Question on the new pay rates at West Jet
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Question on the new pay rates at West Jet
It sound like the new agreement has been ratified by the pilots. I was just wondering what the new pay scale is. I understand alot of what is new is the change to the amount of options you choose from.
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Kenny Blankenship
- Rank 1
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:49 pm
I for one am thinking of comming to westjet, unfortunatly westjet doesn't appear to be thinking about me comming there.
got over 5000tt majorty turbine over half PIC
1400Multi turbinr PIc
and i'm a damn good guy
why me phone no ring??
KB
got over 5000tt majorty turbine over half PIC
1400Multi turbinr PIc
and i'm a damn good guy
why me phone no ring??
KB
And Now For My Most painfull Eliminations of the day!!!
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complexintentions
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2186
- Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:49 pm
- Location: of my pants is unknown.
I considered it. There's 2 seconds of my life I can never get back!Ryan Coke wrote:Are you (or others on here) thinking about coming to WJ?
Just teasing.I've heard salary numbers like the following, give or take a bit:
-1st Year FO: appox 70k
-4th Year FO: approx 93k
-Maxed-out Captain: approx 160k
Are these figures anywhere accurate? Don't be shy ya'll!
I’m still waiting for my white male privilege membership card. Must have gotten lost in the mail.
I'll post some info, because I believe everyone thinking about their career options has the right to know what the details are. I just don't want to get into some silly flame war.
Hopefully most people are aware of the 4 main parts of WJ compensation;
1)base pay
2)employee share plan (ESP)-20% of salary matched-voluntary. Basically an optional 20% raise.
3)Profit share--bonus money
4)Options. This is where it gets complicated.
Some changes--base pay is based on 80 hr guarantee, blocking window is 80-85, anything over 80 paid at straight time. O/T above 85 or into min. guaranteed days off.
-Training days are now paid. You have the option of including training as part of your block, or training outside your block and getting paid extra (4.5/day at straight time).
-Guaranteed days off increase to 15 next year. So max you can be blocked in a month is 15/16 days depending on month.
-initial training is now paid at year 1 rate from day one. No lower training pay for new hires.
What this means:
Year 1 & 2 FO. Base pay unchanged. This is due to the fact that our starting base pay (not including other compensation) is already higher than than the average of our competitors, in particular AC and Jazz. So 40k year 1, 50k year 2. With full ESP participation, y1=48k, y2=60k. Add in 2 hrs/month=24 (blocked over 80)+45 hrs (train outside block) is 70 hours extra pay, so add 3k to yr 1 and 3.5k to yr 2. Very easily, yr 1 50+k, yr2 63k, not including any OT, profit share, or options.
For first 2 years, you get 5k expected value (Black & Scholes, or BS)of options, this is where it gets confusing. Basically, though this is the predicted value, they may be worth more, or less than that number depending on what the stick price does, and when you exercise them. The details of this could be a long post of its own, so I'll leave it at this for now.
yr 3 FO--this is like AC's version of formula pay, I suppose. Now you can take the BS option value ($29k for FO's y3 and up) and take up to 75% of that and add it to your base pay. y3 base then is 79k. That higher base pay then affects your ESP eligibility, your share of profit share, and hourly rate for extra time, OT, and training outside block. So 79k, + 16k (ESP), + 5.5k (70 hours extra time-see above) = 100.5k, before profit share, OT, or options. You still get 7k BS value of options.
yr1 Capt.w/75% cash option--base 105k, esp 21k, 70 hrs extra time 7.5k=133.5 k, not including OT, PS or option value. Captain options value is 10k in this scenario, or 40k if you select 100% options.
yr10 capt w/75% option--base 153.5, esp 30k, extra time 11k= 194.5k.
With anything after yr 2 FO, you have the option of keeping 100% options with the lower base pay, if you choose. Obviously much more risk, but if you think the stock is going to do substantially better than the BS value, then it might be worth it.
Feel free to ask questions.
Hopefully most people are aware of the 4 main parts of WJ compensation;
1)base pay
2)employee share plan (ESP)-20% of salary matched-voluntary. Basically an optional 20% raise.
3)Profit share--bonus money
4)Options. This is where it gets complicated.
Some changes--base pay is based on 80 hr guarantee, blocking window is 80-85, anything over 80 paid at straight time. O/T above 85 or into min. guaranteed days off.
-Training days are now paid. You have the option of including training as part of your block, or training outside your block and getting paid extra (4.5/day at straight time).
-Guaranteed days off increase to 15 next year. So max you can be blocked in a month is 15/16 days depending on month.
-initial training is now paid at year 1 rate from day one. No lower training pay for new hires.
What this means:
Year 1 & 2 FO. Base pay unchanged. This is due to the fact that our starting base pay (not including other compensation) is already higher than than the average of our competitors, in particular AC and Jazz. So 40k year 1, 50k year 2. With full ESP participation, y1=48k, y2=60k. Add in 2 hrs/month=24 (blocked over 80)+45 hrs (train outside block) is 70 hours extra pay, so add 3k to yr 1 and 3.5k to yr 2. Very easily, yr 1 50+k, yr2 63k, not including any OT, profit share, or options.
