Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Discuss topics relating to Encore.

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goingmissed
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by goingmissed »

Mac08 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:36 am
Probably one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read about benefits. 9000+ employees, must have the best health benefits in the country.

Heard through the grapevine of friends that CSA's (whatever is left) got their STD/LTD removed. Surely Jazz airport employee's never had it because they don't have over 9000 employees.

ONEX... Sorry... Westjet...as been shaving penny's left right and center, including health benefits. It's only going to get worse for you guys.
Sounds like you hate the WestJet group and are responding emotionally.

Unfortunately, as an outside observer, there is only so much you can possibly know and comment on. Benefits are just fine. New contract next year.

I hope that you enjoy where you are in your career.
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Aspiredtofly
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by Aspiredtofly »

goingmissed wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:51 am
Aspiredtofly wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:28 am What's the current payscale at encore? Latest one.
It hasn't changed in a few years. Contract negotiations should begin next year.

Image

75MMG/900 guaranteed hours per year

~2% pay increase per year

~$3.45/hour away from base (pairing start to pairing end) per diem, increasing at 2% per year
Do you keep your YOS(years of service) when moving to CA?
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Canadaflyer46
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by Canadaflyer46 »

goingmissed wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:26 pm
ASSAM wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:02 am
goingmissed wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:24 am The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

Do what you need to do for yourself to be happy and successful.

I for one am relatively happy at Encore, pleased with ALPA, and have no intention of jumping ship.
Good to hear other side.

Would you be kind enough to share some of your like and dislikes (if any) at Encore.

TIA
Pros:
- I can hold a schedule with no reserve on a relatively low seniority.
- I'm home and I sleep in my own bed with my wife every night
- Relatively young aircraft
- Outgoing and fun crew. There are only three pilots that I do not like to fly with and with ~550 pilots, you don't get stuck with the same person over and over again usually
- The WENMEC does their job well <- you'll see that debated a lot, so take my opinion as it is.
- No hat.

Cons:
- No YOS
- Young contract
- Jazz and AC pilots think that they're better than you

Con:
- Being the only airline pilots in North America that are told by their management to clean garbage and cross seat belts in between flights for free.

Pros:
- After approx 6-8 years you can flow to WJ/Swoop and give up the janitor duties.
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FlyAlberta
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by FlyAlberta »

[/quote]

Do you keep your YOS(years of service) when moving to CA?
[/quote]



No. Doesn’t really matter though when people are upgrading in a year (Maybe 2 if you’re starting with 1000hrs or less)
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Aspiredtofly
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by Aspiredtofly »

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goingmissed
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by goingmissed »

Canadaflyer46 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:14 pm Con:
- Being the only airline pilots in North America that are told by their management to clean garbage and cross seat belts in between flights for free.

Pros:
- After approx 6-8 years you can flow to WJ/Swoop and give up the janitor duties.
Grooming is only completed after pilot duties are complete. I believe that they will be abolished for operating pilots this year.
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Aspiredtofly
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by Aspiredtofly »

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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by Aspiredtofly »

Aspiredtofly wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:37 pm
Aspiredtofly wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:19 pm
kiaszceski wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:24 pm
Besides the pay, you need to look into how the credits are given.
One good comparison would be to take the average credit hours for Jazz vs Encore before the pandemic, without OT.
I think it was around 75hrs for Encore and 82.5hrs for Jazz.

That's good to know, so at the minimum jazz is around 82.5hrs of flying with still the lowest payscale for FO and a few cents higher for the CA as compared to west jet encore. Intresting
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kiaszceski
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by kiaszceski »

Aspiredtofly wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:38 pm
Aspiredtofly wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:37 pm
Aspiredtofly wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:19 pm
That's good to know, so at the minimum jazz is around 82.5hrs of flying with still the lowest payscale for FO and a few cents higher for the CA as compared to west jet encore. Intresting
Captain at Encore in 2023: 86.27 * 75 = 6470
Captain at Jazz in 2023: (84.89+86.59) /2 x 82.5 = 7073

This is only true if the MMG at Jazz is kept at 82.5.

Now don't forget you can take OT in both companies and it is paid 1.5 times the normal rate I think.
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Mac08
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by Mac08 »

goingmissed wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:59 am
Mac08 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:36 am
Probably one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read about benefits. 9000+ employees, must have the best health benefits in the country.

Heard through the grapevine of friends that CSA's (whatever is left) got their STD/LTD removed. Surely Jazz airport employee's never had it because they don't have over 9000 employees.

ONEX... Sorry... Westjet...as been shaving penny's left right and center, including health benefits. It's only going to get worse for you guys.
Sounds like you hate the WestJet group and are responding emotionally.

Unfortunately, as an outside observer, there is only so much you can possibly know and comment on. Benefits are just fine. New contract next year.

I hope that you enjoy where you are in your career.
It was a ridiculous statement. What do you want me to say? Surely Westjet benefits are the best in industry because of how many employees they have. Sounds insane huh.

Team teal - been there, done that.

