Is Jazz the right choice

[genetic jack hammer]

Lol good thing the bank hands out mortgages based on how fun the job is rather than how much it pays

Read my post again. Comparing Jazz to a 703 operator makes you lose all credibility for a debate.

703:

100,000+ per year salary for a king air + benefits
15 days a month worked
Usually does not involve night flying
Home every night
Does own paperwork via flight planning software
May have to clean aircraft
In charge of own schedule ( loading, unloading)
Base where you live
No hotels
8-12 hour days
Has to arrange de-icing
Immaculate maintenance ( depends on the 703/704)
Has to fly with inexperienced crew
Uniform provided
Can transition to AC mainline
Has to pack a snack or flight is catered or healthy food packed

Jazz:

Some medical benefits
34,700 start
Nights, standups, never home, bizarre start hours
18 days a month for pairings
Dispatch: have to double and triple check paperwork errors, apologize profusely to irate customers,
Has to groom aircraft between turns
Mainline schedules and usually makes a mess of said schedule
Base on the opposite end of the country ( YYZ / YUL)
Crap hotels
12-14 hour days
Superiority complex - “ what type of pilot are you going to be.??”
Necessitates second job
Has to arrange ramp servicing / de-icing/hotels/ cabs / irrops/ ramp services
Responsible for 75+ lives
Sub par maintenance
Has to fly with inexperienced crew - only in a 705 environment with complex engine outs
Must purchase uniform
Might go to mainline
Packs own food for 4 days - expensive food on the road necessitating eating crap food due to sweatshop wages

I’m just getting warmed up ..

* note: information is second hand but from people who work at Jazz

You’re right.. The choice is obvious .

Sub Par Maintenance at Jazz? Really? That's pretty harsh. Have you reported/SMS'd what you saw that led you to believe that their maintenance is sub-par?

[rudder]

Lol this is coming from a guy who obviously hasn't been at 703 in a God awful long time.

My experiences as a king air capt were totally different and I wasn't making 100k.

Quality of life improved greatly by moving on.

His/her 703 example is a Unicorn. I know of a handful of 703 positions that are actually better than described. But then there are 95% that are worse. Obviously a case of selective analysis. And if you think King Air time is going to get you to the front of the line for OTS hiring at AC, you may be disappointed (you are competing against 705 CA and FO’s).

As for Jazz, part may be true but part is outrageous bordering on slanderous. Jazz runs a Part 705 operation. Has done so for decades. Historically, aircraft as large as 757 flying international. Currently, flies to every corner of North America. It has a dispatch infrastructure that looks no different than AC. Perhaps a few fresh faces, but also there are some with nearly 4 decades of experience. No difference in MTC. Lots of new faces but all services and paperwork is either performed or supervised by qualified AME’s. Perhaps the confusion here lies in the concept of MEL which is extremely relevant in Part 705 operations.

As for pay and lifestyle - true if you are junior and a new-hire. The starting FO pay is awful, and deductions will chew up much of it. Best schedules belong to the top 25-30% on each roster. Most others will work close to max days and may have little control over the type of flying that they do. Jazz is an airline, not a charter company. Aircraft are operated most hours of the day. That means some crews will be checking in very early, and others checking out quite late. If this is not the desired lifestyle, then airlines will not be your best choice.

Jazz is far from the perfect job. But for many, it meets their career/financial/lifestyle needs. This demographic is fairly senior. For others, it is the best stepping stone to their ultimate career goal which is AC. The first few years at AC don’t look much different than the first few years at Jazz. When they tell you that seniority is everything, they are right. If you don’t like a seniority based system, don’t look at Jazz or AC.

[Admiral Benson]

Read my post again. Comparing Jazz to a 703 operator makes you lose all credibility for a debate.

703:

100,000+ per year salary for a king air + benefits
15 days a month worked
Usually does not involve night flying
Home every night
Does own paperwork via flight planning software
May have to clean aircraft
In charge of own schedule ( loading, unloading)
Base where you live
No hotels
8-12 hour days
Has to arrange de-icing
Immaculate maintenance ( depends on the 703/704)
Has to fly with inexperienced crew
Uniform provided
Can transition to AC mainline
Has to pack a snack or flight is catered or healthy food packed

Jazz:

Some medical benefits (The best benefits by far compared to any 703/704 in the country and in some cases better STD/LTD than AC, but yes...that comes at a cost.