For first 2 years, you get 5k expected value (Black & Scholes, or BS)of options, this is where it gets confusing. Basically, though this is the predicted value, they may be worth more, or less than that number depending on what the stick price does, and when you exercise them. The details of this could be a long post of its own, so I'll leave it at this for now.
yr 3 FO--this is like AC's version of formula pay, I suppose. Now you can take the BS option value ($29k for FO's y3 and up) and take up to 75% of that and add it to your base pay. y3 base then is 79k. That higher base pay then affects your ESP eligibility, your share of profit share, and hourly rate for extra time, OT, and training outside block. So 79k, + 16k (ESP), + 5.5k (70 hours extra time-see above) = 100.5k, before profit share, OT, or options. You still get 7k BS value of options.
yr1 Capt.w/75% cash option--base 105k, esp 21k, 70 hrs extra time 7.5k=133.5 k, not including OT, PS or option value. Captain options value is 10k in this scenario, or 40k if you select 100% options.
yr10 capt w/75% option--base 153.5, esp 30k, extra time 11k= 194.5k.
With anything after yr 2 FO, you have the option of keeping 100% options with the lower base pay, if you choose. Obviously much more risk, but if you think the stock is going to do substantially better than the BS value, then it might be worth it.
Feel free to ask questions.
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McDoo the Irish Navigator
- Rank 2
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:04 pm
Good post Ryan
Good posting Ryan;
Some of the most accurate and easiest to understand #s on any forum.
Just to throw my own example into the mix, as a third year Captain, if I include my ESP, and 10 days of training outside my blocking window, my pay will be $ 144,900.
Options, profit sharing, and any flying over 80 hrs per month will raise my income accordingly.
McDoo.
Some of the most accurate and easiest to understand #s on any forum.
Just to throw my own example into the mix, as a third year Captain, if I include my ESP, and 10 days of training outside my blocking window, my pay will be $ 144,900.
Options, profit sharing, and any flying over 80 hrs per month will raise my income accordingly.
McDoo.
Just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean no-one's out to get you.
(1) Base pay = sub-standardHopefully most people are aware of the 4 main parts of WJ compensation;
1)base pay
2)employee share plan (ESP)-20% of salary matched-voluntary. Basically an optional 20% raise.
3)Profit share--bonus money
4)Options. This is where it gets complicated.
(2)ESP = Rolling with the poor stocks performance
(3) Profit share = Non-existent
(4) Complicated? Another great WJ gimmick
(5) NO PENSION PLAN
The lack of pension plan allowed me to put away a lot of 'non-wja' rrsp this year and my put a large chunk on my mortgage. The 20% pays much more than a pension ever will. I had an under performing pension at the last place I worked, it did a lot better after I took it out and invested it on my own.
....and the crappy base pay is $84.00 per hour for this low risk FO.
....and the crappy base pay is $84.00 per hour for this low risk FO.
Bede, I'm not sure if WJ700 is a y3 or y4 FO, but if he chooses the max cash/min options version, y3 is over $82/hr, y4 is just under $86/hr--that is flat base salary. That is not including the optional 20% raise via the ESP, or the more non-guaranteed parts of the compensation like options and profit share.
A plumber makes way more too, the gas fitter in my house last week made $400 for 45 minutes of work and he had just bought a 700K house in YYC... so what's your point? Can you tell me what I'd make at AC in year three?Gear Up wrote:Sorry guys but I have to say.......
A brick layer makes more then that and he's able to work his own hours.
Gear Up!
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cedar tree
- Rank 3
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:18 pm
Sounds like a nice jump in pay. I have to admit, it sure makes the 5 or so years in the right seat look more attractive. It appears that WJ is the airline of choice if a pilot were to decide on flying for an airline. What does the current business plan (annual report) include as far as expansion? My question, is why not Westjet?
Intellivision made me a pilot.
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Flightlevels
- Rank 7
- Posts: 703
- Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:16 pm
I beg to differ...but I'm not going to engage in what I made in the last year compared to other jobs...there is also a day off guarantee now in place of 15 days off per month. I averaged this last year anyway. I have made WELL over sixfigures consecutively in the last 4 yrs. best office in the world! compared to a bricklayer if you want to go that way with the thread, and I make my own hours at home!...lol.Gear Up wrote:Sorry guys but I have to say.......
A brick layer makes more then that and he's able to work his own hours.
Gear Up!
Gear Up wrote:Sorry guys but I have to say.......
A brick layer makes more then that and he's able to work his own hours.
Gear Up!
Yup and at the end of the day, when asked what he did, he can reply; laid bricks, like yesterday and tomarrow.
Me on the otherhand, I'll gladly take my 84$/hr. and check in for my two day layover in OGG/HNL tomarrow! I'll be thinkin' of the well off bricklayer while sitting on waikiki beach on the weekend...for a while anyways
cheers,
jj
On average 16 days for me. Most Jr. Capt around 3.5 yrs. approx.Bede wrote:Well done WJ folks. That seems like a nice compensation package. On average, how many days a month do you work? How long has the most juinior captain been with the company?
Hope it helps.
cheers,
jj
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Jaques Strappe
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:34 pm
- Location: YYZ
Well Done guys!
I hope all the pilots at WestJet are happy with the new agreement. It sounds like a decent package but I am not sure how the pension thing factors in. That could be debated forever as evryone has a different interpretation and opinion.
The thing to remember for everyone is that when a pilot group succeeds at any airline, we all succeed and for that I am very happy that the guys at WestJet are happy with their package.
Congrats!
I hope all the pilots at WestJet are happy with the new agreement. It sounds like a decent package but I am not sure how the pension thing factors in. That could be debated forever as evryone has a different interpretation and opinion.
The thing to remember for everyone is that when a pilot group succeeds at any airline, we all succeed and for that I am very happy that the guys at WestJet are happy with their package.
Congrats!
Standby for new atis message
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The Hammer
- Rank 6
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- Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:46 am
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cedar tree
- Rank 3
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:18 pm