Sounds like you're upset Team red thinks they're better. Hope you enjoy Encore so much you'll spend a decent part of your life waiting just to fly jet engines.
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Maskless1
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by Maskless1 »

So is YYZ base closing
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Canadaflyer46
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by Canadaflyer46 »

Maskless1 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:04 pm So is YYZ base closing
In short, yes. The company has said there won't be any layoffs. Perhaps because most Encore folks already had a foot out the door before this announcement anyway. Im sure they'll come up with a crafty solution to avoid having to pay those relocation expenses though. Status quo for now, could take up to a year for the YYZ flying to fizzle out I heard on the ALPA call this week.
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pilot4life
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by pilot4life »

I guess their “Hub and Spoke” model didn’t go as planned. Most of the connections were badly networked which led to a very unreliable service especially as of late. Time to bring back all the point to point flying out east! I’m guessing that’s what will happen if/when this Sunwing merger happens. Direct flights to Sun destinations from YYZ and YUL.
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Saubia
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by Saubia »

Average_Canuck wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:06 am From a current employee to potential applicants, here are MY top reasons you shouldn't consider Encore:

1. Not to beat a dead horse, but flow may soon be a thing of the past. Even if the Pilot Transfer Agreement with Encore, Swoop, Mainline (and Sunwing?) may exist, you're still looking at 6 to 8 years to flow at 8 pilots per month (over 530 pilots at WEN currently) This is assuming there will be a minimim of 8 per month...and that's asking a lot, apparently.

2. If you have 1500 hours and an ATP (or in most cases IATRA with 1000) you have a lot more options now - Porter, Jazz, Sunwing, Transat, Cargojet, Swoop, Flair, Lynx, even mainline WJ. They ALL have better contracts than Encore - hands down. Better pay, same or better equipment, maybe even comparable schedules.

3. Encore ALPA has no teeth. All they care about is pub nights. They answer your questions like management - generic, vague and never to the point.

4. With Jazz, even if you decide AC is not for you (for some reason) a career at Jazz is not a bad option at all. Have a look at their pay structure- compare it with Encore's and you'll see why.

5. During your interview at Encore, they'll emphasize how a successful outcome of this one interview will take you all the way to a dreamliner. Don't fall for it. It's that dangling carrot at the end of the stick that grows longer and longer every year.

6. Too many scheduling issues and IROPS - granted this may be the case for every other airline currently, so take my comment with a pinch of salt.

7. You'll see the same names and their friends for training pilot nominees, pilot management positions, office positions, etc. Again, my personal opinion - sorry if you find this offensive.

8. Westjet management will never agree to years of service - meaning if you flow to mainline after howmanyever years, you start as year 1 mainline FO. The 'bridge pay' (REIP) isn't much I hear, after taxes.. correct me if I'm wrong.

Now to answer the question - What am I still doing here? Trust me when I say this - like several other Encore Pilots, I'm looking to move pronto. These problems didn't quite exist when we started here.

What are your reasons? What do you think of mine?
I am working at encore and i cannot agree more. And alpa is clearly doing nothing. Wait for an other option or stay where u are but definetly don't go to encore.
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Last edited by Saubia on Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
JBI
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by JBI »

Saubia wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:17 am
I am working at encore and i cannot agree more. And alpa is clearly doing nothing. I am also wondering what i am doing in this cie. Wait for an other option or stay where u are but definetly don't go to encore.
Wait, You're working at Encore? In this post from August 2020, you say you're working at Jazz: viewtopic.php?p=1124852#p1124852
Traning bond or ... non flying job
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Post by Saubia » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:16 pm

Good evening,

I was at Jazz and laid off couple of months ago due to the covid situation. Just wondering if you should take the risk to go to a 703 operator and pay the training bond in case jazz call me back or... if I should wait with a non flying job.

Just asking your opinon.

thx for ur help!
Don't you know which airline you work for? :?

Either way, for yourself or the OP, I'm curious what you think your ALPA volunteers should be doing differently (that isn't illegal)?
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Saubia
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by Saubia »

JBI wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:48 pm
Saubia wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:17 am
I am working at encore and i cannot agree more.
Wait, You're working at Encore? In this post from August 2020, you say you're working at Jazz: viewtopic.php?p=1124852#p1124852
Traning bond or ... non flying job
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Post by Saubia » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:16 pm

Good evening,

I was at Jazz and laid off couple of months ago due to the covid situation. Just wondering if you should take the risk to go to a 703 operator and pay the training bond in case jazz call me back or... if I should wait with a non flying job.

Just asking your opinon.

thx for ur help!
Don't you know which airline you work for? :?

Either way, for yourself or the OP, I'm curious what you think your ALPA volunteers should be doing differently (that isn't illegal)?
I was at jazz before, moved to encore before the covid. I used a shortcut on my previous post.....I don't want to start a topic on alpa here. It's public forum and not the place to blame them. I'm just saying we lost so much the past few years and I still don't see any improvement coming from their actions.
I'll still finish on a positive note: people i work with are great, I really mean it. But I start to be really frustrated by the way we are loosing our conditions.
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Last edited by Saubia on Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:48 am, edited 3 times in total.
goingmissed
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by goingmissed »

Saubia wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:17 am I am working at encore and i cannot agree more. And alpa is clearly doing nothing. I am also wondering what i am doing in this cie. Wait for an other option or stay where u are but definetly don't go to encore.
Clearly you don't know what ALPA is doing. That is very different from ALPA not doing anything.

