Why aren't Canadian pilots going on strike?

[Index]

Seriously, everyday I read aviation news, there is always some pilot group voting for strike action. There were the US airlines in the past few months voting in favour of strike action, along with a flurry of raises across the board.

Now, Lufthansa is now talking about strike action

https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-pilo ... al-action/

Meanwhile here in Canada we have gate gourment workers in vancouver voting to strike because they can't cut it with minimum wage salaries, while a jazz, encore, porter FO is still making 40k a year base salary... seriously, what the hell is wrong with us, especially new pilots willing to work for 40k a year for a shot at 4 years of flat pay... why aren't we striking? Might aswell go work at mcdonalds, you'll make more money, which is really sad.

And before someone says "the gov't will force us back to work", well, if we all had the courage to be united and say "yea no", I bet they wouldn't just fire thousands of pilots all at once...

[tango308]

Jazz has a no-strike clause valid until the end of their CA and Porter is non-unionized. Cant talk for the others.

[flyndad]

The very same reason its citizens don't.

[fish4life]

You can only strike in canada after a set process involving conciliation and something else I can’t remember but either way it has to be after a contract has expired. You can’t be half way through a contract and say F it I’m going on strike since the deal I agreed to “X” years ago isn’t good enough

[dhc#]

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Lol, there will always be someone willing to work for less. Even if everyone went on strike airlines would sub in scabs to fill the hole somehow. Ruthless f*ckers are at the top of the food chain.

[goingmissed]

There is a picket planned for September 1st at:

• Atlanta ATL
• Detroit DTW
• Las Angeles LAX
• Minneapolis MSP
• New York JFK
• Salt Lake City SLC
• Seattle SEA
• Boston BOS
• Orlando MCO
• Las Vegas LAS
• San Francisco SFO
• Chicago ORD
• Washington DC IAD
• Calgary YYC
• Toronto YYZ
• Vancouver YVR

Delta, Endeavor, JetBlue, Sun Country, Spirit, United, WestJet, and WestJet Encore pilots are invited to stand in unity with other ALPA pilots.

[BE02 Driver]

There is a picket planned for September 1st at:

• Atlanta ATL
• Detroit DTW
• Las Angeles LAX
• Minneapolis MSP
• New York JFK
• Salt Lake City SLC
• Seattle SEA
• Boston BOS
• Orlando MCO
• Las Vegas LAS
• San Francisco SFO
• Chicago ORD
• Washington DC IAD
• Calgary YYC
• Toronto YYZ
• Vancouver YVR

Delta, Endeavor, JetBlue, Sun Country, Spirit, United, WestJet, and WestJet Encore pilots are invited to stand in unity with other ALPA pilots.

YYZ is doing a good job of picketing itself.

[Meatservo]

I changed my mind about what I was going to say here. I'll just say that regular pay rises to take into account inflation should be mandatory. Otherwise employers are just getting away with effectively paying us less every year.

[McKinley]

Seriously, everyday I read aviation news, there is always some pilot group voting for strike action. There were the US airlines in the past few months voting in favour of strike action, along with a flurry of raises across the board.

Now, Lufthansa is now talking about strike action

https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-pilo ... al-action/

Meanwhile here in Canada we have gate gourment workers in vancouver voting to strike because they can't cut it with minimum wage salaries, while a jazz, encore, porter FO is still making 40k a year base salary... seriously, what the hell is wrong with us, especially new pilots willing to work for 40k a year for a shot at 4 years of flat pay... why aren't we striking? Might aswell go work at mcdonalds, you'll make more money, which is really sad.

And before someone says "the gov't will force us back to work", well, if we all had the courage to be united and say "yea no", I bet they wouldn't just fire thousands of pilots all at once...

You’re not wrong. I wonder the same thing myself ..


