much like it in years past that have definitely been read and mostly shrugged off… the reason…. Aerosexuality and they all don’t believe it till they’re too deep in and it’s too late.

[ICUP]

Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

This post should be required reading for anyone considering a career in aviation.

There are several others very much like it in years past that have definitely been read and mostly shrugged off… the reason…. Aerosexuality and they all don’t believe it till they’re too deep in and it’s too late.

Yep. I get aroused during walk-arounds, can't help it...

[Bug_Stomper_01]

This post should be required reading for anyone considering a career in aviation.

There are several others very much like it in years past that have definitely been read and mostly shrugged off… the reason…. Aerosexuality and they all don’t believe it till they’re too deep in and it’s too late.

Yep. I get aroused during walk-arounds, can't help it...

Most do pathetically enough

[digits_]

The point is why people still pay a bunch of money to flight school and pursue pilot career?

Because they don't know the realities of the job. These threads might help change that a little bit.


Just yesterday I was talking to a neighbor who was wondering why I didn't fly for Air Canada yet. When I told him I would have to take a more than 50% pay cut to start out there, he understood.

There's a big survivor bias when people talk to 'pilots who made it' when they decide to go the pilot route or not. Flying clubs or flying schools don't invite jobless 200 hour pilots to give talks, they invite Captain XXX known in the area for YYY to give a talk. And when they say 'it might be hard at times to get started', people always think they will be the exception.


Regardless, I still think you can have a great career in Canadian aviation if you want to. I'm just not sure the airlines are part of that. But whatever you decide, make sure you know what you're getting in to when you start. It's unlikely you'll follow a career path as depicted by an FTU.


It's mind boggling how easy some people fork over 100k for flight training, without knowing the financial reality. Avcanada might have its flaws, but every new student should sign up before they can pass the PSTAR.

[rookiepilot]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

Well written, all. I wish you the best, i truly do.

If i had it easy in my career, which isn’t even aviation to be fair, I’d be a dick writing what I did, but I didn’t. Its been a good business what i do, but came with unbelievable early sacrifice, for my wife and myself.

And its never safe, never secure (my world). After 25 years, came fairly close last year to blowing up, totally broke. Many others did blow up. Better today, but who knows? Covid, Governments, made a real mess of everything.

Sometimes gotta move, all I am saying, to the field or location that pays. Canada, piss off if you won’t pay me. Loyalty— is for wives and pets, IMO. You’re a business, a contractor, gotta think like one.

And that means a hard nosed attitude where money is concerned.

[qwe221sd]

The point is why people still pay a bunch of money to flight school and pursue pilot career?

Because they don't know the realities of the job. These threads might help change that a little bit.


Just yesterday I was talking to a neighbor who was wondering why I didn't fly for Air Canada yet. When I told him I would have to take a more than 50% pay cut to start out there, he understood.

There's a big survivor bias when people talk to 'pilots who made it' when they decide to go the pilot route or not. Flying clubs or flying schools don't invite jobless 200 hour pilots to give talks, they invite Captain XXX known in the area for YYY to give a talk. And when they say 'it might be hard at times to get started', people always think they will be the exception.


Regardless, I still think you can have a great career in Canadian aviation if you want to. I'm just not sure the airlines are part of that. But whatever you decide, make sure you know what you're getting in to when you start. It's unlikely you'll follow a career path as depicted by an FTU.


It's mind boggling how easy some people fork over 100k for flight training, without knowing the financial reality. Avcanada might have its flaws, but every new student should sign up before they can pass the PSTAR.

I totally agree with your opinion. And also pilot shortage is a big lie in this generation , jobless guy is everywhere.
Don't tell me the shortage is for experienced pilot , if so that means there's gap and who fill the gap finanlly?

[ICUP]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

Well written, all. I wish you the best, i truly do.

If i had it easy in my career, which isn’t even aviation to be fair, I’d be a dick writing what I did, but I didn’t. Its been a good business what i do, but came with unbelievable early sacrifice, for my wife and myself.

And its never safe, never secure (my world). After 25 years, came fairly close last year to blowing up, totally broke. Many others did blow up. Better today, but who knows? Covid, Governments, made a real mess of everything.

Sometimes gotta move, all I am saying, to the field or location that pays. Canada, piss off if you won’t pay me. Loyalty— is for wives and pets, IMO. You’re a business, a contractor, gotta think like one.

And that means a hard nosed attitude where money is concerned.

Thanks bud, really appreciate it

The point is why people still pay a bunch of money to flight school and pursue pilot career?

Because they don't know the realities of the job. These threads might help change that a little bit.


Just yesterday I was talking to a neighbor who was wondering why I didn't fly for Air Canada yet. When I told him I would have to take a more than 50% pay cut to start out there, he understood.

There's a big survivor bias when people talk to 'pilots who made it' when they decide to go the pilot route or not. Flying clubs or flying schools don't invite jobless 200 hour pilots to give talks, they invite Captain XXX known in the area for YYY to give a talk. And when they say 'it might be hard at times to get started', people always think they will be the exception.


