EASA PPL conversion to Canada PPL

[maxeppc]

I am really new to the forum thus I would like to say hi to everyone.

I am coming to Canada next year with PR and I am going to convert EASA PPL (training in progress) to the canadian one to be able to fly without any restrictions in Canada. I have found which steps I need to follow to convert it but didn’t find how expensive is it and how long would it take. Could someone write if one went through this and how much did it cost?

[Bede]

Welcome to Canada.

You can do it 2 ways:
1) based in your EASA license (the EASA License must be current for your Canadian PPL to be valid. You must complete the Pre Solo Test-Air Regulations and pay the licensing fee to TC. All in cost will be about $200.(no typo).
2) stand alone PPL. Need to do PPL written and flight test. Cost depends on how proficient you are to get recommended for the flight test. Cost on average $2000.

See CAR 425.26 (8) https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-servi ... ars#421_26

You can also check out my website freepilotgroundschool.ca.

I used to be the CFI at KBM Aviation. We processed quite a few foreign licenses. It's a pretty efficient training environment in Thunder Bay.

[PilotDAR]

Welcome Max,

Norwegian friends of mine did this seven years ago when they came to pick up a Canadian registered plane for which I was responsible. Don't quote me, but I think I recall it was an application only process, costing $45. I can't find it in the Transport Canada list of fees at present, the closest being "issuance of a PPL" which is $55, so maybe that's it now. I recall that the process was happily simple, and not overly lengthy. I've heard that TC Personnel Licensing is taking longer these days, though their service to me this year has been just fine.

I recall that going the other way was paralyzing. I sought an EASA PPL/CPL based upon my Canadian license, and the exams and fees, to be accomplished in more that one country made it not worth the effort to fly the same plane I'd been flying in Canada now on the Norwegian registry - so I didn't.

[maxeppc]

Welcome to Canada.

You can do it 2 ways:
1) based in your EASA license (the EASA License must be current for your Canadian PPL to be valid. You must complete the Pre Solo Test-Air Regulations and pay the licensing fee to TC. All in cost will be about $200.(no typo).
2) stand alone PPL. Need to do PPL written and flight test. Cost depends on how proficient you are to get recommended for the flight test. Cost on average $2000.

See CAR 425.26 (8) https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-servi ... ars#421_26

You can also check out my website freepilotgroundschool.ca.

I used to be the CFI at KBM Aviation. We processed quite a few foreign licenses. It's a pretty efficient training environment in Thunder Bay.

Thank you for your cents! Well, I think that option 2 is more reasonable. Going for 1) I need to keep my EASA License valid - it means traveling to Europe for medical renewal etc.

Welcome Max,

Norwegian friends of mine did this seven years ago when they came to pick up a Canadian registered plane for which I was responsible. Don't quote me, but I think I recall it was an application only process, costing $45. I can't find it in the Transport Canada list of fees at present, the closest being "issuance of a PPL" which is $55, so maybe that's it now. I recall that the process was happily simple, and not overly lengthy. I've heard that TC Personnel Licensing is taking longer these days, though their service to me this year has been just fine.

I recall that going the other way was paralyzing. I sought an EASA PPL/CPL based upon my Canadian license, and the exams and fees, to be accomplished in more that one country made it not worth the effort to fly the same plane I'd been flying in Canada now on the Norwegian registry - so I didn't.

Thank you! Anyway this cost is fine. But I will go for stand alone license. More freedom

[tuqi]

"I need to keep my EASA License valid - it means traveling to Europe for medical renewal etc."

I've been told the opposite by a Transport GA Safety Officer specialising in licensing. In extremis, an EASA medical can be revalidated/renewed in the States and the SEP can be revalidated by experience. Wiser, in any event, to obtain an independent Canadian licence. In fact, a valid single-engine rating on an unrestricted Canadian licence allows you to renew an expired EASA SEP by fulfilling the revalidation actions alone, ie no mandatory attendance at an EASA ATO or DTO. There aren't many differences between the EASA and Canadian PPL flight training syllabuses.

You shouldn't delay in making an appointment with a Canadian medical examiner for a category 3 medical certificate. There are about three dozen such examiners in Europe. Search at https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/2/came-meac/l.aspx

A common experience gap is instrument flying. Details in subsection 421.26(4) of the standards. Also note the Canadian night rating requirements are more stringent.

[photofly]

Can someone point to an official source that says the foreign medical has to be renewed, for someone who holds an "on the basis of" licence? It doesn't make much sense that you have to maintain both a foreign and Canadian medical validity.

[tuqi]

I agree. Since exercising the privileges of a foreign-based Canadian PPL requires a valid Canadian medical cert., iaw s. 404.03 in the Canadian regulations, it makes absolutely no sense to maintain the foreign medical.

