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Yes the famous silent majority. Completely happy it is assumed.......or have you checked lately?
Buckle_Up wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:18 pm What these guys did is serious and they will be lucky if all they get is fired. I don't see this a a shot at P4C in the least. The one clown was on track to get fired before he got laid off. He had made a name for himself during his PIT Course and the unabashed arrogance grew from there.
No ones going to drop tools to support these guys and if you think they'll get their jobs back - you are delusional.
From what I have seen P4C has some great ideas, may want to work on your delivery. No doubt ACPA is useless but this wasn't their doing and remember the MEC Chairman is the Grand Poohbah of the P4C Movement.
Unfortunately these three made a seriously bad move but for the rest of us - time to move on - nothing to see here.
Ratherbe,Ratherbe wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:20 pm Fanblade,
My full quote was “ Another reason it passed is because the silent majority did not want to see another group of crazies lead us out on a wildcat strike only to be arbitrated back to work again.”
This issue today is that the P4C leaders do not have a clear strategy to improve the WAWCON of AC pilots. They talk about unity while they slam senior pilots, they slam the union they represent, and they show zero transparency which apparently was one of their key principles. They have lost a lot credibility and some of them have even been fired which is not an easy thing to do.
History repeats itself, as do I apparently. Watch out here comes another train wreck.
Sportingpistol,sportingrifle wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:02 pm Yesmassapayson…
FWIW…Blake is doing one of the first HK trips to see what issues occur. And when he is not doing that he is apparently quite busy trying to get a few dumb asses jobs back - something he seems to be unfortunately quite good at. Honestly, I get you hate the pre-P4C ACPA reps but he could find a cure for cancer and it seems it wouldn’t be enough.
Hard to disagree here.Ratherbe wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:20 pm Fanblade,
My full quote was “ Another reason it passed is because the silent majority did not want to see another group of crazies lead us out on a wildcat strike only to be arbitrated back to work again.”
This issue today is that the P4C leaders do not have a clear strategy to improve the WAWCON of AC pilots. They talk about unity while they slam senior pilots, they slam the union they represent, and they show zero transparency which apparently was one of their key principles. They have lost a lot credibility and some of them have even been fired which is not an easy thing to do.
History repeats itself, as do I apparently. Watch out here comes another train wreck.
Agreed. Unfortunately those elected by the membership to bring about change are coming under fire from two different directions. Those two directions are not going to stop. Between now and October control of the union is up for grabs through elections. ACPA does not like what the membership has been electing and neither does the company. Both sides essentially flipping the bird at membership direction.
Nobody can be terminated for casting a vote for representation.Fanblade wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:02 am
I think the company and the union think the membership has been scared off by recent events. The problem is that by ACPA sweeping events under the rug, most of the membership is clueless as to what they should be intimidated by. Or even who. Their voting won’t change.
We will know who is in control starting January within a few months. Voting starts in a few weeks. It is not a coincidence that the current chaos is happening. I would expect more.
Look at it this way. ACPA isn’t a union. What we have happening is a union drive.
Within 18 months there will be 1500+ AC pilots on flat pay. If that cannot create some type of member driven initiative regarding both local and national representation, as well as bargaining priorities, then there is no chance of raising the bar and making AC the gold standard for aspiring aviation professionals.
Bruh, the fact that you think these terminations have anything to do with social media conduct shows how misinformed you are.Buckle_Up wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:27 am The company knows full well that the demographic swing is here. For the P4C crowd to think they are scared, don't flatter yourself, they will deal with it, same with a representation change. This was not a shot across the bow at ACPA, this is a shot at Attitude and irresponsible behavior.
We have new hire 50 year old, ex-WideBody Captains that are a pleasure to fly with. They are refugees of how cruel this industry can truly be, going from some of the (one time) coveted careers of Cathay and the Emirates. Funny how it isn't them spouting off on social media!
It is the low time college brats that seem to have the biggest mouths. Let's face it, this career is out of reach for most people. If Daddy isn't willing to cough up north of 150K, best look somewhere else. Wonder why you are called "entitled?"
Not to mention the Jazz Flow through has brought the lowest time Pilots to AC since the 60's.
As a newhire you were told the pay scale, if you weren't Man Enough to tell them during the interview to go pound sand - you accept the deal.
Nothing wrong with getting in the door and looking to facilitate change, it is all in the delivery.
YesMassaPayson wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:04 amBruh, the fact that you think these terminations have anything to do with social media conduct shows how misinformed you are.Buckle_Up wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:27 am The company knows full well that the demographic swing is here. For the P4C crowd to think they are scared, don't flatter yourself, they will deal with it, same with a representation change. This was not a shot across the bow at ACPA, this is a shot at Attitude and irresponsible behavior.
We have new hire 50 year old, ex-WideBody Captains that are a pleasure to fly with. They are refugees of how cruel this industry can truly be, going from some of the (one time) coveted careers of Cathay and the Emirates. Funny how it isn't them spouting off on social media!
