Supreme Court rules kirpans okay in school

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Supreme Court rules kirpans okay in school

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Supreme Court rules kirpans okay in school
RICHARD BLACKWELL

Globe and Mail Update

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The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that Sikh students can carry ceremonial daggers to class and that doing so does not pose a undue danger to others in the schools.

The top court overturned Thursday morning a Quebec Court of Appeals ruling that had barred the kirpan from schools in the province. The Quebec court had said a limit on religious freedom was reasonable, given the safety concerns from carrying the daggers to school.

Several other provinces have long ago reached compromises with the Sikh community, allowing the carrying of the kirpan – a requirement for baptized followers of the Sikh religion – as long as it is safely sheathed and concealed.

The 2004 ruling from the Quebec appeal court, however, dismissed any possibility of a compromise in that province.

The specific case that went to the Supreme Court involves Gurbaj Singh Multani, now 17. Five years ago, he accidentally dropped his kirpan in the schoolyard of a Montreal elementary school.

Parents of other children pressured the local school board to ban the dagger, because of a zero-tolerance policy concerning weapons.

Gurbaj's parents sued, and the case wound its way through the courts for several years.

When the Supreme Court heard the arguments last April, several organizations – including the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, the Ontario Human Rights Commission, and the World Sikh Organization of Canada – intervened to support the family.

They noted that there have been no examples of any violent acts in schools as a result of wearing of the kirpan.

The youth transferred to a private school soon after the controversy erupted in 2001, and some of the intervenors were concerned that there would be a mass exodus by Sikh students from public schools across the country if the Supreme Court ruled in favour of the ban.

In its intervention, the Quebec government supported the ban, arguing that any potential weapon can cause a unnecessary risk in the schools.
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Inverted2
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Post by Inverted2 »

What a great country we live in! :?
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SkyWolfe
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Post by SkyWolfe »

Im really sorry but thats not acceptable - religion or not. When you come to this country you are expected to obey certain rules. What ever culture WE have its lost everyday.
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Post by Wilbur »

I believe the court ruled that a universal ban is an unconstitutional infringement on religious rights. It did not say Sikh students have an absolute right to carry a kirpan.

The school system needs to sit down with the Sikh leaders and sort out a solution that will meet everyone's needs. For example, a requirement to keep the Kirpan sheathed and out of site, a kirpan ban for those with a history of behaviour problems, perhaps kirpans that are fixed in their sheaths and can't be pulled out.

Other jurisdictions have already done this sort of thing and there haven't been any problems.
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Post by . ._ »

No biggy. In days of old is was nothing for kids to bring their favourite hunting or swiss army knife to school with them.

When I was in grade 7, a guy in my class did a presentation on gun safety, and brought a rifle to school to demonstrate. I'm SERIOUS! After school, there he was sitting on the bus with it.

-istp
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Post by SkyWolfe »

LOL!!

Thats crazy... In my school days (3 years ago) people were attacked with scissors!!! I remember in one of my school day faises I wore spikey arm bands - One was clear plastic and cute - I got it at Disneyland - it couldnt hurt a fly - they made me take it off because I could use it as a weapon!!
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Post by N2 »

My religion states I should carry a sawed-off shotgun are they going to let me carry one now?

This is bullshit if they want their culture so bad..GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM!
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Post by mantogasrsrwy »

And the have to make sure the Kirpan is concealed That'll ensure it's never used on anyone :roll:
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Post by niss »

Riddle me this.... is it concidered religious persicution if they are forced to remove it before bording an aircraft? I am sorry Mr. Feiner, but legally I cannot allow you to bring this nail clipper on the aircraft. But what about that guy there with the big fucking knfie strapped to his waist? Oh, thats a Kirpan, I am not legally allowed to ask him to remove it before boarding the aircraft.
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Last edited by niss on Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by mellow_pilot »

Ya know... Canada is gonna end up being known as the 'nice little country' that just snapped one day... :roll:
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Post by Rowdy »

Well then.. My religion requires me to carry a loaded, unsafetied AK47 at ALL times...

