Summer flight cancellations due to pilot shortage?

[Dockjock]

I've heard tons about how short AC and Jazz are of pilots. Particularly on the 320 in AC's case. Also, I hear the next equipment bid is being delayed so it can show the 777 and once pilots have bid for it, they can get the ball rolling for the early '07 delivery.
Hiring has been going pretty steady, but of the people I know that have been hired since summer, probably only about 25% of them are actually trained up and on the line flying. Most are sitting around for months at a time, bored out of their minds, just waiting for crewsked to call.
What is AC doing to rectify this training backlog? From the outside it appears, nothing...just going as fast as they can, which isn't very fast at all.
So when this all comes to a head and airplanes are actually on the ground sitting idle due to lack of crew, what happens then? Outsource training, buy more sims, send crew overseas for sim training...?

[Jaques Strappe]

Dockjock

AC can't do anything at the moment because they are getting caught up in their own demise, that being the pay group. Negotiations are starting for the 2006 wage re-opener and I can only hope that ACPA sees this as a great bargaining tool but alas......I am probably dreaming.

Until the pay group is abolished, they can only hire into the Embraer F/O and RP positions. During the last hire in 1995, new hires were going directly into the 767 right seat as should be the case during this hiring boom.

The pay group has to go in my opinion, this would be a great opportunity to just that.

[Slugger]

Jacques,

As somebody in the the PG, I can't wait for the next bid to get out of it. I was one of the last recalls and found that I could have stayed where I was making more money, until they trained all the newbies. This bid, IMHO is going to be a big one showing 777's. Everybody is going to move up. My choice will be EMJ Captain, Junior 320 F/O, or very Junior 767 F/O. I know which way I am going. Myself(hired October 2000) and the people who were hired the same time saw no movement. Now and for the next couple of years, there is going to be nothing but movement.
Congrats to those who have gotten hired. Enjoy the ride. Good luck to those who have interviews. Hope to see you on the line.

Slugger

[Dockjock]

So until the wage negotiations are completed it's status quo? The training backlog, pay issues or not, seems to be a really big hurt on the horizon. Record load factors across the board, busy summer coming up, expansion- the profits are ripe for the picking...if only there were pilots to fly the planes.

[Dockjock]

dp

[Bede]

Just curious, how long have the junior EMB skippers been around for? I heard with this next bid, some newhires might actually be able to bid it.

[Lost in Saigon]

The last bid showed 132 YYZ EMJ Captains. The bottom 12 were all from the Dec 2000 course.

The last guy is 2918 out of 3066 on the Jan 2006 seniority list. Of course there are more being hired every month.

[rjer1]

how many are going to be hired in the coming months>?

[Long Keel]

Just curious, how long have the junior EMB skippers been around for? I heard with this next bid, some newhires might actually be able to bid it.

They may in fact hold it, but it wouldn't be that wise a move until they are off probation. If less than 3 months away from probation ending, and they bid delayed course it may not be a bad idea.

[Big M.A.C.]

So with all this projected growth once AC gets it's ducks ina row, I guess the best thing would be to not accept a job at Jazz and ride it out at my current part 121 (= airline in the u.s.) on the CRJ-200 where I have a nice schedule with my wife (who is also a F.O.) 4 on 3 off!

So... who's gonna bit..... let her rip!

[Long Keel]

Big MAC,

Only apply to Jazz if you would be happy with it as your final career. If you want AC, apply there and avoid Jazz. Jazz is a fine career, but if it is a stepping stone, and not a destination, you may be disappointed to change your current situation.

[YULdude]

AC was talking to ACPA about putting new hires on the 320. ACPA had a few stipulations. A few being 1. get ride of the PG 2. Fix art 25 etc...

What happened was the 747 wet lease proposal by AC.

When this happened, ACPA walked away from the talks re:320 and said "no deal on 320 unless 747 wet leased is cancelled, and give it to us in writing!"

AC said "Don't worry, those 747's are not available anymore" but they still didn't put it in writing, so ACPA said "sorry, no way!"

That's why there is still no bid, and AC is in a world of hurt come this summer. Masters of their own destiny!

[gelbisch]

Fix art 25...

What is this?

[Martin Tamme]

What is this?

It's Article 25 of the Colletive Agreement; the root of all evil and the reason why the PG was created.

[wallypilot]

what's PG?

[Lost in Saigon]

"Article 25" is just the section of the AC contract that deals with Pilot Position Assignment. It.....
1) sets out the all the rules of bidding and assignment
2) is very complicated
3) and usually favours the company.

Example: You can be awarded a higher position, but they don't have to train you or pay you, until much later, at the companies discretion.

