Looking for details on pay/sched. I know they're running old 600's from WJ. Think it will be a long term gig? They fired everyone a few years back.

PM me if you prefer.

CD

Curious about this as well.

Also wondering if anyone has info on the Convair freight gig - what's the pay like mainly.

I dunno. I’ll ask the ex-KF 727 guy I know next time I see him.

Just for your resume, Flightcraft is one word.

It's a charter company that's just starting out. Word is they are busy, but untill they nail down a contract or two I'd be weary of moving there myself. As for the Convair question, the pay scale is listed in the CBA.

Heard rumours of them going after LNG and Oil Patch workforce movement contracts on the Boeing side of the new charter op.

co-joe wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:37 am Just for your resume, Flightcraft is one word.

It's a charter company that's just starting out. Word is they are busy, but untill they nail down a contract or two I'd be weary of moving there myself. As for the Convair question, the pay scale is listed in the CBA.

Not sure if it works for you, but the negotech.labour.gc.ca link seems to be broken atm. You don't happen to have a copy of the cba you can share?

thepoors wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:18 pm

co-joe wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:37 am Just for your resume, Flightcraft is one word.

It's a charter company that's just starting out. Word is they are busy, but untill they nail down a contract or two I'd be weary of moving there myself. As for the Convair question, the pay scale is listed in the CBA.

Not sure if it works for you, but the negotech.labour.gc.ca link seems to be broken atm. You don't happen to have a copy of the cba you can share?

Most recent I could find.

Vico56 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:50 pm

thepoors wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:18 pm

co-joe wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:37 am Just for your resume, Flightcraft is one word.

It's a charter company that's just starting out. Word is they are busy, but untill they nail down a contract or two I'd be weary of moving there myself. As for the Convair question, the pay scale is listed in the CBA.

Not sure if it works for you, but the negotech.labour.gc.ca link seems to be broken atm. You don't happen to have a copy of the cba you can share?

Most recent I could find.

They signed a new agreement earlier this year. However, I don't think it is up on Negotech yet - http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=m ... 3aaa1f124e

With the current state of the industry where jobs are growing on trees, nobody should be even considering a job with a company which has such a deplorable reputation as Kelowna Flightcraft.

bcpilot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:18 am With the current state of the industry where jobs are growing on trees, nobody should be even considering a job with a company which has such a deplorable reputation as Kelowna Flightcraft.

KFC has a bad rep?

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:02 am

bcpilot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:18 am With the current state of the industry where jobs are growing on trees, nobody should be even considering a job with a company which has such a deplorable reputation as Kelowna Flightcraft.

KFC has a bad rep?

Unusually high number of lawsuits by former employees.

bcpilot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:54 am

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:02 am

bcpilot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:18 am With the current state of the industry where jobs are growing on trees, nobody should be even considering a job with a company which has such a deplorable reputation as Kelowna Flightcraft.

KFC has a bad rep?

Unusually high number of lawsuits by former employees.

That happens at lots of companies unfortunately.

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:02 am

bcpilot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:18 am With the current state of the industry where jobs are growing on trees, nobody should be even considering a job with a company which has such a deplorable reputation as Kelowna Flightcraft.

KFC has a bad rep?

Their HR Recruiters sure seem a mess. I didn’t have a very good experience, they strung me along for weeks. To me this a bad sign and makes me think they may not be a very good company to work for when the first contact with them doesn’t go well.

For someone trying to get into the industry it was somewhat disheartening after putting a ton of effort into applying and preparing for the interview they said would occur. Also took the time and money to travel and attend their career fair but after several weeks was never called back even though I was told I would be.

Tough to stay positive about the industry when you deal with companies who don’t have the decency to even call back when they say they will.

Maybe that is why they keep posting the same jobs. Maybe high turnover.

FordAve wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:24 pm

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:02 am

bcpilot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:18 am With the current state of the industry where jobs are growing on trees, nobody should be even considering a job with a company which has such a deplorable reputation as Kelowna Flightcraft.