Same shit different pile. When I was in high school we had a couple of stabbings. Can ya guess which groups? The cowboys and the indians (eastern ones) Kinda sounds funny hey?

Ban weapons from the schools and anything resembling a weapon. Hell, make it easy ban anything religious from the schools. They've already ousted anything christian from public schools, which IMHO is a good thing.

and here I was thinking I'd avoid anything related to religion/politics on avcanada :roll:
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Post by Rowdy »

N2 wrote:
This is bullshit if they want their culture so bad..GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM!

I totally agree with you, but then by that point... we should all go back to europe and leave the first nations culture alone too.

It swings both ways. I'm all in favor of having everyone adopt the same, fair unbiased rules. No exceptions for anyone or anything for that matter.
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Post by . . »

SkyWolfe wrote:Im really sorry but thats not acceptable - religion or not. When you come to this country you are expected to obey certain rules. What ever culture WE have its lost everyday.
Can you state an example of canadian culture that's being lost every day? Our culture has always been a mix of the best and worst of the people who've came here. I can't believe everyone's making such a big deal about this. We're talking about what equates to a little more than most would consider a "toy" worn around their necks in most cases. This isn't some massive killing blade that's razor sharp worn on the hip. I can't believe how quickly this has degraded into talk about assult rifles and the ever famous degredation of all that is Canada. I think it's pretty evident how ignorat some are on here. How bout, if you don't like it, you leave to where your ancestors are from?

learn: http://www.sikhs.org/art12.htm
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Post by CID »

As far as I know, violent use of the Kirpan is pretty rare in Canada. Unfortunately we can't say the same about ignorance and intolerance of other cultures.

The very fact that Sikh youth wear the Kirpan shows that they are spiritual and committed to their faith. So why make the automatic leap to thinking they would use it violently?

I've seen some pretty mean bloody fist fights in school and they weren't started by Sikhs. They were some good ol' white boys that were obviously not so committed to any faith I know of.

I'm not saying that Sikhs are immune to violence, just that I think we're making a big deal out of nohting trying to save some non-existent Canadian "culture".
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Post by Brewguy »

niss wrote:Riddle me this.... is it concidered religious persicution if they are forced to remove it before bording an aircraft? I am sorry Mr. Feiner, but legally I cannot allow you to bring this nail clipper on the aircraft. But what about that guy there with the big fucking knfie strapped to his waist? Oh, thats a Kirpan, I am not legally allowed to ask him to remove it before boarding the aircraft.
Maybe you should educate yourself before posting FUD.

Nobody, not the courts, and not even the Sikh community has challenged the rules that prohibit them to be carried on an aircraft. That is an accepted practice.

I was listening to CBC radio on my drive in this morning, and they had a Sikh (they used the term "chaplain" - not sure if its correct) from one of the universities on. He said that they (the Sikh community) recognize the difference. Not everyone travels by air, and on the occasions when they do - they are only being asked to break with their religious observances for a short period of time. Prohibiting them in the schools is asking a person to break with their religious observances on a daily basis. That is the difference.
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Re: Supreme Court rules kirpans okay in school

Post by cyyz »

I am Birddog wrote: The youth transferred to a private school soon after the controversy erupted in 2001, and some of the intervenors were concerned that there would be a mass exodus by Sikh students from public schools across the country if the Supreme Court ruled in favour of the ban..
So this private school they sent jabar to, did it allow kirpans???
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Post by N2 »

Too many bleeding hearts in this damn country! When my great grand parents came here from her majesty's country they fit in here they did not make those already here fit in with them.

