• Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Posted: **Mon May 23, 2022 10:31 pm**

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-airl ... kU1LkHApLs

I realize this is the states and we’re in Canada .. but I see zero evidence of a shortage..

I’d be more worried about layoffs with the state of affairs in Canada . ( fuel prices, delays, continuing travel restrictions and the general populous who is afraid of CV19)

Posted: **Mon May 23, 2022 10:53 pm**

McKinley wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 10:31 pm https://www.businessinsider.com/us-airl ... kU1LkHApLs

I realize this is the states and we’re in Canada .. but I see zero evidence of a shortage..

I’d be more worried about layoffs with the state of affairs in Canada . ( fuel prices, delays, continuing travel restrictions and the general populous who is afraid of CV19)

I don't know the us side but I can sure that's a joke in Canada.

Posted: **Mon May 23, 2022 11:32 pm**

Seeing as 703’s can’t even get resume’s anymore and 1000 hour pilots are interviewing for 737 jobs. I’d say there is definitely a shortage.

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2022 8:23 am**

At my humble 703/704 we just got pretty decent raises (~30% for me..) in an attempt to stem the flow out of the door, and attract more people to come in.. While that's not a shortage per se, it certainly points to one.

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2022 10:06 am**

mmm..bacon wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 8:23 am At my humble 703/704 we just got pretty decent raises (~30% for me..) in an attempt to stem the flow out of the door, and attract more people to come in.. While that's not a shortage per se, it certainly points to one.

Because it's not a pilot shortage it's a salary shortage. Don't let them spin this into some kind of lack of workers issue or they'll just further open the floodgates for immigration. The issue is the jobs don't pay enough.

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2022 10:32 am**

FL030 wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 10:06 am
mmm..bacon wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 8:23 am At my humble 703/704 we just got pretty decent raises (~30% for me..) in an attempt to stem the flow out of the door, and attract more people to come in.. While that's not a shortage per se, it certainly points to one.
Because it's not a pilot shortage it's a salary shortage. Don't let them spin this into some kind of lack of workers issue or they'll just further open the floodgates for immigration. The issue is the jobs don't pay enough.

I had the same argument with the person who told me about “ the shortage.”

I argued that there might be a shortage of skilled/ high time drivers. However, when Vax mandate layoffs continue as well as abysmal working conditions there’s zero shortage. There’s workers in the field who are fed up… and leaving and employees who have been terminated due to mandates. A “shortage” and fed up employees leaving their profession are two vastly different issues.

Since being in the industry in the mid 2000’s I haven’t seen this so called shortage. Once. I’d say the closest I’ve seen was pre-pandemic .. even then regionals had zero issues hiring 200 hour college grads from the puppy mills.

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2022 1:00 pm**

There is definitely a shortfall of qualified pilots due to the conditions of the industry. I have a hard time reading this “they can’t get people due to low pay….” This was never an issue up until aboot 2016. A lot of pilots signed bonds and stepped on the next guy just to get to Jazz … in your 30/40s to go back to 30-40k a year… Pilots left hiring paying king air jobs to fly clapped out dash wits for shite wages at “the airlines”. That did however have many folks re-consider the “dream” and not become pilots. I don’t know a single person who as a CPL or ATPL who is saying “the wages are too low so I’ll go work at the Home Depot…” Frigg pilots used to pay to get jobs and then work for free…

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2022 1:04 pm**

Tanker299 wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 1:00 pm There is definitely a shortfall of qualified pilots due to the conditions of the industry. I have a hard time reading this “they can’t get people due to low pay….” This was never an issue up until aboot 2016. A lot of pilots signed bonds and stepped on the next guy just to get to Jazz … in your 30/40s to go back to 30-40k a year… Pilots left hiring paying king air jobs to fly clapped out dash wits for shite wages at “the airlines”. That did however have many folks re-consider the “dream” and not become pilots. I don’t know a single person who as a CPL or ATPL who is saying “the wages are too low so I’ll go work at the Home Depot…” Frigg pilots used to pay to get jobs and then work for free…

I personally know 2 who have left for other professions. Not Home Depot no, but there's a plethora of jobs out there one could qualify for. I think there are a couple more on avcanada as well.