34,700 start Its around $42,000. not great, but your info is incorrect.

Nights, standups, never home, bizarre start hours Yes those exist. There is no true backside of the clock shifts but there are early starts and late finishes. personally I'd rather wake up at 4am in San Diego or Portland than 8am in Fort Chip but hey thats just me

18 days a month for pairings No argument there. thats what it is right now and it sucks. Hopefully it will return to normal in the future

Dispatch: have to double and triple check paperwork errors, apologize profusely to irate customers, This is just completely false. The dispatch is extremely skilled and professional. Are they human? do they make a mistake every so often ...sure don't we all. With regard to apologizing to irate customers I think you forgot that here in 705 world we have FA's and you are describing their job and describing poorly. as a PILOT you may have to say sorry over the PA and usually when it happens we truly are sorry. If anyone is irate as you describe the cops are always a radio call away, and they specialize in irate customers.

Has to groom aircraft between turns just 100% wrong. doesnt happen. your thinking of a different airline in a different time period

Mainline schedules and usually makes a mess of said schedule Dont really know what you mean by this one. are you referring to mainline AC schedules? they usually have a better schedule than we do especially if your turning propellers

Base on the opposite end of the country ( YYZ / YUL) Thats entirely subjective. Good or bad depending on where your at geographically.

Crap hotels Mixed bag. we stay at some of the nicest hotels i've ever been to. and some crap one as well. but all of them are better than waiting in the terminal for court party to be done.

12-14 hour days 8-11 is average

Superiority complex - “ what type of pilot are you going to be.??” I've met people with a superiority complex working at a mattress store. its entirely individually dependent. and certainly not cultural at Jazz. But it might help if we ditched the hat...some of us have .

Necessitates second job Only if your financially retarded. Or think your entitled to certain lifestyle.

Has to arrange ramp servicing / de-icing/hotels/ cabs / irrops/ ramp services None of that is correct. even if your on a charter that is incorrect

Responsible for 75+ lives 9 lives, 19, lives, 78 lives, 350 lives it makes ZERO difference. All are important. and remember if I get there. so does everybody else

Sub par maintenance not true at all and has been touch on in other posts

Has to fly with inexperienced crew - only in a 705 environment with complex engine outs You fly in SK dont you? engine outs are not that hard. fly a heading, to an atitude, then track a nav aid, or a pink line. pretty basic stuff and most of us are happy to have it

Must purchase uniform incorrect, it will be provided. however there are supply chain issues that are complicating things

Might go to mainline sure, if you want to

Packs own food for 4 days - expensive food on the road necessitating eating crap food due to sweatshop wages Most of us prefer our food from home. But if you like to eat a BP every night your per diem will allow that. but I got heartburn just typing that out.

I’m just getting warmed up ..

* note: information is second hand but from people who work at Jazz


If 703 makes you happy, thats awesome. Just say that and move along. But bashing a company with poor secondhand info that is mostly incorrect gives people a twisted idea of the reality of Jazz. General PSA ..if you don't work Jazz....ask questions instead of making statements

You’re right.. The choice is obvious .

Sub Par Maintenance at Jazz? Really? That's pretty harsh. Have you reported/SMS'd what you saw that led you to believe that their maintenance is sub-par?

[McKinley]

Lol this is coming from a guy who obviously hasn't been at 703 in a God awful long time.

My experiences as a king air capt were totally different and I wasn't making 100k.

Quality of life improved greatly by moving on.

His/her 703 example is a Unicorn. I know of a handful of 703 positions that are actually better than described. But then there are 95% that are worse. Obviously a case of selective analysis. And if you think King Air time is going to get you to the front of the line for OTS hiring at AC, you may be disappointed (you are competing against 705 CA and FO’s).