Just one point to ponder here...who's doing all the fighting in the middle east...the religious nuts that's who!
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Last edited by N2 on Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Doc »

Canada has become "tolerant" of other cultures to a point of stupidity! And, on that note, Canada will never know where to "draw the line" because our leaders are too busy tripping over each other NOT to appear to be intolerant of the rights of minorities. I, for one, think that when we permit certain groups to carry knives in OUR schools as a show of their "faith" we, as a society have pushed the envelope of political correctness a little far??? I know folks were upset when the RCMP allowed turbans to be worn as a part of the uniform(and some had valid points)but to allow students to arm themselves (and that's what is is, kids, make no mistake here) as a show of tolerence.....well, lets arm the teachers! AK47's all round? And swords for the RC's? Afterall, that's what the Christian religion is base on, isn't it? A Bible in one hand, and a sword in the other? More people have been killed in more wars through out history over religion than any other single cause? Religion has no place in schools. If you want to carry a bloody dagger in school, fine, carry one in a school somewhere far, far away from the schools in which my childern play and learn!!! Get on the boat and GO HOME!!!!!
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Post by CD »

istp wrote:No biggy. In days of old is was nothing for kids to bring their favourite hunting or swiss army knife to school with them.

When I was in grade 7, a guy in my class did a presentation on gun safety, and brought a rifle to school to demonstrate. I'm SERIOUS! After school, there he was sitting on the bus with it.

-istp
That wasn't all that long ago, either. When I was in school, all the guys had a pocket knife of some description with them. You would just feel ill-equipped without it. I even carried my Leatherman with me everywhere I went, until the airport security rules changed.
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Post by Rowdy »

Everyone seems to jump to the extremes in favor or against. Other than "because of religious beliefs" I see no good reason to carry a knife, large, small or massive for whatever purpose into a PUBLIC school. If the knife/weapon what have you is there... there is always the temptation to use it.

IIRC from the other thread.. the kirpan is worn as a symbol of a weapon for protection of their faith? someone correct me if I'm wrong on that..

If they do continue to allow this I feel they should make it mandatory that the kirpans NOT be concealed and their should be severe reprocussions should one EVER be drawn regardless of circumstances.

What would happen if my kid carried a butterfly or throwing knife with them into a public school? I believe it would result in expulsion if caught, and probably some kind of brush with the local law enforcements finest.
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Post by niss »

The point of my post is to show how pc has become to much. People can not carry things as benign as nail clippers on a plane for fear of people hijacking aircraft by clipping out jugulars, but the youth of certain minorities can carry weapons in schools. I have no doubt that they do not intend to use it, but why was I suspended for carrying my leatherman to school? Isnt my leatherman (while not being a religious symbol i know i know) more practical than a kirpan? Could the teachers not legitimize me carrying a leatherman? No....

Where is the sense? I wasnt even allowed my leatherman in auto for christ sake..... but they still let me play with torches, plasma cutter, welder, grinder, snips, power saws all that shit.
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Post by lilfssister »

N2 wrote:Too many bleeding hearts in this damn country! When my great grand parents came here from her majesty's country they fit in here they did not make those already here fit in with them.
Any aboriginal Canadians have a comment on this?
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Post by Wilbur »

We do not live in a black and white, one size fits all world; that was the point the Supreme Court was making in this ruling. Many social issues need to be handled on an a case by case, circumstance by circumstance, or community by community basis. A baptized Sihk seeking to carry his kirpan is in no way similar to some jackass wanting to carry a gun or Buck knife, and anyone so dogmatic that they are unable to appreciate the difference is a fundementally not too bright individiual.

Has there ever been a crime committed in Canada by a baptized Sikh using his kirpan? I'm not aware of any in my 25 years in the justice system. I think there have been a couple incidents with ceremonial swords in a Vancouver area temple a few years ago, but no kirpans that I can recall. Baptized Sikhs who actively practice their faith are a significantly under-represented group within our criminal justice system. The same can not be said for the Sikhs who have dropped their faith and it's symbols.
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Post by mantogasrsrwy »

The point is, he can carry his Kirpan to school.....but we are only allowed a "holiday tree". I think that is why there is a lack of sympathy for their religion........
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Post by Dust Devil »

CID wrote:
I've seen some pretty mean bloody fist fights in school and they weren't started by Sikhs. They were some good ol' white boys that were obviously not so committed to any faith I know of.
There ya go CID. you said it yourself that in school there are mean bloody fist fights. How long till some sikh kid gets involved in one of these and decides to use his dagger. or some one grabs it off the sikh kid and hurts or kills someone with it.
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