KFC has a bad rep?

Their HR Recruiters sure seem a mess. I didn’t have a very good experience, they strung me along for weeks. To me this a bad sign and makes me think they may not be a very good company to work for when the first contact with them doesn’t go well.

For someone trying to get into the industry it was somewhat disheartening after putting a ton of effort into applying and preparing for the interview they said would occur. Also took the time and money to travel and attend their career fair but after several weeks was never called back even though I was told I would be.

Tough to stay positive about the industry when you deal with companies who don’t have the decency to even call back when they say they will.

Maybe that is why they keep posting the same jobs. Maybe high turnover.

Anywhere that’s always advertising for a particular role or several roles 24/7, 365 days/yr is a very bad sign. I don’t know if they do or not, but that’s a good indication of revolving doors which = bad employer.

That place was and still is a giant cancer of a operation. Granted, Im speaking from a maintenance perspective, but I've also had the misfortune of working there and I'd never go back.

Which brings us to their never ending ads - their reputation precedes them and they have a hell of a time attracting experience. Throw on top of that the cost of living in Kelowna and KF's brutal entry AME payscale of $28 a/hr...well, they dont help themselves.

On the pilot side they are unionized so they have seemed genuinly more content so it might be better than the maint dept.

Search this site under kelowna flightcraft. Lots of info

Pat Richard wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:44 pm That place was and still is a giant cancer of a operation. Granted, Im speaking from a maintenance perspective, but I've also had the misfortune of working there and I'd never go back.

Which brings us to their never ending ads - their reputation precedes them and they have a hell of a time attracting experience. Throw on top of that the cost of living in Kelowna and KF's brutal entry AME payscale of $28 a/hr...well, they dont help themselves.

On the pilot side they are unionized so they have seemed genuinly more content so it might be better than the maint dept.

Search this site under kelowna flightcraft. Lots of info

I know lots who have come and gone from there, I wonder what area of Canadas aviation game has the highest turnover?? You see airlines advertising enough but the one that stands out to me is business jet work… I could be wrong of course

I spoke to several ex maintenance people who had very little good to say about KFC. Then I did a maint contract there out of curiosity and everyone is looking over their shoulder. Many stories of long time employees getting letgo for no apparent reason.

Pacqing wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:22 am I spoke to several ex maintenance people who had very little good to say about KFC. Then I did a maint contract there out of curiosity and everyone is looking over their shoulder. Many stories of long time employees getting letgo for no apparent reason.

I know a few guys that walked away from the industry immediately after working there. It could be coincidence, I’ve never worked there, just heard stories.

Pacqing wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:22 am I spoke to several ex maintenance people who had very little good to say about KFC. Then I did a maint contract there out of curiosity and everyone is looking over their shoulder. Many stories of long time employees getting letgo for no apparent reason.

That is completely true.

There was a very curious coincedence of high time, late 50's guys(topped out pay scale/dont run as hard as 20 year olds), getting punted out the door when "layoff" time came around. Also, anybody who had any time off due to WCB since the last "layoffs" would generally also get canned.

I'd never worked at a place where I saw so many literally injured guys, popping pain pills in the lunch room, but terrified of saying/claiming how their injury happened. They were of course workplace related, and I witnessed many of them(injured myself also), but the example of what happens to those who report had been set.

The quality has suffered as such also, but with next to nowhere else to go, a lot of airlines(Icelandair, lol) continue to flock there after given sweet bs promises from management. The frustration I witnessed from reps about nobody working on their airplanes was comical with its frequency. Third tier operators were constantly dealing with this as WJ commanded whatever talent KF had left.

Anyway, way too many more "memories" I could go into, and some "maintenance practices" that were outright negligant because it saved a few bucks but I wont go into specifics. This is a place that will put 10x effort into sleuthing "who's talking" and making up fairy tales than admiting fault and addressing chronic systemic issues.

Basically, stay well clear.