I see a number of issues : ( micro / macro)

-Canadas overall culture of apathy/ subservience
-Aviation’s culture of compliance/ stabbing others in the back to get ahead / lack of pilot unity : there’s a ton of pilots willing to fly overweight, U/S aircraft, in atrocious weather, without legal minimums, without alternate fuel, or beyond their capability. They’re willing to put their license on the line, their lives of themselves and customers on the line in order to leapfrog over the next guy by pleasing their unscrupulous employer instead of not complying. You think the same lot will advocate for pay? Not likely.
- Corrupt unions / unions being a mediator looking out for both the company and the pilots.
-Canadian public’s perception of aviators making lots of $ / not caring about choosing ethical businesses( - race to the bottom culture).
-Canada needing a Colgan 3407 to smarten up.( sadly)
It wasn’t long ago that US Regionals paid worse than Canada. 3407 changed that.
-ATAC/ TCCA / Aviation Puppy mills. ( low cost, inexperienced cheap labor)
-pilots lacking self respect
-Boomer culture “ my generation walked uphill both ways”! ( Meanwhile, the same generation is at the top of he food chain and preserves their wages while denuding wages for lessor seniority numbers)
- “Ramp culture”/ badge of honor - sure a bit of hard work / leaning the ropes to start/ starting at the bottom is never bad thing …many industries do it. but In Canada’s aviation sector it’s taken to an extreme where you almost need a separate logbook for ramp experience. I’ve been asked for my ramp experience before while interviewing for a 705 job. It also sets up this idea that “ you’re lucky to have a job.” - I think people would ramp for AC if AC decided it was so.
-individual self worth issues
-instability of the industry
-lack of critical thinking
—union / pilot corruption
-Alpa keeping the status quo



We literally cheered on people losing their jobs, succumbing to addictions, throwing people into unemployment/ underemployment, children self harming, and people committing suicide due to isolation, people being unable to leave abusive relationships and more…

But hey! Saving lives right. ( meanwhile your family could barely eat) Some person making 200,000 behind a desk at home could project their own narcissism/ virtue signal about how awful you were because you/ joe small business owner wondered how they were going to live.

Then, some people stood up to mandates/ lockdowns and the very people who stood up to the idiocy were called a bunch of slurs and people literally cheers while they (protesters) were arrested at gunpoint/ trampled. We cheered it on.. think about that.

We couldn’t advocate ourselves out of a wet paper bag as a society..

There’s going to need to be profound shifts for things to change …

[780Pilot]

-Canadas overall culture of apathy/ subservience

Spot on, more then anything at least how I see it. Say Air Canada or Westjet Pilots go on a real nasty strike (as they should). The media/public would portray it as a bunch of people from the 1% who want even more money. I can already see talking points. After all a year 1 captain at AC NB makes 200k a year, why should they get more? There is a large group of people in this country who think if you make more than 150k a year your part of the 1% which statistically speaking your not from an income standpoint. This is what makes gains for pilots so hard in this country.

[Index]

I find the original question confusing. If you are making $40000 per year, chances are you started flying quite recently. You must have been aware of the pay scheme when you took the job. While you ask "why aren't we striking"?, I ask "why did you accept the job?" I mean, if my job paid less than McDonald's, I'd go work at McDonald's.

I'm tempted to speculate that you're a regional F.O. whose sense of their own worth has grown at a greater rate than their experience, or an empirical evaluation of how much their skills may actually be worth in real dollars.

I find it difficult to decide, even for myself, how much a low-time pilot who was trained in this decade is "worth". I wonder what the real empirical value is of someone who doesn't really need a particularly comprehensive education nor any real-life skills beyond a year and a half of full-time flight instruction and a simulator initial course is "worth". It's true, the airlines aren't exactly looking for brain-surgeons anyway. They KNOW they're not looking for people with any substantive navigating, meteorlogical or mechanical ability anymore; even "leadership" abilities are sort of a "soft" requirement that apparently can be spread onto people through watching a presentation on the subject every year. What real, marketable abilities does a new regional F.O. have? Isn't it true that deep inside, even though you won't admit it, you thought you had found a way to kind of "phone it in" academically while still hoping to score a "professional" occupation? There's no doubt you've learned a highly complex task. But what is the difference between what you, personally, think you're "worth", compared to others with a similar level of education? I'm not talking about the amount of money you spent on your training. We all did. Flying is expensive. The world is full of good deals and bad ones. Don't talk about how much you paid to get here. Don't ask how much the lives of the people in the back are "worth". Protecting them is a duty you accepted. Unlike yours, their "worth" is not a commodity to be traded.

