Is Jazz the right choice

[gyrotoppler]

With the way the industry is going, do you think going to Jazz with the big carrot of getting to Air Canada is the right decision? Rumour on this site is that Air Canada may stop honouring the 60% agreement.

Jazz seems like a good company, but the pay is abysmal. $42,000 CAD to fly a 76 seat jet in a major Canadian city is ridiculous. You could make that serving coffee at Tim's. The upside to this is that your chance of going to AC earlier than someone not within Jazz is much higher. But if one were to pursue AC, from a 703/704 gig, do you think Jazz is a good choice? Why not go fly a 737 for a LCC making ~64k. Applying to AC after a year/750+ hours on a 73 surely will appeal to them just as much, if not more, than a Jazz hire. So why choose Jazz? It seems like the only benefit in Jazz is this agreement, which is looking grim. It seems like the best way in the past to get to AC was Jazz, but with the current times may not be the right decision.

[Outlaw58]

With the way the industry is going, do you think going to Jazz with the big carrot of getting to Air Canada is the right decision? Rumour on this site is that Air Canada may stop honouring the 60% agreement.

Jazz seems like a good company, but the pay is abysmal. $42,000 CAD to fly a 76 seat jet in a major Canadian city is ridiculous. You could make that serving coffee at Tim's. The upside to this is that your chance of going to AC earlier than someone not within Jazz is much higher. But if one were to pursue AC, from a 703/704 gig, do you think Jazz is a good choice? Why not go fly a 737 for a LCC making ~64k. Applying to AC after a year/750+ hours on a 73 surely will appeal to them just as much, if not more, than a Jazz hire. So why choose Jazz? It seems like the only benefit in Jazz is this agreement, which is looking grim. It seems like the best way in the past to get to AC was Jazz, but with the current times may not be the right decision.

I see a lot of these posts these days.

Here is my take. I chose Jazz 5 years ago, never regretted my choice, because Jazz was and still is the right place to be for ME, at this particular juncture in my life, experience, family balance and life goals. Just because it is right for me, doesn't mean it is for you. If you don't see the attraction, and I say this with the utmost respect, just move along to where you will be happy with your choices and what is right for YOU.

You're not doing anyone (your employer, your coworkers, or yourself) any favors by applying to a company where on day 1, the number #1 thing on your mind is "How soon can I leave for my next job?"

Believe me when I say that years down the road, when you look back on your career, you're not going to regret taking the most enjoyable path to your career end goal (and that's assuming it's going to remain the same along the way!), but you may regret what you missed by gunning for the fastest route.

Fly safe!!

58

[gyrotoppler]

With the way the industry is going, do you think going to Jazz with the big carrot of getting to Air Canada is the right decision? Rumour on this site is that Air Canada may stop honouring the 60% agreement.

Jazz seems like a good company, but the pay is abysmal. $42,000 CAD to fly a 76 seat jet in a major Canadian city is ridiculous. You could make that serving coffee at Tim's. The upside to this is that your chance of going to AC earlier than someone not within Jazz is much higher. But if one were to pursue AC, from a 703/704 gig, do you think Jazz is a good choice? Why not go fly a 737 for a LCC making ~64k. Applying to AC after a year/750+ hours on a 73 surely will appeal to them just as much, if not more, than a Jazz hire. So why choose Jazz? It seems like the only benefit in Jazz is this agreement, which is looking grim. It seems like the best way in the past to get to AC was Jazz, but with the current times may not be the right decision.

I see a lot of these posts these days.

Here is my take. I chose Jazz 5 years ago, never regretted my choice, because Jazz was and still is the right place to be for ME, at this particular juncture in my life, experience, family balance and life goals. Just because it is right for me, doesn't mean it is for you. If you don't see the attraction, and I say this with the utmost respect, just move along to where you will be happy with your choices and what is right for YOU.

You're not doing anyone (your employer, your coworker, or yourself) any favors by applying to a company where on day 1, the number #1 think on your mind is "How soon can I leave for my next job?"

Believe me when I say that years down the road, when you look back on your career, you're not going to regret taking the most enjoyable path to your career end goal (and that's assuming it's going to remain the same along the way!), but you may regret what you missed by gunning for the fastest route.

Fly safe!!

58

Well said Outlaw, thanks for the 2 cents. It's easy to put the cart in front of the horse in this industry. With so many variables and change in the industry, making the right next move is pretty difficult. What is right for me right now seems up in the air, pardon the pun. I've certainly heard Jazz is a perfectly fine place to hang your hat, and many do.

Blue skies to you

[RobertChow]

When is the next CBA to be negotiated ? Feel like the pay rates will take a significant bump with the current state of the industry.

[RockSalty]

Didn’t the pilot group sign a ~17 year contract a few years ago?

[flyingcanuck]

When is the next CBA to be negotiated ? Feel like the pay rates will take a significant bump with the current state of the industry.