As for Jazz, part may be true but part is outrageous bordering on slanderous. Jazz runs a Part 705 operation. Has done so for decades. Historically, aircraft as large as 757 flying international. Currently, flies to every corner of North America. It has a dispatch infrastructure that looks no different than AC. Perhaps a few fresh faces, but also there are some with nearly 4 decades of experience. No difference in MTC. Lots of new faces but all services and paperwork is either performed or supervised by qualified AME’s. Perhaps the confusion here lies in the concept of MEL which is extremely relevant in Part 705 operations.

As for pay and lifestyle - true if you are junior and a new-hire. The starting FO pay is awful, and deductions will chew up much of it. Best schedules belong to the top 25-30% on each roster. Most others will work close to max days and may have little control over the type of flying that they do. Jazz is an airline, not a charter company. Aircraft are operated most hours of the day. That means some crews will be checking in very early, and others checking out quite late. If this is not the desired lifestyle, then airlines will not be your best choice.

Jazz is far from the perfect job. But for many, it meets their career/financial/lifestyle needs. This demographic is fairly senior. For others, it is the best stepping stone to their ultimate career goal which is AC. The first few years at AC don’t look much different than the first few years at Jazz. When they tell you that seniority is everything, they are right. If you don’t like a seniority based system, don’t look at Jazz or AC.

Carson’s YLW medevac operation ( NOT CARGO) would be comparable to Jazz if not better on many levels. ( home every night)

Some guys from the majors have gone to Carson after growing tired of the airline nonsense.

Pay, benefits, schedule.

[8895]

Lol this is coming from a guy who obviously hasn't been at 703 in a God awful long time.

My experiences as a king air capt were totally different and I wasn't making 100k.

Quality of life improved greatly by moving on.

His/her 703 example is a Unicorn. I know of a handful of 703 positions that are actually better than described. But then there are 95% that are worse. Obviously a case of selective analysis. And if you think King Air time is going to get you to the front of the line for OTS hiring at AC, you may be disappointed (you are competing against 705 CA and FO’s).

As for Jazz, part may be true but part is outrageous bordering on slanderous. Jazz runs a Part 705 operation. Has done so for decades. Historically, aircraft as large as 757 flying international. Currently, flies to every corner of North America. It has a dispatch infrastructure that looks no different than AC. Perhaps a few fresh faces, but also there are some with nearly 4 decades of experience. No difference in MTC. Lots of new faces but all services and paperwork is either performed or supervised by qualified AME’s. Perhaps the confusion here lies in the concept of MEL which is extremely relevant in Part 705 operations.

As for pay and lifestyle - true if you are junior and a new-hire. The starting FO pay is awful, and deductions will chew up much of it. Best schedules belong to the top 25-30% on each roster. Most others will work close to max days and may have little control over the type of flying that they do. Jazz is an airline, not a charter company. Aircraft are operated most hours of the day. That means some crews will be checking in very early, and others checking out quite late. If this is not the desired lifestyle, then airlines will not be your best choice.

Jazz is far from the perfect job. But for many, it meets their career/financial/lifestyle needs. This demographic is fairly senior. For others, it is the best stepping stone to their ultimate career goal which is AC. The first few years at AC don’t look much different than the first few years at Jazz. When they tell you that seniority is everything, they are right. If you don’t like a seniority based system, don’t look at Jazz or AC.

Carson’s YLW medevac operation ( NOT CARGO) would be comparable to Jazz if not better on many levels. ( home every night)

Some guys from the majors have gone to Carson after growing tired of the airline nonsense.

Pay, benefits, schedule.

Uhhhh what pay? Lol last I heard Carson was offering left seat metro jobs for like 46k or something ridiculous like that. Not justifying Jazz’s pay but unless there’s been changes in the last few months the pay at Carson is a joke. Considering it’s an EIC owned company it shouldn’t come as a surprise.

[McKinley]

His/her 703 example is a Unicorn. I know of a handful of 703 positions that are actually better than described. But then there are 95% that are worse. Obviously a case of selective analysis. And if you think King Air time is going to get you to the front of the line for OTS hiring at AC, you may be disappointed (you are competing against 705 CA and FO’s).