Regardless, I still think you can have a great career in Canadian aviation if you want to. I'm just not sure the airlines are part of that. But whatever you decide, make sure you know what you're getting in to when you start. It's unlikely you'll follow a career path as depicted by an FTU.


It's mind boggling how easy some people fork over 100k for flight training, without knowing the financial reality. Avcanada might have its flaws, but every new student should sign up before they can pass the PSTAR.

+1. FTUs are businesses, and businesses tend to “enhance” reality. I once overheard a FI giving a tour to a teen and her parents. He made it look so easy… he even pointed to a WJ 737 taxiing by and said the most atrocious lie ~ You will be flying those jets in no time!

I think that Avcanada would make people a favour if they added a pinned thread on their flight training section called something “The realities of being a pilot in Canada”. Although that might still not stop aerosexuals (Bug_stumper thanks for helping find my identity ) such us myself…

[Squaretail]

The point is why people still pay a bunch of money to flight school and pursue pilot career?

Because they don't know the realities of the job.

Or maybe they do, and still want to do it. Most pilots I know, who bitch about the aviation industry also have no experience doing other jobs. Or very limited experience. Lots of neophyte pilot resumes I see are guys and gals doing jobs I don’t envy, even though I’m sure many have better wages, schedules, or other pluses. The grass ain’t greener on the other side of the fence, or maybe it is. All that matters is what your personal path to happiness entails. A career in aviation isn’t for everyone, but it is for some. Even one might consider an aviation career elsewhere, it really depends on your point of view. I spend enough time flying around stateside to know it’s not all great down there, and I know enough expats to know that their lifestyle isn’t for me.

The point is just because one might be unhappy with your lot in life, don’t assume everyone else who’s lot you think is similar feels the same way.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

The point is why people still pay a bunch of money to flight school and pursue pilot career?

Because they don't know the realities of the job.

Or maybe they do, and still want to do it. Most pilots I know, who bitch about the aviation industry also have no experience doing other jobs. Or very limited experience. Lots of neophyte pilot resumes I see are guys and gals doing jobs I don’t envy, even though I’m sure many have better wages, schedules, or other pluses. The grass ain’t greener on the other side of the fence, or maybe it is. All that matters is what your personal path to happiness entails. A career in aviation isn’t for everyone, but it is for some. Even one might consider an aviation career elsewhere, it really depends on your point of view. I spend enough time flying around stateside to know it’s not all great down there, and I know enough expats to know that their lifestyle isn’t for me.

The point is just because one might be unhappy with your lot in life, don’t assume everyone else who’s lot you think is similar feels the same way.

The common denominator in ALL of this is low pay. Anyone who argues otherwise I’ll gladly discuss with logically and factually. Canadians are by far the lowest paid aviators in the civilized world.

[Squaretail]

Canadians are by far the lowest paid aviators in the civilized world.

No they aren’t. Maybe they are in your sector. I know I wouldn’t trade places with most (but not all) of my American counterparts. That’s not to say that there aren’t low paid pilots in Canada, but that isn’t a rule, just like it isn’t a rule that pilots uniformly make better money elsewhere.

[Ash Ketchum]

I am debating just leaving aviation altogether as my previous career (tech) was seeing 30% pay increases due to a skilled worker shortage. If only the same can happen for Canadian aviation...

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Canadians are by far the lowest paid aviators in the civilized world.

No they aren’t. Maybe they are in your sector. I know I wouldn’t trade places with most (but not all) of my American counterparts. That’s not to say that there aren’t low paid pilots in Canada, but that isn’t a rule, just like it isn’t a rule that pilots uniformly make better money elsewhere.

I’ve worked in almost every continent in the world, and I can assure you, Canadians are paid trash. Defend it all you want, I have first hand knowledge and nothing will change my mind in the decades I’ve been in this racket

[Loading...]

But would living in socialist Europe really be better than living and working here?
Real question, what can you expect to make in Europe as a first year 737 FO?
Because I have a European citizenship, maybe its worth it for me to make a switch.
Also how long and difficult is the process to convert a Canadian ATPL to a Euro ATPL?

[TalkingPie]

If pilots are willing and able to leave to the US for better salary/conditions/living, good for them, as well as for those who stay. That's the way free markets work and how eventually there might be a chance for Canadian businesses to be forced to raise pilot wages.

Wherever there's a hobby that men gravitate towards you're going to see jobs that don't pay well. I've been involved with bicycles, cars, and planes, and the common thread is that you get employees putting up with poor compensation in order to pursue their passions. That's all well and good, as long as they do it with their eyes open. And then you'll get the ones at the top who've won "the tournament" and make good money.

I'm the poster boy of an observer who's subject to survivorship bias. I chat with countless Canadian big airline pilots and what I see is that they're happy with how their careers turned out. Those who came up through the underpaying regionals largely have positive things to say about even that experience, and I see the pictures of their cottages and cool cars they can now afford. Before the pandemic there were young pilots in their mid-twenties who'd already moved into FO positions at a major airline.