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:06 pm

Pat Richard wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:44 pm That place was and still is a giant cancer of a operation. Granted, Im speaking from a maintenance perspective, but I've also had the misfortune of working there and I'd never go back.

Which brings us to their never ending ads - their reputation precedes them and they have a hell of a time attracting experience. Throw on top of that the cost of living in Kelowna and KF's brutal entry AME payscale of $28 a/hr...well, they dont help themselves.

On the pilot side they are unionized so they have seemed genuinly more content so it might be better than the maint dept.

Search this site under kelowna flightcraft. Lots of info

I know lots who have come and gone from there, I wonder what area of Canadas aviation game has the highest turnover?? You see airlines advertising enough but the one that stands out to me is business jet work… I could be wrong of course

I really don't know. I think maybe it might be more of a case of "what geographic are" sees the highest turnover?

Aviation maintenance has never suffered from one sector poaching, or enjoying a stampede, from one category to another. Theyre all shitty in their own way.

Helicopters - get flight pay, but have to work in bug infested or miserable outdoor conditions. My experience was working all day/night outside, out of truck, watching other mechs popping uppers to get awake. You worked half the year but it generally compared to fixed wing on annual income.

Fixed wing - barely half my time was indoors on M2 aircraft. So basically my experience in helicopters, albeit with less tempermental equipment.
Almost always 12hr afternoon/graveyard shifts. Best schedule being 4 on/off, worst being 3 weeks on/off. You basically started tired, having to commute at early hours to catch flights then do a late/graveyard shift. When you left you were getting off shift late at night and had to be on a flight around 7 AM. Forever tired.

Overhaul - moderate amount of time spent there, still had some crazy shifts. Best was afternoon 8 hour shift, worst was 11 hour 12 day stretches, no days off. Constantly on your feet and overtime being demanded constantly. Take a guess what company that was/is?

Ultimately, it comes down to the least shitiest you can tolerate.

That being said, AME's have shown a huge appetite to take it up the arse so the level is quite high. Other trades think we are as a whole, insane.

Pat Richard wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:40 am

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:06 pm

Pat Richard wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:44 pm That place was and still is a giant cancer of a operation. Granted, Im speaking from a maintenance perspective, but I've also had the misfortune of working there and I'd never go back.

Which brings us to their never ending ads - their reputation precedes them and they have a hell of a time attracting experience. Throw on top of that the cost of living in Kelowna and KF's brutal entry AME payscale of $28 a/hr...well, they dont help themselves.

On the pilot side they are unionized so they have seemed genuinly more content so it might be better than the maint dept.

Search this site under kelowna flightcraft. Lots of info

I know lots who have come and gone from there, I wonder what area of Canadas aviation game has the highest turnover?? You see airlines advertising enough but the one that stands out to me is business jet work… I could be wrong of course

I really don't know. I think maybe it might be more of a case of "what geographic are" sees the highest turnover?

Aviation maintenance has never suffered from one sector poaching, or enjoying a stampede, from one category to another. Theyre all shitty in their own way.

Helicopters - get flight pay, but have to work in bug infested or miserable outdoor conditions. My experience was working all day/night outside, out of truck, watching other mechs popping uppers to get awake. You worked half the year but it generally compared to fixed wing on annual income.

Fixed wing - barely half my time was indoors on M2 aircraft. So basically my experience in helicopters, albeit with less tempermental equipment.
Almost always 12hr afternoon/graveyard shifts. Best schedule being 4 on/off, worst being 3 weeks on/off. You basically started tired, having to commute at early hours to catch flights then do a late/graveyard shift. When you left you were getting off shift late at night and had to be on a flight around 7 AM. Forever tired.

Overhaul - moderate amount of time spent there, still had some crazy shifts. Best was afternoon 8 hour shift, worst was 11 hour 12 day stretches, no days off. Constantly on your feet and overtime being demanded constantly. Take a guess what company that was/is?

Ultimately, it comes down to the least shitiest you can tolerate.