Only another 15 years..

[EPR]

Or go fly a KA B200 for $130,000+ and live where you want! (during your time off) Yes, you need to weigh the pros and cons, for both!

[McKinley]

Or go fly a KA B200 for $130,000+ and live where you want! (during your time off) Yes, you need to weigh the pros and cons, for both!

Yes, a KBA for 15 + years was signed.. and pilots were given two weeks or something similar to sign it.

Those who saw the writing on the wall “ sign this fast before you have time to think about it” we’re demonized / shamed as being lacking proper mental facilities to make a quick decision. Their competency as aviators was called into question..

And now we’re here !! Cool eh?

I second flying a KA up north .. better pay etc. sad but it is what it is.

The change will come when pilots grow a pair, develop self worth and critical thinking and use the word “ no.” Until then, here we are.

This industry eats its young and we eat eachother alive.. the companies / corporations know this and benefit enormously.

[mmm..bacon]

"Is Jazz the right choice?"

No. Not with this available: http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewto ... ?t=164840

[We_tu_lo]

If you want to go to air Canada fast, go to encore or porter. That's the simple answer. If you hate money and love 703-style operators, go to jazz.

[CanadianPilotQc]

If you want to go to air Canada fast, go to encore or porter. That's the simple answer. If you hate money and love 703-style operators, go to jazz.

I agree that the pay sucks (alot) but Jazz a 703 style operator? You must be out of your mind... it's a great company to work for besides the pay.

[negative_g]

If you want to go to air Canada fast, go to encore or porter. That's the simple answer. If you hate money and love 703-style operators, go to jazz.

da fuk. Clearly you never worked at Jazz. It has it's issues like any airline, but it's a pretty well run company and has great support for the pilots. Dispatch, mx, etc. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[JHR]

If you want to go to air Canada fast, go to encore or porter. That's the simple answer. If you hate money and love 703-style operators, go to jazz.

I agree that the pay sucks (alot) but Jazz a 703 style operator? You must be out of your mind... it's a great company to work for besides the pay.

Lol good thing the bank hands out mortgages based on how fun the job is rather than how much it pays

[CanadianPilotQc]

If you want to go to air Canada fast, go to encore or porter. That's the simple answer. If you hate money and love 703-style operators, go to jazz.

I agree that the pay sucks (alot) but Jazz a 703 style operator? You must be out of your mind... it's a great company to work for besides the pay.

Lol good thing the bank hands out mortgages based on how fun the job is rather than how much it pays

Read my post again. Comparing Jazz to a 703 operator makes you lose all credibility for a debate.

[McKinley]

I agree that the pay sucks (alot) but Jazz a 703 style operator? You must be out of your mind... it's a great company to work for besides the pay.

Lol good thing the bank hands out mortgages based on how fun the job is rather than how much it pays

Read my post again. Comparing Jazz to a 703 operator makes you lose all credibility for a debate.

703:

100,000+ per year salary for a king air + benefits
15 days a month worked
Usually does not involve night flying
Home every night
Does own paperwork via flight planning software
May have to clean aircraft
In charge of own schedule ( loading, unloading)
Base where you live
No hotels
8-12 hour days
Has to arrange de-icing
Immaculate maintenance ( depends on the 703/704)
Has to fly with inexperienced crew
Uniform provided
Can transition to AC mainline
Has to pack a snack or flight is catered or healthy food packed

Jazz:

Some medical benefits
34,700 start
Nights, standups, never home, bizarre start hours
18 days a month for pairings
Dispatch: have to double and triple check paperwork errors, apologize profusely to irate customers,
Has to groom aircraft between turns
Mainline schedules and usually makes a mess of said schedule
Base on the opposite end of the country ( YYZ / YUL)
Crap hotels
12-14 hour days
Superiority complex - “ what type of pilot are you going to be.??”
Necessitates second job
Has to arrange ramp servicing / de-icing/hotels/ cabs / irrops/ ramp services
Responsible for 75+ lives
Sub par maintenance
Has to fly with inexperienced crew - only in a 705 environment with complex engine outs
Must purchase uniform
Might go to mainline
Packs own food for 4 days - expensive food on the road necessitating eating crap food due to sweatshop wages

I’m just getting warmed up ..

* note: information is second hand but from people who work at Jazz

You’re right.. The choice is obvious .

[Malfunction]

The pilots who are already here don't want you here. We want leverage to improve. Please don't apply

[RockSalty]

Lol good thing the bank hands out mortgages based on how fun the job is rather than how much it pays

Read my post again. Comparing Jazz to a 703 operator makes you lose all credibility for a debate.