Now, if I've mis-characterized you, I apologize. There are way more reasons than just "dissatisfaction with one's entry-level remuneration" to be wondering why Canadian pilots are being paid so much less than foreign ones in equivalent positions. I suspect the road to high pilot salaries is people who look at the circumstances and say "no thank you" if they think they can do better doing something else for a living. Not taking the job and then squawking about something you already knew about.

Here is something you might like: https://www.careersinconstruction.ca/en ... e-operator

The basic entry requirements are the same, the academic outlay is similar, and the little list of possible personality attributes that make this job appealing are identical. The salary range for a "journeyperson" is claimed to be $63000 to $93000. If you were a crane operator, would you strike?

I think the answer here is obvious. The $40000/year McDonalds worker is very close to the top of his game. The $40000/year crane operator is likely an apprentice, working under a journeyman. Guess what? If you're making $40000/year in aviation, So are YOU.

I am not a regional pilot and make significantly more then 40k a year, i'm not bothered by the mis-charactarization because I can see partly where you're coming from, but you're right, maybe my question is a little bit confusing

Let me rephrase. How is it that legacy airlines in other parts of the world are either getting pay raises, like the US, or, are threating strike action IF salaries do not improve. How is it that a gate gourmet worker can strike and ask for more then 17 dollars an hour because that's no longer cutting it due to inflation. 17 dollars an hour at 40 hours a week is 35,360 pre tax. An entry level FO at a regional makes between 42-44k a year pre tax, not including per diems.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6534204

IF gate gourmet workers can go strike because they can't live off their wages, how is a junior FO supposed to live with not much more in a major city with the rampant inflation and current economic outlook?

IF they can strike, and if other legacy carriers have gotten raises, or are threating to strike, why can't we get a little bit more, at least to somewhat help adjust for inflation... is that really too much to ask? Is that entitlement? I don't think so, I think that we should value our profession a little more

[Index]

Seriously, everyday I read aviation news, there is always some pilot group voting for strike action. There were the US airlines in the past few months voting in favour of strike action, along with a flurry of raises across the board.

Now, Lufthansa is now talking about strike action

https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-pilo ... al-action/

Meanwhile here in Canada we have gate gourment workers in vancouver voting to strike because they can't cut it with minimum wage salaries, while a jazz, encore, porter FO is still making 40k a year base salary... seriously, what the hell is wrong with us, especially new pilots willing to work for 40k a year for a shot at 4 years of flat pay... why aren't we striking? Might aswell go work at mcdonalds, you'll make more money, which is really sad.

And before someone says "the gov't will force us back to work", well, if we all had the courage to be united and say "yea no", I bet they wouldn't just fire thousands of pilots all at once...

You’re not wrong. I wonder the same thing myself ..


I see a number of issues : ( micro / macro)

-Canadas overall culture of apathy/ subservience
-Aviation’s culture of compliance/ stabbing others in the back to get ahead / lack of pilot unity : there’s a ton of pilots willing to fly overweight, U/S aircraft, in atrocious weather, without legal minimums, without alternate fuel, or beyond their capability. They’re willing to put their license on the line, their lives of themselves and customers on the line in order to leapfrog over the next guy by pleasing their unscrupulous employer instead of not complying. You think the same lot will advocate for pay? Not likely.
- Corrupt unions / unions being a mediator looking out for both the company and the pilots.
-Canadian public’s perception of aviators making lots of $ / not caring about choosing ethical businesses( - race to the bottom culture).
-Canada needing a Colgan 3407 to smarten up.( sadly)
It wasn’t long ago that US Regionals paid worse than Canada. 3407 changed that.
-ATAC/ TCCA / Aviation Puppy mills. ( low cost, inexperienced cheap labor)
-pilots lacking self respect
-Boomer culture “ my generation walked uphill both ways”! ( Meanwhile, the same generation is at the top of he food chain and preserves their wages while denuding wages for lessor seniority numbers)
- “Ramp culture”/ badge of honor - sure a bit of hard work / leaning the ropes to start/ starting at the bottom is never bad thing …many industries do it. but In Canada’s aviation sector it’s taken to an extreme where you almost need a separate logbook for ramp experience. I’ve been asked for my ramp experience before while interviewing for a 705 job. It also sets up this idea that “ you’re lucky to have a job.” - I think people would ramp for AC if AC decided it was so.
-individual self worth issues
-instability of the industry
-lack of critical thinking
—union / pilot corruption
-Alpa keeping the status quo