As for Jazz, part may be true but part is outrageous bordering on slanderous. Jazz runs a Part 705 operation. Has done so for decades. Historically, aircraft as large as 757 flying international. Currently, flies to every corner of North America. It has a dispatch infrastructure that looks no different than AC. Perhaps a few fresh faces, but also there are some with nearly 4 decades of experience. No difference in MTC. Lots of new faces but all services and paperwork is either performed or supervised by qualified AME’s. Perhaps the confusion here lies in the concept of MEL which is extremely relevant in Part 705 operations.

As for pay and lifestyle - true if you are junior and a new-hire. The starting FO pay is awful, and deductions will chew up much of it. Best schedules belong to the top 25-30% on each roster. Most others will work close to max days and may have little control over the type of flying that they do. Jazz is an airline, not a charter company. Aircraft are operated most hours of the day. That means some crews will be checking in very early, and others checking out quite late. If this is not the desired lifestyle, then airlines will not be your best choice.

Jazz is far from the perfect job. But for many, it meets their career/financial/lifestyle needs. This demographic is fairly senior. For others, it is the best stepping stone to their ultimate career goal which is AC. The first few years at AC don’t look much different than the first few years at Jazz. When they tell you that seniority is everything, they are right. If you don’t like a seniority based system, don’t look at Jazz or AC.

Carson’s YLW medevac operation ( NOT CARGO) would be comparable to Jazz if not better on many levels. ( home every night)

Some guys from the majors have gone to Carson after growing tired of the airline nonsense.

Pay, benefits, schedule.

Uhhhh what pay? Lol last I heard Carson was offering left seat metro jobs for like 46k or something ridiculous like that. Not justifying Jazz’s pay but unless there’s been changes in the last few months the pay at Carson is a joke. Considering it’s an EIC owned company it shouldn’t come as a surprise.

Which is why I specified the Medevac side and not tue metro side…

46K + benefits is still better than 40k ..Also, by the time someone has gone to jazz they likely have a pile of MPIC and or 704/705 time coming from Carson et Al.

[Dirty24.7]

The medevac side of carson is better than jazz any which way you slice it.

I interviewed there a little while back and unfortunately didnt get it, but this is all the info I was able to get during the interview:

-King Air F/O starting pay 55k + night premiums and per diems (this is almost another 10k per year, and since you're not in a hotel for multiple nights those per diems are money in your pocket)
-4 of 4 off schedule, home at the end of every shift
-medical and dental benefits

Ill take 55k on a very well maintained king air and my own bed every night over jazz's excuse of a starting wage and 4 day pairings.

[genetic jack hammer]

The medevac side of carson is better than jazz any which way you slice it.

I interviewed there a little while back and unfortunately didnt get it, but this is all the info I was able to get during the interview:

-King Air F/O starting pay 55k + night premiums and per diems (this is almost another 10k per year, and since you're not in a hotel for multiple nights those per diems are money in your pocket)
-4 of 4 off schedule, home at the end of every shift
-medical and dental benefits

Ill take 55k on a very well maintained king air and my own bed every night over jazz's excuse of a starting wage and 4 day pairings.

You should do your homework before you start posting non-sense about Jazz. FYI, on a four day pairing, Per Diems can be over $400 CDN, if you elect to take the US amount into CDN dollars. And yes, like every company out there, seniority dictates what you'll get. Shouldn't come as a surprise. You can bid for 1-4 day pairings. Not all junior pilots get stuck with four days on the road. Commuters love them. I've seen junior capts and f/o's get single day pairings. Some also bid for four day trips for the per diems. Pick up a few overtime shifts and a block holder can bring in $1400+ per diems in a month. Do the math on that...and it's also money in your pocket.

Once again, there's that comment about working on a well maintained king air. Can you give it a rest? Jazz has exceptional maintenance. I've been here over 16years, flown all fleets. Never had sub par maintenance, as a previous poster alluded too. Please stop with the unsubstantiated slanderous comments. Are you at Jazz? If you were and you saw something that made you worry, you'd have a duty to report it. If you're an outsider who has a friend who hates it jazz, there's a really easy solution to that. Don't like the starting wages at Jazz? Then don't apply here. It's not rocket science. Would it be fair for me to make comments about sub par maintenance at Carson, or any other carrier? No.

Glad Carson is working out for some. For some, Jazz is also working for them really well.