On the other hand, my local FTU is full of young, qualified low-thousand hour pilots that are earning a pittance and who don't know when they'll be able to move up. From what the instructors tell me, there are still enough recalled regional pilots after the pandemic that instructors aren't able to move into their first non-FTU flying roles. Fresh CPL holders have no instructor openings to move into. Earlier this week a couple of instructors were talking about wanting to get their FAA licenses despite French being their mother tongue.

As an older CPL student I really don't know where it'll all go in the next few years. In any case, new student pilots would be well-advised to have a Plan B, be it saved money, another career, and/or the willingness and ability to live happily on a modest income. Giving up your freedom is always something best avoided, no matter how exciting flying a plane can be. For me, that means learning to fly part time while keeping the job that can pay the mortgage and my flying lessons. That comes with its own drawbacks, and I think few people would want to follow my exact life's path, but it's what works for me. I hope everyone else finds what works for them.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

If pilots are willing and able to leave to the US for better salary/conditions/living, good for them, as well as for those who stay. That's the way free markets work and how eventually there might be a chance for Canadian businesses to be forced to raise pilot wages.

Wherever there's a hobby that men gravitate towards you're going to see jobs that don't pay well. I've been involved with bicycles, cars, and planes, and the common thread is that you get employees putting up with poor compensation in order to pursue their passions. That's all well and good, as long as they do it with their eyes open. And then you'll get the ones at the top who've won "the tournament" and make good money.

I'm the poster boy of an observer who's subject to survivorship bias. I chat with countless Canadian big airline pilots and what I see is that they're happy with how their careers turned out. Those who came up through the underpaying regionals largely have positive things to say about even that experience, and I see the pictures of their cottages and cool cars they can now afford. Before the pandemic there were young pilots in their mid-twenties who'd already moved into FO positions at a major airline.

On the other hand, my local FTU is full of young, qualified low-thousand hour pilots that are earning a pittance and who don't know when they'll be able to move up. From what the instructors tell me, there are still enough recalled regional pilots after the pandemic that instructors aren't able to move into their first non-FTU flying roles. Fresh CPL holders have no instructor openings to move into. Earlier this week a couple of instructors were talking about wanting to get their FAA licenses despite French being their mother tongue.

As an older CPL student I really don't know where it'll all go in the next few years. In any case, new student pilots would be well-advised to have a Plan B, be it saved money, another career, and/or the willingness and ability to live happily on a modest income. Giving up your freedom is always something best avoided, no matter how exciting flying a plane can be. For me, that means learning to fly part time while keeping the job that can pay the mortgage and my flying lessons. That comes with its own drawbacks, and I think few people would want to follow my exact life's path, but it's what works for me. I hope everyone else finds what works for them.

So basically in a nutshell Canada sucks the big one, great thanks for reinforcing what’s been said lol

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Looks like lately everyone I know that flies wants to leave this country. It’s depressing.

It’s not just pilots leaving, ames are dropping off the face of the earth in Canada. I don’t work in Canada much as a technician anymore so I don’t stay abreast of who’s still out there but lately I’ve asked about a few guys that were in it for years who have moved onto different careers as well and not one of them are looking back.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

But would living in socialist Europe really be better than living and working here?
Real question, what can you expect to make in Europe as a first year 737 FO?
Because I have a European citizenship, maybe its worth it for me to make a switch.
Also how long and difficult is the process to convert a Canadian ATPL to a Euro ATPL?

… we’re living in socialist Canada…

[‘Bob’]

Canadians are by far the lowest paid aviators in the civilized world.

No they aren’t. Maybe they are in your sector. I know I wouldn’t trade places with most (but not all) of my American counterparts. That’s not to say that there aren’t low paid pilots in Canada, but that isn’t a rule, just like it isn’t a rule that pilots uniformly make better money elsewhere.

I’ve worked in almost every continent in the world, and I can assure you, Canadians are paid trash. Defend it all you want, I have first hand knowledge and nothing will change my mind in the decades I’ve been in this racket

There’s more to it than just pay.

Otherwise… why are you like so many expats who frequent this forum. You want to have your cake and eat it too. TNSTAAFL.

USA. 0-1500 hours is what breaks most pilots. There’s no huge supply of time building jobs there. It would be interesting to see how many get their CPL and 250 hours vs how many get to 1500 and an airline job. Everyone here is thinking they should have USA wages when they’ve been flying a Q since 500 hours vs trying to get on with Ameriflight for the 10th time after towing gliders or dropping meat bombs.

Everywhere else, flight training is insanely expensive. You have to come from a wealthy family, or go through the military, or be accepted into a national cadet program. That’s why they need expats and why wages are so high. Lack of supply.

Europe: In addition to the above, come with your own type rating.

Asia/ME: Get worked to death and live in either oppressive states or next door to probably the next war.

South America: Your choice. Get shot in Brazil, watch your money disappear in Argentina, maybe find a sweet gig but it really depends on which country and time period.

Africa: Enough said.

Canada is the easiest country in which to become an airline pilot, and being an airline pilot isn’t exactly academically challenging. Absent some other method of drowning the puppies or culling the herd.. we will always have an oversupply of pilots.

That is why our wages are low. Period.