We literally cheered on people losing their jobs, succumbing to addictions, throwing people into unemployment/ underemployment, children self harming, and people committing suicide due to isolation, people being unable to leave abusive relationships and more…

But hey! Saving lives right. ( meanwhile your family could barely eat) Some person making 200,000 behind a desk at home could project their own narcissism/ virtue signal about how awful you were because you/ joe small business owner wondered how they were going to live.

Then, some people stood up to mandates/ lockdowns and the very people who stood up to the idiocy were called a bunch of slurs and people literally cheers while they (protesters) were arrested at gunpoint/ trampled. We cheered it on.. think about that.

We couldn’t advocate ourselves out of a wet paper bag as a society..

There’s going to need to be profound shifts for things to change …

Spot on sir, spot on...

[firstofficer]

Seriously, everyday I read aviation news, there is always some pilot group voting for strike action. There were the US airlines in the past few months voting in favour of strike action, along with a flurry of raises across the board.

Now, Lufthansa is now talking about strike action

https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-pilo ... al-action/

Meanwhile here in Canada we have gate gourment workers in vancouver voting to strike because they can't cut it with minimum wage salaries, while a jazz, encore, porter FO is still making 40k a year base salary... seriously, what the hell is wrong with us, especially new pilots willing to work for 40k a year for a shot at 4 years of flat pay... why aren't we striking? Might aswell go work at mcdonalds, you'll make more money, which is really sad.

And before someone says "the gov't will force us back to work", well, if we all had the courage to be united and say "yea no", I bet they wouldn't just fire thousands of pilots all at once...

You’re not wrong. I wonder the same thing myself ..


I see a number of issues : ( micro / macro)

-Canadas overall culture of apathy/ subservience
-Aviation’s culture of compliance/ stabbing others in the back to get ahead / lack of pilot unity : there’s a ton of pilots willing to fly overweight, U/S aircraft, in atrocious weather, without legal minimums, without alternate fuel, or beyond their capability. They’re willing to put their license on the line, their lives of themselves and customers on the line in order to leapfrog over the next guy by pleasing their unscrupulous employer instead of not complying. You think the same lot will advocate for pay? Not likely.
- Corrupt unions / unions being a mediator looking out for both the company and the pilots.
-Canadian public’s perception of aviators making lots of $ / not caring about choosing ethical businesses( - race to the bottom culture).
-Canada needing a Colgan 3407 to smarten up.( sadly)
It wasn’t long ago that US Regionals paid worse than Canada. 3407 changed that.
-ATAC/ TCCA / Aviation Puppy mills. ( low cost, inexperienced cheap labor)
-pilots lacking self respect
-Boomer culture “ my generation walked uphill both ways”! ( Meanwhile, the same generation is at the top of he food chain and preserves their wages while denuding wages for lessor seniority numbers)
- “Ramp culture”/ badge of honor - sure a bit of hard work / leaning the ropes to start/ starting at the bottom is never bad thing …many industries do it. but In Canada’s aviation sector it’s taken to an extreme where you almost need a separate logbook for ramp experience. I’ve been asked for my ramp experience before while interviewing for a 705 job. It also sets up this idea that “ you’re lucky to have a job.” - I think people would ramp for AC if AC decided it was so.
-individual self worth issues
-instability of the industry
-lack of critical thinking
—union / pilot corruption
-Alpa keeping the status quo



We literally cheered on people losing their jobs, succumbing to addictions, throwing people into unemployment/ underemployment, children self harming, and people committing suicide due to isolation, people being unable to leave abusive relationships and more…

But hey! Saving lives right. ( meanwhile your family could barely eat) Some person making 200,000 behind a desk at home could project their own narcissism/ virtue signal about how awful you were because you/ joe small business owner wondered how they were going to live.