Another fun fact is that a degree -desired by some airlines- also makes a pilot more marketable and able to leave for other high(er) paying jobs.

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2022 2:20 pm**

Jazz was very short of Captains in the fall of 2019. Yes they were hiring lots of low time CPL’s but they were not upgradable, and/or were failing the upgrade course due to lack of experience.

I would suggest that we are now in the perfect storm. A wave of early retirements have thinned out the senior ranks and the new FDT regs mean that running the same schedule as 2019 means between 10 and 15 percent more pilots.

The only thing holding things back is that a lot of international flying has not come back yet particularly to Asia. If that goes back to 2019 levels AC is probably 1000 pilots short.

Posted: **Sat May 28, 2022 9:16 am**

There is most certainly a shortage of experienced (3000+ hours) pilots in Canada. Next summer there will be airlines parking airplanes due to a shortage of crew

Posted: **Sat May 28, 2022 9:23 am**

tbaylx wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 9:16 am There is most certainly a shortage of experienced (3000+ hours) pilots in Canada. Next summer there will be airlines parking airplanes due to a shortage of crew

Shortage of experienced pilots willing to work for Canadian wages. I know of 3 8000+ hour pilots with thousands of PIC and 705 jet time that have left because it’s not worth it. Between Canadian wages being so low and even the cost of commuting $700-$1000 / month of your after tax dollars it doesn’t make sense anymore. They have all said if the US opened the border they are gone and will go back to aviation.

Posted: **Sun May 29, 2022 5:03 am**

Flair has already had to cx flights due to lack of crew

Posted: **Sun May 29, 2022 6:24 am**

Heard that Canadian North were doing some of their flts recently.

Posted: **Sun May 29, 2022 7:21 am**

JHR wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:03 am Flair has already had to cx flights due to lack of crew

There are two kinds of shortage. One is crew staffing issue another is lack of applicant.
I think staffing problem is more possible.

Posted: **Sun May 29, 2022 8:43 am**

With early retirements, less students, and covid - we may not be in a "shortage" but the days of kicking over a rock and 3 ATPL pilots with type ratings scurrying out are over.
It's a pretty good time to be a pilot right now, we'll see if we actually capitalize on it

Posted: **Sun May 29, 2022 10:42 am**

JHR wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:03 am Flair has already had to cx flights due to lack of crew

Salary shortage.

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2022 4:41 am**

Companies are holding wages down hoping they'll get govt approval to bring TFWs over. See? We can’t find any canadians!

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2022 5:02 am**

sstaurus wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 4:41 am Companies are holding wages down hoping they'll get govt approval to bring TFWs over. See? We can’t find any canadians!

May I ask what is TFWs ?

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2022 5:32 am**

Temporary Foreign Workers. Contract pilots.

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2022 6:08 am**

C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:32 am Temporary Foreign Workers. Contract pilots.

It's pathetic If that's happening . Plenty of unemployed pilot in Canada.

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2022 8:41 am**

digits_ wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 1:04 pm
Tanker299 wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 1:00 pm There is definitely a shortfall of qualified pilots due to the conditions of the industry. I have a hard time reading this “they can’t get people due to low pay….” This was never an issue up until aboot 2016. A lot of pilots signed bonds and stepped on the next guy just to get to Jazz … in your 30/40s to go back to 30-40k a year… Pilots left hiring paying king air jobs to fly clapped out dash wits for shite wages at “the airlines”. That did however have many folks re-consider the “dream” and not become pilots. I don’t know a single person who as a CPL or ATPL who is saying “the wages are too low so I’ll go work at the Home Depot…” Frigg pilots used to pay to get jobs and then work for free…
I personally know 2 who have left for other professions. Not Home Depot no, but there's a plethora of jobs out there one could qualify for. I think there are a couple more on avcanada as well.

