Hi aviators,

Just getting a feel on how many hours on average flight instructors are logging annually at a reasonable sized flight school like Seneca, or the Brampton flight centre?

Thank you for your time

Between 500 and 800 hours/years.

I tend to average about 500 hours per year as a flight instructor. I also usually err on the side of caution when it comes to weather and how effective of a learning environment it will be for a student. I would think a reasonable instructor should be able to do about 600-700 hours who sticks exactly to FTU weather minimums. Someone who is "really keen" on building hours without much concern on the effectiveness of the flight time for students at a large flight training unit should be able to cross 1000 hours within a year if they tried hard enough.

Float_lover wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:23 pm Between 500 and 800 hours/years.

Wow that’s a lot of flying in a year!

lidi wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:00 pm

Float_lover wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:23 pm Between 500 and 800 hours/years.

Wow that’s a lot of flying in a year!

I have seen eager beaver instructors accrue that much or more in a year without breaking a sweat.

praveen4143 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:13 pm

lidi wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:00 pm

Float_lover wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:23 pm Between 500 and 800 hours/years.

Wow that’s a lot of flying in a year!

I have seen eager beaver instructors accrue that much or more in a year without breaking a sweat.

Well at least to the yearly 1000 hour limit.

There's no annual (or any other) limit for flight instruction hours.

photofly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:51 am There's no annual (or any other) limit for flight instruction hours.

And people wonder why they sleep on the job.

photofly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:51 am There's no annual (or any other) limit for flight instruction hours.

Then why is TC holding us to this?: 1000 hours in any 365 consecutive days, 300 in any 90 consecutive days, 112 in any 28 consecutive days.

broken_slinky wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:13 am

photofly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:51 am There's no annual (or any other) limit for flight instruction hours.

Then why is TC holding us to this?: 1000 hours in any 365 consecutive days, 300 in any 90 consecutive days, 112 in any 28 consecutive days.

Who can say why. Which part of the regulations is that in?

700.27(1)…? And all the other parts that begin

an air operator shall not assign…

An FTU isn’t an air operator so none of those sections apply. If you hold both an FTUOC and an AOC then I guess you’re out of luck.

photofly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:22 am

broken_slinky wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:13 am

photofly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:51 am There's no annual (or any other) limit for flight instruction hours.

Then why is TC holding us to this?: 1000 hours in any 365 consecutive days, 300 in any 90 consecutive days, 112 in any 28 consecutive days.

Who can say why. Which part of the regulations is that in?

700.27(1)…? And all the other parts that begin

an air operator shall not assign…

An FTU isn’t an air operator so none of those sections apply. If you hold both an FTUOC and an AOC then I guess you’re out of luck.

Yeah, so the FTU would have to be for strictly flight instruction for "no limit" flight hours. If they provide scenics or do any charter flights, then they'd have to follow the AOC rules. Guess it could get sticky if they offer intro "scenic" flights.

You don’t need an AOC to do sightseeing flights; an FTUOC permits that.

I would guess 90% of FTUs don’t have an AOC additionally.

I would also argue that a flight instructor is not “assigned”, but that’s another argument.

praveen4143 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:13 pm

lidi wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:00 pm

Float_lover wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:23 pm Between 500 and 800 hours/years.

Wow that’s a lot of flying in a year!

I have seen eager beaver instructors accrue that much or more in a year without breaking a sweat.

Lots of time to surf their phones. Why do it at home when you can get paid a little to do it in the air?

If there's one thing rookiepilot hates more than airline pilots, its instructors.

Squaretail wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:30 pm If there's one thing rookiepilot hates more than airline pilots, its instructors.

Its a joke.

My weakness is sarcasm, shared by most other traders I’ve known.

Surf away on Instagram.

Squaretail wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:30 pm If there's one thing rookiepilot hates more than airline pilots, its instructors.

He’s conflicted. He has so much to offer but can’t lower himself to what an instructor gets paid. The inner tension is doing him no good.

rookiepilot wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:34 pm
Its a joke.