Then, some people stood up to mandates/ lockdowns and the very people who stood up to the idiocy were called a bunch of slurs and people literally cheers while they (protesters) were arrested at gunpoint/ trampled. We cheered it on.. think about that.

We couldn’t advocate ourselves out of a wet paper bag as a society..

There’s going to need to be profound shifts for things to change …

+1

[lownslow]

Why aren’t Canadian pilots going on strike?

Because it doesn’t work that way.

What can be done is working to rule, not taking OT, not busting your ass out of the kindness of your aviator heart, and stuff like that. That sort of thing would take coordination and could be pretty harshly screwed by just a few people.

[Index]

Why aren’t Canadian pilots going on strike?

Because it doesn’t work that way.

What can be done is working to rule, not taking OT, not busting your ass out of the kindness of your aviator heart, and stuff like that. That sort of thing would take coordination and could be pretty harshly screwed by just a few people.

Ok fair enough, but then I have to ask, why doesn't it work that way in Canadian aviation? How come other industries in Canada can strike but we can't? I'm genuinely curious and I'm not asking this to stir the pot or anything, I'd really like to know. Construction workers and carpenters went on strike a few months ago and they all got raises... I know they're unionized, I obviously don't know the inner workings, so I'm trying to understand what makes Canadian aviation so special vs other industries in Canada, and versus aviation outside of Canada...

British airways pilot group said recently that they are also willing to strike soon...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... trike/amp/

[Bede]

An employee group can only strike when the contract expires. You cannot strike if there is still a valid contract. That's straight from the Canada Labour Code. You also cannot take concerted labour action like work to rule.

As for comparing Canada and the US. Unfortunately US carriers earn far more per pilot so there is more "pie" to go after. One of the big reasons is our government support (or lack thereof) for airports. The monies that US pilots can negotiate for are largely allocated to government and airport authorities in CAnada.

[DanWEC]

I changed my mind about what I was going to say here. I'll just say that regular pay rises to take into account inflation should be mandatory. Otherwise employers are just getting away with effectively paying us less every year.

With no changes to contributions, etc, and including a YOS anniversary, in my position at Canada's X largest airline I take home approx $400 a month more than I did 3 years ago. So in essence that could be close to a $1k pay cut a month pay factoring inflation. I wear another hat outside of aviation that's going the opposite direction, and is rapidly becoming a damn good reason to quit this shit altogether. I really miss flying for fun.

[Index]

An employee group can only strike when the contract expires. You cannot strike if there is still a valid contract. That's straight from the Canada Labour Code. You also cannot take concerted labour action like work to rule.

As for comparing Canada and the US. Unfortunately US carriers earn far more per pilot so there is more "pie" to go after. One of the big reasons is our government support (or lack thereof) for airports. The monies that US pilots can negotiate for are largely allocated to government and airport authorities in CAnada.

Well, I'll be honest, I didn't know, I just looked it up also...

Now with that said, what is one supposed to do then if you're locked into an ancient contract, which has another 10 years left and is not going to cut it given todays current conditions and future economic outlook? Like meatservo said, pay raises should, in an ideal world, automatically take into account some form of inflation

[goingmissed]

-Canadas overall culture of apathy/ subservience

Spot on, more then anything at least how I see it. Say Air Canada or Westjet Pilots go on a real nasty strike (as they should). The media/public would portray it as a bunch of people from the 1% who want even more money. I can already see talking points. After all a year 1 captain at AC NB makes 200k a year, why should they get more? There is a large group of people in this country who think if you make more than 150k a year your part of the 1% which statistically speaking your not from an income standpoint. This is what makes gains for pilots so hard in this country.

I took home $1168 on my last paycheck. That is standard pay and not lowered in any way (other than taxes). I get paid twice a month.