[maxeppc]

Well, I have no official document that it has to be renewed but I have read that it Canadian will be valid until foreign is valid. That could be some misunderstanding from my side. Your thoughts make sense!

As an offtopic. I did some research on canadian syllabus for the training and now I am confused if I should start practicing once my ground school is finished or postpone everything until land in Canada. However the prices are so much different if I read that in Camada students usually need 60-80 hours.

[Bede]

I did some research on canadian syllabus for the training and now I am confused if I should start practicing once my ground school is finished or postpone everything until land in Canada.

Get studied up. I'd reference the AIM which is free on line. Everything else you'll already know.
Once you're here you can get right into flying.

However the prices are so much different if I read that in Camada students usually need 60-80 hours.

60-80 hours if you do a PPL from scratch, not if you need to convert. I'd estimate 5-10 hours dual to get ready for the flight test.

[photofly]

"I need to keep my EASA License valid - it means traveling to Europe for medical renewal etc."

The credits for applicants for a PPL who have been issued an ICAO foreign PPL are listed in 421.26(8). I don't see anything there about the foreign licence needing an accompanying valid medical certificate.

So despite this page (https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/licens ... ign-pilots) which says that TC only grants credit for foreign licences that are "medically valid" - you're fully entitled to the credits if you are "the holder of a Private or higher pilot licence -aeroplane issued by a Contracting State" - I don't see any justification for TC to arbitrarily require more stringent requirements. It might take an appeal to the TATC to get TC to agree, though. (Bede - any thoughts?)

In any caise, I would get the "on the basis of licence first. Then use that to brush up for a flight test and take the PPAER exam, at your leisure, and when you have passed both you can have the "issued on the basis of" endorsement removed, as described in 421.26(8)(c), on application to the minister.

As far as I can tell (one can never be sure what's lurking in the corner of some regulation) the only restriction on a licence issued on the basis of a foreign licence is that you cannot use to apply to a third country for a licence: you can't for instance use it to get an FAA PPL. Once you have the restriction removed, on passing the PPAER and PPL flight test, you can even do that.

[digits_]

10 years ago, it was a common interpretation in JAR countries that a license was not valid without a medical. Might be a good idea to look up if that's still the case under EASA.

[photofly]

10 years ago, it was a common interpretation in JAR countries that a license was not valid without a medical. Might be a good idea to look up if that's still the case under EASA.

The CARs refers to the "holder of a licence ... issued by a contracting state." It doesn't say it has to be a valid licence at any specific time, you merely need to hold it, which I interpret as requiring that the licence has been neither cancelled nor withdrawn (say, on the grounds of incompetence or as a penalty for some infraction.)

Noting the my interpretation is worth nothing, I still think requiring the licence to be "valid" medically is a step too far, and one obviously made redundant by the requirement for a Canadian medical certificate to validate the exercise of privileges of the Canadian pilot licence to be issued.

[digits_]

10 years ago, it was a common interpretation in JAR countries that a license was not valid without a medical. Might be a good idea to look up if that's still the case under EASA.

The CARs refers to the "holder of a licence ... issued by a contracting state." It doesn't say it has to be a valid licence at any specific time, you merely need to hold it, which I interpret as requiring that the licence has been neither cancelled nor withdrawn (say, on the grounds of incompetence or as a penalty for some infraction.)

Noting the my interpretation is worth nothing, I still think requiring the licence to be "valid" medically is a step too far, and one obviously made redundant by the requirement for a Canadian medical certificate to validate the exercise of privileges of the Canadian pilot licence to be issued.

Perhaps.

When EASA rules came into play I was following some of the legislation that was being issued. One of the interesting evolutions I noticed was that the final draft dropped all references to 'valid'. This was specifically for the medical though. But it heavily implied you can not have an invalid medical. You either hold a medical or you don't. I have a strong suspicion the same reasoning goes for EASA licenses, depending on the country that issued them.

Bottom line, I suspect that some countries would reply to the question: "does pilot A hold a valid CPL?" with "No, but he held one 2 years ago" for example.

Then again, this might not matter. It's likely up to TC to decide what paperwork they accept from EASA countries and what TC considers valid if so required.

[photofly]

10 years ago, it was a common interpretation in JAR countries that a license was not valid without a medical. Might be a good idea to look up if that's still the case under EASA.

The CARs refers to the "holder of a licence ... issued by a contracting state." It doesn't say it has to be a valid licence at any specific time, you merely need to hold it, which I interpret as requiring that the licence has been neither cancelled nor withdrawn (say, on the grounds of incompetence or as a penalty for some infraction.)

Noting the my interpretation is worth nothing, I still think requiring the licence to be "valid" medically is a step too far, and one obviously made redundant by the requirement for a Canadian medical certificate to validate the exercise of privileges of the Canadian pilot licence to be issued.

