Rejecting a Job offer

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theflyingstickman
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Rejecting a Job offer

Post by theflyingstickman »

Has anyone ever turned down a job offer from AC and later been offered a position with them again down the road? Or is telling them no once almost like telling them no forever?
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flyingfool
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by flyingfool »

What??

Turn down 4 years of flat pay while taking the chance of being tossed at any given moment?

Walk away from the largest Canadian pilot union with its rich history of representation with "experienced adults" that negotiated pay rates less than Flight Attendants & ULCCs?

What's wrong with you??
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tailgunner
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by tailgunner »

Yes.
I flew with an FO in 2019 who turned down their initial offer of employment in 2013. They said that they had what they thought were good reasons at the time. It was the poorest decision that they could have made they now admitted. Said that they regretted it every time they looked at an A320 and realized that by coming when they were initially called, they would be a Captain on it with relatively OK seniority….
Have a friend who turned down AC to stay at Jazz in 2004 or early 2005. Said they regretted it until the day they flowed over from Jazz to AC early in the process.
You have to make your own mind up, but do not let others sway you from making the correct long term decision.
Good luck.👍
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JHR
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by JHR »

Was called to interview in 2008 and 2018. Both times I couldn't take the paycut and told them so. Don't regret it at all. Airline flying is not for me.
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rooster
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by rooster »

JHR wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:01 pm Was called to interview in 2008 and 2018. Both times I couldn't take the paycut and told them so. Don't regret it at all. Airline flying is not for me.
So you applied knowing you couldn't take the paycut, then you did it again 10 years for the same reason? What am I missing here? AC's salary isn't exactly a big corporate secret.
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DanWEC
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by DanWEC »

Personally, I'd really like to see tangible examples of 5-7 year FO pay NB or WB, and 10 year left seat actual gross or actual take-home. There's so much misinformation. Not looking for best case possibilities or outliers but rather conservative, average income. Yes, the payscale matrixes are there but there's a lot of lateral ambiguity. PM if you'd like, thanks.
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JHR
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by JHR »

rooster wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:39 pm
JHR wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:01 pm Was called to interview in 2008 and 2018. Both times I couldn't take the paycut and told them so. Don't regret it at all. Airline flying is not for me.
So you applied knowing you couldn't take the paycut, then you did it again 10 years for the same reason? What am I missing here? AC's salary isn't exactly a big corporate secret.
Applied, got a call, re-evaluated my financial position, couldn't bring myself to take the cut. Also realized I wouldn't enjoy the type of flying. Is that easier to understand?
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rudder
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by rudder »

DanWEC wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:56 pm Personally, I'd really like to see tangible examples of 5-7 year FO pay NB or WB, and 10 year left seat actual gross or actual take-home. There's so much misinformation. Not looking for best case possibilities or outliers but rather conservative, average income. Yes, the payscale matrixes are there but there's a lot of lateral ambiguity. PM if you'd like, thanks.
AC pilots do very well on take home pay ratio due benefit premiums employer paid plus deductions for pension contributions and union dues.

I will leave it to individuals to provide examples but the hourly rates are self explanatory. You have to calculate day/night and add overrides if applicable which can make a big difference on the WB side.

I had a buddy who was a WB FO did $290k on T4. Tax bill around $115k. 6% pension contribution (tax deductible). New hires have higher pension contribution rates. 1% union dues (tax deductible. Zero benefit premiums. Excluding per diems I am sure his take home pay was $160-$165k. So that would be almost $13k plus per diems for monthly cash flow. Year 5-7 NB FO would be closer to $150k gross and probably around $95-100k net.
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DanWEC
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by DanWEC »

Thanks for the info Rudder.

If anyone's following this, Transat's current payscale is pretty similar to AC's 320. FO is over 100k at year 4 and tops out at 160k. Capt is 194k to 260k Year 1-10. Much lower for pension however, as well as much lower annual vacation allotment.