[negative_g]

Jazz:

Some medical benefits
34,700 start
Nights, standups, never home, bizarre start hours
18 days a month for pairings
Dispatch: have to double and triple check paperwork errors, apologize profusely to irate customers,
Has to groom aircraft between turns
Mainline schedules and usually makes a mess of said schedule
Base on the opposite end of the country ( YYZ / YUL)
Crap hotels
12-14 hour days
Superiority complex - “ what type of pilot are you going to be.??”
Necessitates second job
Has to arrange ramp servicing / de-icing/hotels/ cabs / irrops/ ramp services
Responsible for 75+ lives
Sub par maintenance
Has to fly with inexperienced crew - only in a 705 environment with complex engine outs
Must purchase uniform
Might go to mainline
Packs own food for 4 days - expensive food on the road necessitating eating crap food due to sweatshop wages

I’m just getting warmed up ..

* note: information is second hand but from people who work at Jazz

You’re right.. The choice is obvious .

I'm sorry... WHAT?

Jazz isn't perfect, especially the first few years of FO pay but don't make up blatant lies.

[pitottubey]

It's refreshing to see someones BS getting calling out

[sstaurus]

We must be in the upside-down if carson is being compared to jazz… never thought I’d see the day

[KenoraPilot]

Lol good thing the bank hands out mortgages based on how fun the job is rather than how much it pays

Read my post again. Comparing Jazz to a 703 operator makes you lose all credibility for a debate.

703:

100,000+ per year salary for a king air + benefits
15 days a month worked
Usually does not involve night flying
Home every night
Does own paperwork via flight planning software
May have to clean aircraft
In charge of own schedule ( loading, unloading)
Base where you live
No hotels
8-12 hour days
Has to arrange de-icing
Immaculate maintenance ( depends on the 703/704)
Has to fly with inexperienced crew
Uniform provided
Can transition to AC mainline
Has to pack a snack or flight is catered or healthy food packed

Jazz:

Some medical benefits
34,700 start
Nights, standups, never home, bizarre start hours
18 days a month for pairings
Dispatch: have to double and triple check paperwork errors, apologize profusely to irate customers,
Has to groom aircraft between turns
Mainline schedules and usually makes a mess of said schedule
Base on the opposite end of the country ( YYZ / YUL)
Crap hotels
12-14 hour days
Superiority complex - “ what type of pilot are you going to be.??”
Necessitates second job
Has to arrange ramp servicing / de-icing/hotels/ cabs / irrops/ ramp services
Responsible for 75+ lives
Sub par maintenance
Has to fly with inexperienced crew - only in a 705 environment with complex engine outs
Must purchase uniform
Might go to mainline
Packs own food for 4 days - expensive food on the road necessitating eating crap food due to sweatshop wages

I’m just getting warmed up ..

* note: information is second hand but from people who work at Jazz

You’re right.. The choice is obvious .

Solid 90% of your "statements" are false/wrong/ignorant. I'll give you a pass since you don't work at Jazz and are likely just trying to rile people up.....which is what AvCanada is for lol. Anyone who wants real Jazz information knows someone who actually works there or can find "real" information.

[pirep]

The medevac side of carson is better than jazz any which way you slice it.

I interviewed there a little while back and unfortunately didnt get it, but this is all the info I was able to get during the interview:

-King Air F/O starting pay 55k + night premiums and per diems (this is almost another 10k per year, and since you're not in a hotel for multiple nights those per diems are money in your pocket)
-4 of 4 off schedule, home at the end of every shift
-medical and dental benefits

Ill take 55k on a very well maintained king air and my own bed every night over jazz's excuse of a starting wage and 4 day pairings.

You should do your homework before you start posting non-sense about Jazz. FYI, on a four day pairing, Per Diems can be over $400 CDN, if you elect to take the US amount into CDN dollars. And yes, like every company out there, seniority dictates what you'll get. Shouldn't come as a surprise. You can bid for 1-4 day pairings. Not all junior pilots get stuck with four days on the road. Commuters love them. I've seen junior capts and f/o's get single day pairings. Some also bid for four day trips for the per diems. Pick up a few overtime shifts and a block holder can bring in $1400+ per diems in a month. Do the math on that...and it's also money in your pocket.