Another fun fact is that a degree -desired by some airlines- also makes a pilot more marketable and able to leave for other high(er) paying jobs.

Just curious to which other careers they went into? I am thinking of leaving aviation as well and am considering my options...

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2022 8:43 am**

Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:41 am
digits_ wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 1:04 pm
Tanker299 wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 1:00 pm There is definitely a shortfall of qualified pilots due to the conditions of the industry. I have a hard time reading this “they can’t get people due to low pay….” This was never an issue up until aboot 2016. A lot of pilots signed bonds and stepped on the next guy just to get to Jazz … in your 30/40s to go back to 30-40k a year… Pilots left hiring paying king air jobs to fly clapped out dash wits for shite wages at “the airlines”. That did however have many folks re-consider the “dream” and not become pilots. I don’t know a single person who as a CPL or ATPL who is saying “the wages are too low so I’ll go work at the Home Depot…” Frigg pilots used to pay to get jobs and then work for free…
I personally know 2 who have left for other professions. Not Home Depot no, but there's a plethora of jobs out there one could qualify for. I think there are a couple more on avcanada as well.

Another fun fact is that a degree -desired by some airlines- also makes a pilot more marketable and able to leave for other high(er) paying jobs.
Just curious to which other careers they went into? I am thinking of leaving aviation as well and am considering my options...

Why did you want to come? And why do you want to leave? Isn't it recovering?

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2022 9:17 am**

Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:41 am
digits_ wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 1:04 pm
Tanker299 wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 1:00 pm There is definitely a shortfall of qualified pilots due to the conditions of the industry. I have a hard time reading this “they can’t get people due to low pay….” This was never an issue up until aboot 2016. A lot of pilots signed bonds and stepped on the next guy just to get to Jazz … in your 30/40s to go back to 30-40k a year… Pilots left hiring paying king air jobs to fly clapped out dash wits for shite wages at “the airlines”. That did however have many folks re-consider the “dream” and not become pilots. I don’t know a single person who as a CPL or ATPL who is saying “the wages are too low so I’ll go work at the Home Depot…” Frigg pilots used to pay to get jobs and then work for free…
I personally know 2 who have left for other professions. Not Home Depot no, but there's a plethora of jobs out there one could qualify for. I think there are a couple more on avcanada as well.

Another fun fact is that a degree -desired by some airlines- also makes a pilot more marketable and able to leave for other high(er) paying jobs.
Just curious to which other careers they went into? I am thinking of leaving aviation as well and am considering my options...

One to IT and one to IFR approach design (so still aviation related, but non-flying).

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2022 9:36 am**

digits_ wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 9:17 am
Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:41 am
digits_ wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 1:04 pm

I personally know 2 who have left for other professions. Not Home Depot no, but there's a plethora of jobs out there one could qualify for. I think there are a couple more on avcanada as well.

Another fun fact is that a degree -desired by some airlines- also makes a pilot more marketable and able to leave for other high(er) paying jobs.
Just curious to which other careers they went into? I am thinking of leaving aviation as well and am considering my options...
One to IT and one to IFR approach design (so still aviation related, but non-flying).

Thanks, sounds like they got some pretty good opportunities.

Posted: **Mon May 30, 2022 9:39 am**

qwe221sd wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:43 am
Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:41 am
digits_ wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 1:04 pm

I personally know 2 who have left for other professions. Not Home Depot no, but there's a plethora of jobs out there one could qualify for. I think there are a couple more on avcanada as well.

Another fun fact is that a degree -desired by some airlines- also makes a pilot more marketable and able to leave for other high(er) paying jobs.
Just curious to which other careers they went into? I am thinking of leaving aviation as well and am considering my options...
Why did you want to come? And why do you want to leave? Isn't it recovering?

I got into flying in my 20s for the love of the craft. Now I am in my 30s with a family, mortgage, cars and need more money to support all of that. I still love the flying just not the industry. It is recovering but wages are stagnant while cost of living is out of control.

Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..

Re: Pilot shortage …? Reality or fake news ..