With that distinction made, I understand that you are upset and want more information. I suggest watching the All Pilot Call recording that they put up recently that put discussed several things that they are working on. On top of that, you must remember that they cannot announce every single thing they are fighting for and every single step as it would undermine the talks that are ongoing.

Try reaching out to your rep and you might get some more information relevant to what concerns you.
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Canadaflyer46
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by Canadaflyer46 »

Saubia wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:29 pm
JBI wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:48 pm
Saubia wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:17 am
I am working at encore and i cannot agree more. And alpa is clearly doing nothing. I am also wondering what i am doing in this cie. Wait for an other option or stay where u are but definetly don't go to encore.
Wait, You're working at Encore? In this post from August 2020, you say you're working at Jazz: viewtopic.php?p=1124852#p1124852
Traning bond or ... non flying job
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Post by Saubia » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:16 pm

Good evening,

I was at Jazz and laid off couple of months ago due to the covid situation. Just wondering if you should take the risk to go to a 703 operator and pay the training bond in case jazz call me back or... if I should wait with a non flying job.

Just asking your opinon.

thx for ur help!
Don't you know which airline you work for? :?

Either way, for yourself or the OP, I'm curious what you think your ALPA volunteers should be doing differently (that isn't illegal)?
I was at jazz before, moved to encore before the covid. I used a shortcut on my previous post.... anyway worst move i've ever done.
I don't want to start a topic on alpa here. It's public forum and not the place to blame them. I'm just saying we lost so much the past few years and I still don't see any improvement coming from their actions.
I'll still finish on a positive note: people i work with are great, I really mean it. But I start to be really frustrated by the way we are loosing our conditions.
Call your rep and chat. The Encore MEC are working hard and according to their last call pushing hard for a merger, otherwise they know the company might as well close the doors at Encore in the current climate.
No offence, but I don’t understand why you would give up a spot at Jazz to come to Encore. That’s like quitting AC for WJ. It just doesn’t happen.
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JBI
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by JBI »

goingmissed and Canadianflyer46 have it spot on with the ALPA stuff. While my post was intended to clear up whether you were trolling or not, it was also an honest question as to what you'd want ALPA to be doing different/better. As a volunteer, I do my best to answer any questions with the other pilots I'm flying with a lot of the times once we've had a chance to chat, pilots will realize that we're actually doing exactly what they want - it just, unfortunately, takes a lot more time with the Labour laws and processes in place.

Our MEC, reps, Grievance Committee members and Negotiation Committee members do their best to provide as much info as they can (without compromising ongoing negotiations or grievances). Reach out to a rep, volunteer or a P2P member. Don't get me wrong, we're not perfect. We're volunteers who, even though we've received training and have access to some amazing ALPA resources and staff, are dealing with the descent into and recovery from a global pandemic for the first time. And, especially as some of the more senior reps and volunteers Flow and as we sort out the challenges of this most recent announcement, we're always looking for solid folks to put up their hands to volunteer.
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FlyAlberta
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Re: Reasons to NOT choose Encore

Post by FlyAlberta »

Saubia wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:29 pm
JBI wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:48 pm
Saubia wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:17 am
I am working at encore and i cannot agree more.
Wait, You're working at Encore? In this post from August 2020, you say you're working at Jazz: viewtopic.php?p=1124852#p1124852
Traning bond or ... non flying job
Report Quote
Post by Saubia » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:16 pm

Good evening,

I was at Jazz and laid off couple of months ago due to the covid situation. Just wondering if you should take the risk to go to a 703 operator and pay the training bond in case jazz call me back or... if I should wait with a non flying job.

Just asking your opinon.

thx for ur help!
Don't you know which airline you work for? :?

Either way, for yourself or the OP, I'm curious what you think your ALPA volunteers should be doing differently (that isn't illegal)?
I was at jazz before, moved to encore before the covid. I used a shortcut on my previous post.....I don't want to start a topic on alpa here. It's public forum and not the place to blame them. I'm just saying we lost so much the past few years and I still don't see any improvement coming from their actions.
I'll still finish on a positive note: people i work with are great, I really mean it. But I start to be really frustrated by the way we are loosing our conditions.


Sorry,but I think you’re trolling. The quoted post from Aug 2020 says you were laid off from Jazz due to the Covid situation. Your follow up to that says you moved to Encore from Jazz before Covid. If you were laid off from Jazz due to Covid then Encore certainly hadn’t been hiring after Covid started. Sorry, just sounds fishy.

Perhaps you’re a new hire this year at Encore, in which case, you would be currently in initial training or completed line indoc this month. If that’s the case then, with all due respect, you haven’t had enough time to really become educated on what ALPA is or has been up to.

I’ve never been more satisfied and confident in the current stance that the Encore MEC is taking, and EVERY SINGLE pilot I’ve talked to since the last ALPA call, every single one, shares the same opinion. My only hope is that they continue to hold their firm stance and fight for our desired outcome.
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