That being said, AME's have shown a huge appetite to take it up the arse so the level is quite high. Other trades think we are as a whole, insane.

90% of my career has been in helicopters however I have dabbled in almost every other area in the fixed wing world as well. Helicopters (in Canada) you are indeed outside lots all year round, however there are also overhaul shops to work at. IMO rotary doesn’t have as much turnover in Canada because of the cult mentality. I think GA fixed wing is way up there in turnover because of the low pay and crappy customers.
But someone mentioned Management companies and being on call as being up there as well in another post I started, that I would say for not only technicians but pilots alike the turnover is extremely high, if not the highest. I haven’t seen more job ads anywhere else in aviation in Canada (helicopters or fixed wing alike) for pilots and ames as well as the other supporting roles as I have in business jet work.

There definetly was a cult mentality in fling wing when I did it. "marines of the aviation industry" was constantly being spoken. There was a underlying theme, I think, for rotary guys to pat each others backs, trying to convince one another on how great they and their lives were.

Ironically, almost all of them were suffering from Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome or were dealing with a spouse screwing around. To be fair, it exists in fixed wing also, but to lesser extents. Any job with long rotations suffers similarly.

I've never worked M1 at the flying club or flight school level but I have heard repeadetly that private owners are the biggest pricks to deal with. Always wanting shit done for free. I also have never touched corporate although I have shared hangars with them. They seemed to show up at the most bizarre times and were obviously on call around the clock.

So, lol, wheres the good areas in a/c maint again? We havent even touched on pensions, benefits, paid sick days, time off in leiu of OT, etc, etc.

Yeah. What garbage business

Pat Richard wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:18 pm There definetly was a cult mentality in fling wing when I did it. "marines of the aviation industry" was constantly being spoken. There was a underlying theme, I think, for rotary guys to pat each others backs, trying to convince one another on how great they and their lives were.

Ironically, almost all of them were suffering from Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome or were dealing with a spouse screwing around. To be fair, it exists in fixed wing also, but to lesser extents. Any job with long rotations suffers similarly.

I've never worked M1 at the flying club or flight school level but I have heard repeadetly that private owners are the biggest pricks to deal with. Always wanting shit done for free. I also have never touched corporate although I have shared hangars with them. They seemed to show up at the most bizarre times and were obviously on call around the clock.

So, lol, wheres the good areas in a/c maint again? We havent even touched on pensions, benefits, paid sick days, time off in leiu of OT, etc, etc.

Yeah. What garbage business

At least in the helicopter world in Canada you can pretty much name your schedule and rate depending on supply and demand (and of course your endorsements and experience). It’s become a seasonal racket in the past five or ten years, not really a viable full time gig anymore (in Canada). It’s pretty sad because prior to the downturn in 2008 there was so much work you could make your nut in three months and take the rest of the year off with the amount of flight pay back then.
The management world of business flight is extremely strange in Canada, it’s probably the smallest niche in Canadas aviation.
The ames from what I’ve seen have a schedule but are also on call no matter the circumstances. The guys I know that do it aren’t the happiest people and the pay sucks, but for the most part that’s all they know. Pilots at those companies last a few years mostly and leave after their bond is up because of the beating it takes on their life. The perk is the training they get, however useless those types are is up to the individual signing the 24 month bond, which of course is the companies leverage to work their new trained guys at 130% for said training bond.
I have done some GA work (maintenance only) for friends and family, there’s a super cheap mentality in that community too. They will cry over a 50 hour where 2 spark plugs are scrap but go out that weekend and bury a $200k truck in the mud and shrug it off.
Airlines and heavies, no thanks lol, low pay and terrible schedule on nights. It’s a different industry than I remember when I first got in this that’s for damn sure.
I don’t think it’s going to get any better anytime soon for the industry unfortunately, in fact I think it’s going to get much worse.

Hello all,

What's the pay, schedule, bond (if any) and cpt upgrade timeline for a Convair FO at KF Aero? I can't seem to find the latest collective agreement.

Thank you!