PPL/CPL Training Programs

[Aether]

I'm always reading about how bad flight training in Canada is and the quality of the pilot's that we're turning out is way below wher it should be. I'm an instructor and I am fairly inexperienced and I am wondering what you more experienced guys would add to the existing PPL/CPL programs to increase the quality of training in Canada while keeping the time/cost about the same and still working inside what TC has laid out for us.

-M

[Cat Driver]

" and still working inside what TC has laid out for us. "

There is your problem son...as long as you have to comply with what these idiots demand you will have substandard instructors and thus substandard pilots coming out of the schools.

Cat

[laticsdave]

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:56 am Post subject:

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" and still working inside what TC has laid out for us. "

There is your problem son...as long as you have to comply with what these idiots demand you will have substandard instructors and thus substandard pilots coming out of the schools.

The truly wonderful TC Flight Instructors Guide is an example of the problem instructors have. Here's a document that TC use as their bible, and if you transgress one iota from it, especially on a re-ride, then you're up shit creek without a paddle. Now that wouldn't be so bad if is stated in the Guide that it must be followed 100%, no exceptions. Except that it states:

While it is recommended that flight instructors carefully follow these Lesson Plans as outlined, the personal instructional techniques of an individual flight instructor may be cause for modification of this syllabus, in which case, it should be committed to writing and followed with care. In either case, special circumstances such as aircraft availability, geographic location, or weather conditions may necessitate a departure from the written numerical order of the Lesson Plans.

Now this would lead you to believe that if your school has it's own WRITTEN training guide for it's instructors, one that has worked well for over 10 years, that this should be okay. After all, when licence applications are submitted to TC, they're never returned because the TC Guide wasn't followed 100%. But no!!! If you don't use their guide during the re-ride, and only their guide, you will be penalized. Unfairly. Certain examiners are brutal about sticking solely to the Guide, especially Git #1 (I believe he had something to do with the implementation of the CAR's - draw your own conclusions). This kind of mentality kills off initative, and maintains a stalemate in flight training, and flying in general. If we are expected to be TC drones, and show no initiative, then at least provide us with a document that is easy to understand, flexible, and presented in a user-friendly manner. This is the 21st century, not the 1970's.

Further, just how the hell was the Power-Off Accuracy Approach meant to be fairly assessed on a CPL or instructor ride when it was implemented back in April 05, when no guidance from TC on how this exercise was meant to be flown was available until Sept 05? And there info on this is from the wonderful FAA!!! No dobt, psychic powers were meant to have been given to us at that time!

Arrrgh!

[Cat Driver]

I really feel your pain laticsdave, but there is nothing that you can do about it until the idiots that are in charge of flight training are replaced by people who not only understand how to fly, but undersatnd how to teach.

Some of the inspectors in flight training do not rise to the level of idiot.

But they have the power to ruin your career as an instructor, I often wonder how they manage to get home at night without someone beating the living shit out of them?

Cat

[TorontoGuy]

I really feel your pain laticsdave, but there is nothing that you can do about it until the idiots that are in charge of flight training are replaced by people who not only understand how to fly, but undersatnd how to teach.

Ah, you've hit on something very important there. Knowing how to teach well is so crucial. As a student, I've been lucky to get an instructor who, as components of teaching well, a) listens to me, and b) has shown a definite interest in understanding how I learn best.

I've found those to be qualities that were also in my best school teachers, university professors and other professional educators whose courses I've taken as part of my business career.

[goldeneagle]

I'm always reading about how bad flight training in Canada is and the quality of the pilot's that we're turning out is way below wher it should be. I'm an instructor and I am fairly inexperienced and I am wondering what you more experienced guys would add to the existing PPL/CPL programs to increase the quality of training in Canada while keeping the time/cost about the same and still working inside what TC has laid out for us.

-M

I wouldn't make much of a change to the program for PPL or CPL. I would make the changes to the Instructor Rating requirements. If the rules were changed so that instructors required 2000 hours total, and 1000 hours on the class of airplane on which they will be teaching, it would change the face of the industry. We'll get better pilots out of the system, and, instructing would suddenly become a 'valued' profession, not something folks do when they cant find any other work. Example, the folks teaching for instrument ratings will be there because they want to teach, not because they are trying to milk a few hundred multi hours out of students.

Just my opinion, and i _KNOW_ it's not gonna be a popular one.