Perhaps.

When EASA rules came into play I was following some of the legislation that was being issued. One of the interesting evolutions I noticed was that the final draft dropped all references to 'valid'. This was specifically for the medical though. But it heavily implied you can not have an invalid medical. You either hold a medical or you don't. I have a strong suspicion the same reasoning goes for EASA licenses, depending on the country that issued them.

Bottom line, I suspect that some countries would reply to the question: "does pilot A hold a valid CPL?" with "No, but he held one 2 years ago" for example.

Then again, this might not matter. It's likely up to TC to decide what paperwork they accept from EASA countries and what TC considers valid if so required.

EASA Part-FCL.045 includes the text

(a) A valid licence and a valid medical certificate shall always be carried by the pilot when exercising the privileges of the licence.

Which implies very strongly that the validity of an EASA licence is independent of the validity of an EASA medical certificate.

It is up to TC to decide what paperwork they accept from EASA countries only so long as they obey the law, and the law says they MUST give you the credits listed in 421.26(8) if you hold an ICAO licence. It says "An applicant who is the holder of a Private or higher pilot licence -aeroplane issued by a Contracting State shall be considered ... to have met (etc.)", not "may be considered to have met", it clearly doesn't say "the holder of a ... licence and medical certificate". Even the word 'valid' doesn't appear in the regulation.

If I had an EASA licence and renewing my medical was any kind of significant hurdle in time (if I had, for instance, to return to Europe or go to the US to renew it) then I would certainly point out the wording of the rules to TC Licensing with my application for a Canadian PPL. If they issue a formal refusal to issue then they have to tell you the procedure to follow to have the decision reviewed, as stipulated in the Aeronautics Act §6.72(2)(d), and it might be worth going to the TATC.

Even if in the interim you get your EASA medical renewed and make a new application (which would succeed) the review of the original decision could still continue (as it did in Lanning vs. Minister of Transport) for a determination.

For reasons I can't quite put my finger on at the moment, I am keen to hear what the venerable Bede makes of all this.

[tuqi]

Dr TA Gillmore in Maple ON holds an authorisation from Transport Malta to perform EASA medical exams. The EASA single-engine piston (land) class rating can be revalidated by experience, though it isn't required for a foreign-based Canadian PPL. The refresher flight with an EASA flight or class rating instructor does not need to be done under the auspices of a Canadian operator certificate, ie it can be done by an itinerant instructor.

[maxeppc]

This topic is quite heavy with a lot of information. I think that I will finish PPL in my home country and when I will be finally in Canada, will go with cheaper conversion to keep it valid. However I will need to take some courses because of differences in syllabus for training,

[digits_]

EASA Part-FCL.045 includes the text

(a) A valid licence and a valid medical certificate shall always be carried by the pilot when exercising the privileges of the licence.

Which implies very strongly that the validity of an EASA licence is independent of the validity of an EASA medical certificate.

Agreed, however, this 'ruling' heavily implies that by default an invalid medical invalidates a pilot license:

https://www.easa.europa.eu/faq/47722

It talks about an exception to the rule for owner maintenance by a pilot. Implying the default is that a license can not be valid without a medical.

This is the reason why a new point (5) was introduced in AMC M.A.803 in 2016 (ED Decision 2016/011/R) stating: “not holding a valid medical examination does not invalidate the pilot licence (or equivalent) required for the purpose of the pilot-owner authorisation”. For Part-ML the same information can be found in AMC1 ML.A.803 (ED Decision 2020/002/R).

I'd be hesitant to consider my EASA license valid without an accompanying valid medical.

By the way, did you know that in some countries an EASA class 1 medical does not automatically allow you to use your PPL privileges once it expires?

[photofly]

I'd be hesitant to consider my EASA license valid without an accompanying valid medical.

Focusing on “valid” is a red herring - the word doesn’t appear in the regulations.

When your EASA medical expires, do you consider you are no longer the holder of an EASA licence?

[digits_]

I'd be hesitant to consider my EASA license valid without an accompanying valid medical.

Focusing on “valid” is a red herring - the word doesn’t appear in the regulations.

When your EASA medical expires, do you consider you are no longer the holder of an EASA licence?

I would consider myself holder of the license (edited for clarity)

I doubt TC would give you a foreign license validation though if you hold an EASA CPL with ratings and a medical that have expired for 10 years for example. But I suppose it's possible.

[photofly]

No, they won’t. But the condition for the issue of a FLVC requires the foreign licence to be “valid for the privileges requested”, which requires a medical from that foreign country (or an EASA state).

The conditions for the crediting of a foreign licence towards a TC PPL don’t use the word “valid”.