It allowed AC to keep a guy on the RJ long after he was awarded a higher position. After a long time, some of these pilots managed to get "bypass pay" for awhile. But the minute they were "reduced", they snapped back to RJ pay while junior pilots stayed on higher paying positions because it suited the company.

PG is a "LETTER OF UNDERSTANDING" ammendment to the contract, which was designed to increase the pay of RJ F/O's who got stuck on the RJ. This happened during all the reductions and layoffs associated with the restructuring of AC. Basically all the junior pilots have their pay lumped together and all get paid the same. (So RP's get a pay cut while RJ and EMJ F/O's get a pay raise)

It was also suppossed to make it easier to recall laid off pilots because they would all be paid the same.

But it is not working out as planned. It is actually hurting AC now with increased training costs and vacancies on the A320. Soon the RJ's will be all gone but the PG LOU has no "sunset clause". On the plus side, EMJ F/O's get a slightly higher pay rate once they go on formula pay after 2 years on the line. (assuming they don''t bid off the EMJ)



LETTER OF UNDERSTANDING NO. 59
Between
Air Canada
And
Air Canada Pilots Association
Position Group (PG)

This Letter of Understanding outlines pay and training parameters as they relate to Embraer
170/190 First Officer, CRJ First Officer, B767 Relief Pilot, A340 Relief Pilot and B747 Relief Pilot,
pilot positions within the Position Group.

L59.01 The Position Group includes the following:
.01 CL-65 First Officer
.02 E-170/190 First Officer
.03 B-767 Relief Pilot
.04 A-340 Relief Pilot
.05 B-747 Relief Pilot
(and B777 RP)

L59.02 Unless otherwise indicated, the provisions of this LOU will only apply to those pilots who, as of June 1, 2004, are:

.01 surplus under the provisions of Article 25 and will not be furloughed prior to the
posting of Equipment Bid 04-01; or
.02 currently furloughed as at June 1, 2004 and will be recalled in future; or,
.03 future new hire pilots.

L59.03 Position Group Freeze:

.01 Pilots may be frozen from the award to any other position within the Position
Group on their awarded base. This shall be known as the Position Group freeze.

02 The Company may release pilots from the Position Group Freeze based on
consistent economic principles with due regard to seniority. Pilots released by the
Company from the Position Group Freeze will not be frozen from the award to a
position higher than the Position Group positions.

.03 Reinstatement Rights will override the Position Group Freeze.
.04 Notwithstanding the Position Group Freeze, five (5) years after being awarded to
an equipment status in the Position Group, a pilot will be permitted to move to
another equipment status within the Position Group, but may be frozen from the
award to any other position for a period of thirty (30) months.
.05 Recall and new hire pilots will enter the Company via a position in the Position
Group.

.06 Unless otherwise amended by the provisions of the Position Group, all provisions
of Article 25 will apply.

L59.04 Position Group Pay

.01 Pilots in the Position Group will be part of a wage pool. The wage pool will be
used to develop a common day and night Position Group pay rate across a
seniority range of 12 years. 92% of Overseas pay on the 767 and A340 RP
positions, and 5% Overseas and Nav-aid pay on the A320 will be rolled into the
wage pool to determine the Position Group pay rates. RP pilots in year three (3)
of service will no longer be on flat salary and will be paid at the year three (3)
Position Group hourly rate. The maximum year three (3) monthly flat salary
divided by 78 will be used as the RP pay rate to determine the Position Group
year three (3) hourly rate.

.02 For the first six months of this LOU, the Position Group pay rate will be pro-rated
based on the number of QPOS pilots in each Position Group position and will be
recalculated bi-monthly. Either the Company or the Association may require that
the method of calculation be changed during this trial period.
Note: The method of calculation of the payroll for pilots in the Position Group
shall be such that the total payroll for all pilots within the Position Group
will be cost neutral and no less than what the payroll of all positions
within the Position Group would have been without the implementation of
the Position Group.

.03 Based on the following number of QPOS positions in the wage pool, the Position
Group pay rates will be in accordance with the following table for the period
commencing July 2nd, 2004, and ending August 30th, 2004:

QPOS #
A340 RP 12
B767 RP 12
CRJ FO 94
EMB FO 0
A320 FO 51
LCC FO 14
Total 183
Position Group Pay Rate
Year Day Night ½ day, ½ night
3 60.36 64.21 62.29
4 66.73 71.86 69.30
5 69.92 75.24 72.58
6 73.23 78.75 75.99
7 76.43 82.14 79.29
8 79.75 85.66 82.71
9 82.99 89.09 86.04
10 86.25 92.54 89.40
11 87.51 93.78 90.65
12 88.79 95.08 91.94

L59.05 Position Group Implementation Provisions:

.01 Definitions: For the purposes of implementing the provisions of this LOU the
following definitions shall apply.