Once again, there's that comment about working on a well maintained king air. Can you give it a rest? Jazz has exceptional maintenance. I've been here over 16years, flown all fleets. Never had sub par maintenance, as a previous poster alluded too. Please stop with the unsubstantiated slanderous comments. Are you at Jazz? If you were and you saw something that made you worry, you'd have a duty to report it. If you're an outsider who has a friend who hates it jazz, there's a really easy solution to that. Don't like the starting wages at Jazz? Then don't apply here. It's not rocket science. Would it be fair for me to make comments about sub par maintenance at Carson, or any other carrier? No.

Glad Carson is working out for some. For some, Jazz is also working for them really well.

Boasting about per diems, while it's money is not a strong argument for compensation as 1. You need to buy meals and 2. no banks consider it as income when you try to get a mortgage.

[genetic jack hammer]

The medevac side of carson is better than jazz any which way you slice it.

I interviewed there a little while back and unfortunately didnt get it, but this is all the info I was able to get during the interview:

-King Air F/O starting pay 55k + night premiums and per diems (this is almost another 10k per year, and since you're not in a hotel for multiple nights those per diems are money in your pocket)
-4 of 4 off schedule, home at the end of every shift
-medical and dental benefits

Ill take 55k on a very well maintained king air and my own bed every night over jazz's excuse of a starting wage and 4 day pairings.

You should do your homework before you start posting non-sense about Jazz. FYI, on a four day pairing, Per Diems can be over $400 CDN, if you elect to take the US amount into CDN dollars. And yes, like every company out there, seniority dictates what you'll get. Shouldn't come as a surprise. You can bid for 1-4 day pairings. Not all junior pilots get stuck with four days on the road. Commuters love them. I've seen junior capts and f/o's get single day pairings. Some also bid for four day trips for the per diems. Pick up a few overtime shifts and a block holder can bring in $1400+ per diems in a month. Do the math on that...and it's also money in your pocket.

Once again, there's that comment about working on a well maintained king air. Can you give it a rest? Jazz has exceptional maintenance. I've been here over 16years, flown all fleets. Never had sub par maintenance, as a previous poster alluded too. Please stop with the unsubstantiated slanderous comments. Are you at Jazz? If you were and you saw something that made you worry, you'd have a duty to report it. If you're an outsider who has a friend who hates it jazz, there's a really easy solution to that. Don't like the starting wages at Jazz? Then don't apply here. It's not rocket science. Would it be fair for me to make comments about sub par maintenance at Carson, or any other carrier? No.

Glad Carson is working out for some. For some, Jazz is also working for them really well.

Boasting about per diems, while it's money is not a strong argument for compensation as 1. You need to buy meals and 2. no banks consider it as income when you try to get a mortgage.

Not boasting. The original poster went on about how much per diems Carson pilots get, just thought I’d let him/her, and possibly others, know that other carriers pay out per diems as well, some more than Carson.

[Dirty24.7]

You should do your homework before you start posting non-sense about Jazz. FYI, on a four day pairing, Per Diems can be over $400 CDN, if you elect to take the US amount into CDN dollars. And yes, like every company out there, seniority dictates what you'll get. Shouldn't come as a surprise. You can bid for 1-4 day pairings. Not all junior pilots get stuck with four days on the road. Commuters love them. I've seen junior capts and f/o's get single day pairings. Some also bid for four day trips for the per diems. Pick up a few overtime shifts and a block holder can bring in $1400+ per diems in a month. Do the math on that...and it's also money in your pocket.

Once again, there's that comment about working on a well maintained king air. Can you give it a rest? Jazz has exceptional maintenance. I've been here over 16years, flown all fleets. Never had sub par maintenance, as a previous poster alluded too. Please stop with the unsubstantiated slanderous comments. Are you at Jazz? If you were and you saw something that made you worry, you'd have a duty to report it. If you're an outsider who has a friend who hates it jazz, there's a really easy solution to that. Don't like the starting wages at Jazz? Then don't apply here. It's not rocket science. Would it be fair for me to make comments about sub par maintenance at Carson, or any other carrier? No.