703:

100,000+ per year salary for a king air + benefits
15 days a month worked
Usually does not involve night flying
Home every night
Does own paperwork via flight planning software
May have to clean aircraft
In charge of own schedule ( loading, unloading)
Base where you live
No hotels
8-12 hour days
Has to arrange de-icing
Immaculate maintenance ( depends on the 703/704)
Has to fly with inexperienced crew
Uniform provided
Can transition to AC mainline
Has to pack a snack or flight is catered or healthy food packed

Jazz:

Some medical benefits
34,700 start
Nights, standups, never home, bizarre start hours
18 days a month for pairings
Dispatch: have to double and triple check paperwork errors, apologize profusely to irate customers,
Has to groom aircraft between turns
Mainline schedules and usually makes a mess of said schedule
Base on the opposite end of the country ( YYZ / YUL)
Crap hotels
12-14 hour days
Superiority complex - “ what type of pilot are you going to be.??”
Necessitates second job
Has to arrange ramp servicing / de-icing/hotels/ cabs / irrops/ ramp services
Responsible for 75+ lives
Sub par maintenance
Has to fly with inexperienced crew - only in a 705 environment with complex engine outs
Must purchase uniform
Might go to mainline
Packs own food for 4 days - expensive food on the road necessitating eating crap food due to sweatshop wages

I’m just getting warmed up ..

* note: information is second hand but from people who work at Jazz

You’re right.. The choice is obvious .

Can you point me in the direction of this king air job where you’re home every night and don’t fly nights? Sounds a lot better than the one I have flying medevac

[Babar350]

Read my post again. Comparing Jazz to a 703 operator makes you lose all credibility for a debate.

703:

100,000+ per year salary for a king air + benefits
15 days a month worked
Usually does not involve night flying
Home every night
Does own paperwork via flight planning software
May have to clean aircraft
In charge of own schedule ( loading, unloading)
Base where you live
No hotels
8-12 hour days
Has to arrange de-icing
Immaculate maintenance ( depends on the 703/704)
Has to fly with inexperienced crew
Uniform provided
Can transition to AC mainline
Has to pack a snack or flight is catered or healthy food packed

Jazz:

Some medical benefits
34,700 start
Nights, standups, never home, bizarre start hours
18 days a month for pairings
Dispatch: have to double and triple check paperwork errors, apologize profusely to irate customers,
Has to groom aircraft between turns
Mainline schedules and usually makes a mess of said schedule
Base on the opposite end of the country ( YYZ / YUL)
Crap hotels
12-14 hour days
Superiority complex - “ what type of pilot are you going to be.??”
Necessitates second job
Has to arrange ramp servicing / de-icing/hotels/ cabs / irrops/ ramp services
Responsible for 75+ lives
Sub par maintenance
Has to fly with inexperienced crew - only in a 705 environment with complex engine outs
Must purchase uniform
Might go to mainline
Packs own food for 4 days - expensive food on the road necessitating eating crap food due to sweatshop wages

I’m just getting warmed up ..

* note: information is second hand but from people who work at Jazz

You’re right.. The choice is obvious .

Can you point me in the direction of this king air job where you’re home every night and don’t fly nights? Sounds a lot better than the one I have flying medevac

Skyjet.

[Outlaw58]

703:

100,000+ per year salary for a king air + benefits
15 days a month worked
Usually does not involve night flying
Home every night
Does own paperwork via flight planning software
May have to clean aircraft
In charge of own schedule ( loading, unloading)
Base where you live
No hotels
8-12 hour days
Has to arrange de-icing
Immaculate maintenance ( depends on the 703/704)
Has to fly with inexperienced crew
Uniform provided
Can transition to AC mainline
Has to pack a snack or flight is catered or healthy food packed

Jazz:

Some medical benefits
34,700 start
Nights, standups, never home, bizarre start hours
18 days a month for pairings
Dispatch: have to double and triple check paperwork errors, apologize profusely to irate customers,
Has to groom aircraft between turns
Mainline schedules and usually makes a mess of said schedule
Base on the opposite end of the country ( YYZ / YUL)
Crap hotels
12-14 hour days
Superiority complex - “ what type of pilot are you going to be.??”
Necessitates second job
Has to arrange ramp servicing / de-icing/hotels/ cabs / irrops/ ramp services
Responsible for 75+ lives
Sub par maintenance
Has to fly with inexperienced crew - only in a 705 environment with complex engine outs
Must purchase uniform
Might go to mainline
Packs own food for 4 days - expensive food on the road necessitating eating crap food due to sweatshop wages

I’m just getting warmed up ..

* note: information is second hand but from people who work at Jazz

You’re right.. The choice is obvious .

Can you point me in the direction of this king air job where you’re home every night and don’t fly nights? Sounds a lot better than the one I have flying medevac

Skyjet.

Oh dear lord... comparing Jazz to Skyjet?

I am going to go waste my forum time somewhere else...

58 out

[702pipeliner]

Lol this is coming from a guy who obviously hasn't been at 703 in a God awful long time.

My experiences as a king air capt were totally different and I wasn't making 100k.

Quality of life improved greatly by moving on.