AC's WB scale is quite a bit higher. No FO would ever come remotely near the #'s you're talking about.
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Inverted2
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by Inverted2 »

I had an interview offer in 2019 but I wussed out and declined. I made the decision to stay at Jazz. Had I gone (and passed the interview? :?: ) I would have been laid off for close to 2 years or stuck on reserve at the very best. Sure I will never make the 200k/year but I'm happy here and have my seniority and a relative say in my schedule choices. Plus I have no desire to do overseas flying so make your decision and don't second guess yourself or ask for advice on here. :wink:
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by rudder »

DanWEC wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:32 pm
AC's WB scale is quite a bit higher. No FO would ever come remotely near the #'s you're talking about.
Admittedly, that included some O/T flying but nothing crazy. There are B777 FO’s making even more, particularly at 2x premium.

Also applies to top scale, but that is just 12 YOS.

Given marginal tax rates and lifestyle, there are quite a few pilots that choose senior WB FO over NB CA and even WB CA.
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rooster
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by rooster »

JHR wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 5:13 am
rooster wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:39 pm
JHR wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:01 pm Was called to interview in 2008 and 2018. Both times I couldn't take the paycut and told them so. Don't regret it at all. Airline flying is not for me.
So you applied knowing you couldn't take the paycut, then you did it again 10 years for the same reason? What am I missing here? AC's salary isn't exactly a big corporate secret.
Applied, got a call, re-evaluated my financial position, couldn't bring myself to take the cut. Also realized I wouldn't enjoy the type of flying. Is that easier to understand?
Not really. You knew the first time you applied what the salary was going to be and what type of flying you'd expect. You couldn't have evaluated finances and lifestyle at the time of application? In either case, you went ahead and did it again 10 years later and decided again the pay and flying wasn't for you? Me thinks AC dodged one here.

I agree the flat pay is crap at Air Canada. It's downright garbage. But people, for god's sake don't be applying places if you don't think it's for you!!! That ain't rocket science :lol:

To lighten up a bit, I do hope things worked out for you in the end JHR
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JHR
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by JHR »

It was satisfying to tell AC that the pay was too low. Maybe if others did that things might change. Yes things worked out for me. I enjoy going to work.
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Admiral Benson
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by Admiral Benson »

For some people getting the job offer and then turning it down is important. Then you don't spend the next 30 years wondering if you would have made it. You know you made it. You can't actually say that you made a CHOICE to stay unless you rejected an offer. Otherwise it's all hypothetical.
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digits_
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by digits_ »

rooster wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:35 am
I agree the flat pay is crap at Air Canada. It's downright garbage. But people, for god's sake don't be applying places if you don't think it's for you!!! That ain't rocket science :lol:

To lighten up a bit, I do hope things worked out for you in the end JHR
Does Air Canada publish their payscale in their ads?
If not, you can't blame someone for applying to get the official salary info vs rumoured -although likely correct- info found on avcanada.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

digits_ wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:03 am
rooster wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:35 am
I agree the flat pay is crap at Air Canada. It's downright garbage. But people, for god's sake don't be applying places if you don't think it's for you!!! That ain't rocket science :lol:

To lighten up a bit, I do hope things worked out for you in the end JHR
Does Air Canada publish their payscale in their ads?
If not, you can't blame someone for applying to get the official salary info vs rumoured -although likely correct- info found on avcanada.
If Air Canada officially published those numbers on a job ad, and it made it into the general public, I feel people would be very concerned.

The fact that Air Canada makes as much money as it does, provides the service (or lack thereof) it does, and pays over 1/3 of the pilots what it does; the people ultimately in charge of getting them from A-B in one piece - it certainly leaves one to scratch their head. Must be nice to the ONLY fish in the pond.
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by Col. Panic »

While they don’t publish pay scales in their ads, the CBA is publicly available on the Labour Canada website, so accurate numbers can be found, with a little effort.
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digits_
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by digits_ »

Col. Panic wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:58 am While they don’t publish pay scales in their ads, the CBA is publicly available on the Labour Canada website, so accurate numbers can be found, with a little effort.
True, which also makes you wonder why they don't publish starting pay in their ads. Or link to the CBA.
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Hangry
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by Hangry »

Could be wrong but I don’t think AC has ever run an ad for pilots.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Rejecting a Job offer

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

Hangry wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:14 am Could be wrong but I don’t think AC has ever run an ad for pilots.
Does running it on their career we site count? They do have/had a whole spiel on there about what it's like to be a flight crew.

Again can't see them being proud of the starting pay. I think nearly everyone going into it is fairly aware.
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