It is the low time college brats that seem to have the biggest mouths. Let's face it, this career is out of reach for most people. If Daddy isn't willing to cough up north of 150K, best look somewhere else. Wonder why you are called "entitled?"
Not to mention the Jazz Flow through has brought the lowest time Pilots to AC since the 60's.
As a newhire you were told the pay scale, if you weren't Man Enough to tell them during the interview to go pound sand - you accept the deal.
Nothing wrong with getting in the door and looking to facilitate change, it is all in the delivery.
Your info is bad and you should feel bad.
As someone who got 0$ from Daddy and who worked 60 hours a week for 7 or 8 years to pay back the student loans, I can say it's not just the trust fund babies that think as an Air Canada pilot, I should be able to afford to live in the city where my job is.Buckle_Up wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:27 am The company knows full well that the demographic swing is here. For the P4C crowd to think they are scared, don't flatter yourself, they will deal with it, same with a representation change. This was not a shot across the bow at ACPA, this is a shot at Attitude and irresponsible behavior.
We have new hire 50 year old, ex-WideBody Captains that are a pleasure to fly with. They are refugees of how cruel this industry can truly be, going from some of the (one time) coveted careers of Cathay and the Emirates. Funny how it isn't them spouting off on social media!
It is the low time college brats that seem to have the biggest mouths. Let's face it, this career is out of reach for most people. If Daddy isn't willing to cough up north of 150K, best look somewhere else. Wonder why you are called "entitled?"
Not to mention the Jazz Flow through has brought the lowest time Pilots to AC since the 60's.
As a newhire you were told the pay scale, if you weren't Man Enough to tell them during the interview to go pound sand - you accept the deal.
Nothing wrong with getting in the door and looking to facilitate change, it is all in the delivery.
Is it too much to be 30 at AC and want to have enough money to pay your bills?Buckle_Up wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:27 am The company knows full well that the demographic swing is here. For the P4C crowd to think they are scared, don't flatter yourself, they will deal with it, same with a representation change. This was not a shot across the bow at ACPA, this is a shot at Attitude and irresponsible behavior.
We have new hire 50 year old, ex-WideBody Captains that are a pleasure to fly with. They are refugees of how cruel this industry can truly be, going from some of the (one time) coveted careers of Cathay and the Emirates. Funny how it isn't them spouting off on social media!
It is the low time college brats that seem to have the biggest mouths. Let's face it, this career is out of reach for most people. If Daddy isn't willing to cough up north of 150K, best look somewhere else. Wonder why you are called "entitled?"
Not to mention the Jazz Flow through has brought the lowest time Pilots to AC since the 60's.
As a newhire you were told the pay scale, if you weren't Man Enough to tell them during the interview to go pound sand - you accept the deal.
Nothing wrong with getting in the door and looking to facilitate change, it is all in the delivery.
No it doesn’t.FelixGustof wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:48 am
Is it too much to be 30 at AC and want to have enough money to pay your bills?
You know rent, groceries, car, and a phone so the company can call you to go to work
Does that make you entitled?
The new generation should absolutely hold us "seniors" as fully responsible for the direction our contract has taken.Fanblade wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:57 amNo it doesn’t.FelixGustof wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:48 am
Is it too much to be 30 at AC and want to have enough money to pay your bills?
You know rent, groceries, car, and a phone so the company can call you to go to work
Does that make you entitled?
Buckle up have you ever heard the old saying that when you point, three fingers point back.
Are you sure that the “entitled ones” are the people you are pointing at? What about the three fingers pointing back at you, while telling the younger generation they are not entitled to the compensation you had when you were junior?
True sense of entitlement is rooted in the belief you are above the masses or average Joe. That you are special. You get to have things others don’t. It allows for the belief you are entitled to talk down to others, because they are below you in status. If they don’t think like you they must be inferior.
Coming from the senior demographic. I don’t see this generation as entitled. I see them holding our feet to the fire because we didn’t leave the profession better than we found it.
They know full well about the “we don’t negotiate for the unborn” years. Who was entitled then? We agreed to zero cost bargaining but also wanted a raise. It meant that raise was going to come at the expense of someone else. We decided to take from Peter to pay Paul. Fess up. That is exactly what we did. Now it surprises you that some are less than impressed?
In this case Paul has the gaul to call Peter entitled???????
So how did we get those raises in a zero cost bargaining environment.
Let me count the ways.
We agreed to pay raises for those on property but pay cuts for those who fill vacancies later.
We agreed to FO’s taking a 5-10% pay cut.
We agreed to RP’s taking a 25% pay cut
We agreed to end future hires DB pension
We agreed to double flat pay to four years.
We agreed to lower pay for Rouge
Then we agreed to lock all this in for 10 years so that nothing can be fixed.
Now as we approach the end of that lock-in, you view people expressing displeasure at what our generation did to them, as entitled?
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