[Jeffbrownridge]

I think that you are right in that pilots SHOULD be high time guys. The real problem as I see it is that I would increase the cost of flight training dramatically. As it is dual time on a 172 is getting rediculously expensive. If all of a sudden instructors were making 70-80k a year (becuase they were higher time) I would imagine that flight schools would have to charge students somewhere in excess of $100/hour.

[TC Guy]

But they have the power to ruin your career as an instructor, I often wonder how they manage to get home at night without someone beating the living shit out of them?

Actually, Cat... we call that "maintaining standards". I do flight instructor flight tests. Some are... marginal. Some do not meet standards (as laid out in the flight test guide). Some must have been born instructors, and put me to shame.

I do fail people. In all cases, it does effect their ability to retain employment as a Flight Instructor in Canada. I get that. Really. However, that is part of maintaining a standard. Not all candidates have the required skill. Thats why we test in the first place.

I aspire to be as impartial and fair as I can be as a human being.

I would ask that you don't beat the shit out of me for that...

-Guy

[TC Guy]

I'm always reading about how bad flight training in Canada is and the quality of the pilot's that we're turning out is way below wher it should be.

Apart from this forum, could you point me to the publications that have stated this? I have not seen anything myself, and if such information is available, I would like to examine it.

-Guy

[Aether]

Apart from this forum, could you point me to the publications that have stated this? I have not seen anything myself, and if such information is available, I would like to examine it.

-Guy

I have no real evidence to back this up just what I read in this forum. I was just trying to get some ideas from those who don't feel that the quality of pilots is good enough to make some suggestions on how we could improve the existing program to train better pilots.

I wouldn't make much of a change to the program for PPL or CPL. I would make the changes to the Instructor Rating requirements. If the rules were changed so that instructors required 2000 hours total, and 1000 hours on the class of airplane on which they will be teaching, it would change the face of the industry. We'll get better pilots out of the system, and, instructing would suddenly become a 'valued' profession, not something folks do when they cant find any other work. Example, the folks teaching for instrument ratings will be there because they want to teach, not because they are trying to milk a few hundred multi hours out of students.

Just my opinion, and i _KNOW_ it's not gonna be a popular one.

Maybe Commercial/Multi/IFR instructors should be required to be class II or higher while Rec/Private instructors can be class III or IV. This would allow schools to keep the costs down for weekend pilots (class III and IV are paid less) and seperate the commercial guys so that they get higher time (hopefully better) instructors. Or if these commercial/multi/ifr instructors were required to spend some time in industry before teaching new commercial pilots. This should turn out better CPL pilots who are ready to work. It would also create a demand for class I and II instructors and make it possible to be a career instructor and we'll keep those who really enjoy and are good at instructing

-M

[AntiNakedMan]

This is a topic that we continually come back to, and one of the common suggestions is to have higher time instructors, thereby making instructing a worth while 'career' that one can make a decent living at and won't vacate as soon as a 'real' job comes along.

Of course, with instructors who have a higher worth, the cost of instruction will go up. But the instruction will be better, so it should be worth more.

Also think of it this way; if you train 50 substandard pilots and over the next 10 years they cause/contribute to 50 incidents/accidents, will the hike in insurance costs (because we're all affected by some pilot who bends a wing on a hanger door) negate the price we would've paid to have better trained students?

Conversely, if the standard of training goes up, and in hand the occurance of accidents goes down, would insurance costs decrease, or at least remain stable?

Perhaps not everyone sees this, but it's a trend that has been on my mind, let me know what you think.

Anti

[AntiNakedMan]

Nothing? no one agrees/disagrees with my brilliant dissertion? Such intelligence put out with no challenge... the waste of it all....

Ah well, such is life

Anti

[cessnafloatflyer]

My experience says that pilots who are training must find out and shop around for instruction. There are so many schools out there and options at many fields. SHOP around, find an instructor who comes with references from fellow students and pilots. Meet him/her, see if you connect well, talk and research, it is your career and your instruction, thus your choice. Then as the customer arrange with the school that you want that instructor to be yours.

There are a lot of experienced instructors and I think some of the blame should be put on students who pay for whom ever they get and do not get what they pay for.

Find an instuctor with real experience in the real world and fly with him or her solely, if there is a change of mind, the two of you don't jive, then find someone new, but demand the best.

The student is the customer with choices. It is a buyer's market out there.