Is this some kind of long running Kaufman-esque kind of thing?

My weakness is sarcasm

You need to work on it then. It just comes across as Rookie hates the world.

broken_slinky wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:59 pm

photofly wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:22 am

broken_slinky wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:13 am

Then why is TC holding us to this?: 1000 hours in any 365 consecutive days, 300 in any 90 consecutive days, 112 in any 28 consecutive days.

Who can say why. Which part of the regulations is that in?

700.27(1)…? And all the other parts that begin

an air operator shall not assign…

An FTU isn’t an air operator so none of those sections apply. If you hold both an FTUOC and an AOC then I guess you’re out of luck.

Yeah, so the FTU would have to be for strictly flight instruction for "no limit" flight hours. If they provide scenics or do any charter flights, then they'd have to follow the AOC rules. Guess it could get sticky if they offer intro "scenic" flights.

We have both an FTU OC and a 702 OC. A subset of instructors are also 702 pilots and subject to duty time limitations. The rest are not. The highest time instructor did over 1000 hours last year but the average was slightly over 600.

If an instructor who is also a 792 pilot times out for 702 operations, can they continue to instruct beyond the 1000 hour limit?

photofly wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:07 am If an instructor who is also a 792 pilot times out for 702 operations, can they continue to instruct beyond the 1000 hour limit?

I would argue yes since they are beholden to both flight time and duty time limits when operating under either OC...

As a 'lazy' instructor working 8 hours days 5 days a week, 250-450 hours annually. Do a lot of sim stuff though.

photofly wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:07 am If an instructor who is also a 792 pilot times out for 702 operations, can they continue to instruct beyond the 1000 hour limit?

I haven’t been involved with 702 ops for a few years so I’m not sure how duty times are counted now but it used to be that duty times were counted only on days when a pilot performed a 702 flight. In that case the duty day was from the beginning of the first flight of the day until the end of the last flight of the day, whenever 406 or 702 flights were flown. If no 702 flight occurred then no duty time was recorded that day. Under that scheme instructional flights could still occur after 1000 hours.

Yes our TC guy approved this.

Aviatard wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:39 am

photofly wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:07 am If an instructor who is also a 792 pilot times out for 702 operations, can they continue to instruct beyond the 1000 hour limit?

I haven’t been involved with 702 ops for a few years so I’m not sure how duty times are counted now but it used to be that duty times were counted only on days when a pilot performed a 702 flight. In that case the duty day was from the beginning of the first flight of the day until the end of the last flight of the day, whenever 406 or 702 flights were flown. If no 702 flight occurred then no duty time was recorded that day. Under that scheme instructional flights could still occur after 1000 hours.

Yes our TC guy approved this.

Maximum Flight Time
700.27 (1) An air operator shall not assign flight time to a flight crew member, and a flight crew member shall not accept such an assignment, if the member’s total flight time will, as a result, exceed

(a) 112 hours in any 28 consecutive days;

(b) 300 hours in any 90 consecutive days;

(c) 1,000 hours in any 365 consecutive days; or

(d) in the case of a single-pilot operation, 8 hours in any 24 consecutive hours.

(2) For the purpose of subsection (1), a flight crew member’s flight time includes

(a) the flight time accumulated from other flight operations; and

(b) the total flight time of a flight with an augmented flight crew.

Given the statement at (2) (a) above I do not see how you could ignore instructing time in the total hour calculation

Instructors or schools technically don’t need to follow flight duty regs. As for hours in a year I was doing 750-800 per year at my school.

780Pilot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:20 am Instructors or schools technically don’t need to follow flight duty regs. As for hours in a year I was doing 750-800 per year at my school.

Correct if you are only doing flight instruction under CAR Subpart 406. It is unfortunate that TC did not address the fact that there are no flight and duty times regulations for flight instruction as the existing ones only apply to flight operations conducted under CAR part 7