.01 Group A Pilots: All surplus pilots subsequent to Equipment Bid 03-02 and
not furloughed prior to Bid 04-01.

.02 Group B Pilots: All pilots holding APOS or QPOS CL-65 First Officer, and
who are not surplus prior to Equipment Bid 04-01.

.03 Group C Pilots: All other pilots not included in either Group A or Group B.

.02 Implementation:

.01 A Group A pilot that is QPOS A320 FO or QPOS LCC FO will be part of
the Position Group until such time as the pilot is trained or pay activated
to a position higher than those positions contained in the Position Group
as a result of an award on Equipment Bid 04-01, or subsequent bids. A
Group A pilot that is QPOS A320 FO or QPOS LCC FO who is awarded
an A320 FO or LCC FO position, shall remain in the Position Group for
an additional 8 months after the award, at which time the pilot shall be
paid at rates of the qualified position.

.02 Pilots who are QPOS YWG A320 First Officers and who are Group A or B
pilots, will be transferred after 90 days from the closing of Bid 04-01 to their
newly awarded base to fly their Qualified Equipment and Status until
trained.

.03 A Group B Pilot will be part of the Position Group wage pool until such
time as the pilot is trained or pay activated to a position with a higher pay
rate than that of the Position Group wage pool. A Group B Pilot that is
shown as APOS CL-65 First Officer prior to Bid 04-01, and who was
never trained to the CL-65 First Officer position, and who on a
subsequent bid, is awarded the equipment status in which the pilot is
currently qualified, will remain in the Position Group for an additional 8
months after the award, at which time the pilot shall be paid at the rates
of the qualified position.

.04 Group B or C Pilots will be temporarily a part of the Position Group wage
pool at any time the Position Group pay rate is greater than the pay rate
for the position of a Group B or C pilot.

.05 Pilots who are on a Leave of Absence, and who were subsequently
furloughed will be considered as recall pilots for the purposes of the
Position Group. Such pilots, after exhausting their recall bypass option,
and who subsequently request a Leave of Absence, will be assigned a
position in the Position Group as a recall pilot prior to being returned to a
Leave of Absence. This position shall be the “awarded position at his
Designated Base at the time such leave began as entitled by his seniority”
for the purpose of Article 25.15.03.02, and shall determine his designated
base for the purposes of Article 25.15.03.02 & .03.

.03 Position Group Implementation Freeze:

.01 The new hire provisions in Article 25.17 will be deleted.

.02 Group B and C Pilots will not be subject to the Position Group freeze, but
will be subject to normal Article 25 freezes.

.03 Assignment of a recall pilot to a Position Group position will be subject to
a return to work protocol as established by the Association and the
Company.

.04 New hire pilots will be assigned positions within the Position Group as
determined by the Company.

.04 Reactivation of Group “A” Pilots:

.01 Notwithstanding the provisions of Article 25 the parties agree to the
following provisions to assist in reactivating all Group A Pilots on Bid 04-
01.

.02 On bid 04-01, Group A pilots will be protected on their designated base
in accordance with the provisions of Article 25.07.01.02. Pilots with a RIR
to a position on that base, or pilots moving on a reduction under Article
25.07.02.05, 25.07.02.07, & 25.07.02.08, will have access to the base
ahead of Group A Pilots.

.03 All Group A Pilots will be deemed active, and their SPB will be utilized for
the purposes of Equipment Bid 04-01. All YYZ & YUL surplus pilots will
be returned to their designated base and will bid from the CL-65 F/O
position. Group A Pilots from YVR & YWG bases will bid from the YYZ
CL-65 F/O position and will be granted RIR’s to the lowest position in the
First Officer and Second Officer/Relief Pilot status on their designated
base. All RIR’s granted to Group A Pilots will be removed upon return to
their designated base.

.04 CL-65 F/O positions on Equipment Bid 04-01 in YYZ and YUL may be
adjusted to allow all original YYZ and YUL Group A Pilots to return to
their designated base and to allow Group A Pilots from other bases
unable to return to their designated base the option of a paid move to
either YYZ or YUL.

.05 Should Group A Pilots be unable to return to their designated base on
Bid 04-01, their RIR’s will be valid until December 31, 2005. However,
the base protection under article 25.07.01.02 would no longer apply.

.06 Group B & C pilots who previously were forced from their base on Bid
03-01 or Bid 03-02 will acquire any RIR’s given to a Group A pilot.

.07 All Pilots who are inactive due to Leave of Absence may elect to change
their base designation as a result of a previous RIR in accordance with
article 25.08.


IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties hereto have signed this Letter of Understanding this
______ day of ________________, 2004.