Glad Carson is working out for some. For some, Jazz is also working for them really well.

Boasting about per diems, while it's money is not a strong argument for compensation as 1. You need to buy meals and 2. no banks consider it as income when you try to get a mortgage.

Not boasting. The original poster went on about how much per diems Carson pilots get, just thought I’d let him/her, and possibly others, know that other carriers pay out per diems as well, some more than Carson.

I never said jazz dosen't pay per diems. reading comprehension alludes you bud.
But having to find cheap food options to save those per diems and picking up over time and ending up working 20+ days a month just to get by sure sounds like its alot of fun for new hires.
One more note, i never said Jazz has bad maintenance, it seems you misunderstood, I was more so making a general statement about smaller operators and how bad their maintenance can be. Once again, reading comprehension, nowhere in my statement was there an attack directly at jazz maintenance.

Anyway im not gonna continue to argue, Jazz seems like a fantastic place to make a career if you got in a long time ago, however i do feel bad that new people coming to jazz were shafted by ALPA and stiffed with one of the worst contracts for a regional in north america for the next 15 years, on top of having to be based in some of the most expensive cities in the world. HIghway robbery.
If Jazz is your stepping stone to Air Canada and you dont mind being the lowest paid pilot in north america for your level of work, go for it. But tread lightly as it seems the winds are shifting and Jazz may no longer be the best option to get there, especially since it looks like ULCC's south of the border might open the flood gates for Canadians, time will tell.

[rudder]

……. Jazz seems like a fantastic place to make a career if you got in a long time ago, however i do feel bad that new people coming to jazz were shafted by ALPA and stiffed with one of the worst contracts for a regional in north america for the next 15 years, on top of having to be based in some of the most expensive cities in the world. HIghway robbery.
If Jazz is your stepping stone to Air Canada and you dont mind being the lowest paid pilot in north america for your level of work, go for it. But tread lightly as it seems the winds are shifting and Jazz may no longer be the best option to get there, especially since it looks like ULCC's south of the border might open the flood gates for Canadians, time will tell.

That is a fairly accurate assessment.

Jazz CA that aren’t from “a long time ago” are leaving for DEC positions at companies like Flair and Porter. These are good jobs at reasonable pay (after a couple of years of service). Also front of the line candidates for AC OTS hiring.

By any reasonable analysis, one can forecast that status quo is untenable. But that won’t stop some from clinging to it despite the rapidly changing job prospect environment for CDN pilots.

[genetic jack hammer]

Boasting about per diems, while it's money is not a strong argument for compensation as 1. You need to buy meals and 2. no banks consider it as income when you try to get a mortgage.

Not boasting. The original poster went on about how much per diems Carson pilots get, just thought I’d let him/her, and possibly others, know that other carriers pay out per diems as well, some more than Carson.

I never said jazz dosen't pay per diems. reading comprehension alludes you bud.
But having to find cheap food options to save those per diems and picking up over time and ending up working 20+ days a month just to get by sure sounds like its alot of fun for new hires.
One more note, i never said Jazz has bad maintenance, it seems you misunderstood, I was more so making a general statement about smaller operators and how bad their maintenance can be. Once again, reading comprehension, nowhere in my statement was there an attack directly at jazz maintenance.

Anyway im not gonna continue to argue, Jazz seems like a fantastic place to make a career if you got in a long time ago, however i do feel bad that new people coming to jazz were shafted by ALPA and stiffed with one of the worst contracts for a regional in north america for the next 15 years, on top of having to be based in some of the most expensive cities in the world. HIghway robbery.
If Jazz is your stepping stone to Air Canada and you dont mind being the lowest paid pilot in north america for your level of work, go for it. But tread lightly as it seems the winds are shifting and Jazz may no longer be the best option to get there, especially since it looks like ULCC's south of the border might open the flood gates for Canadians, time will tell.

I'm sorry, my bad. My post was meant for McKinley's unsubstantiated claims and accusations. No harm.

[vanislepilot]

I don't work at Jazz, but I see this thread also being titled "Is going from a 703/604 to 705 the right choice?

Yes x1000, especially if you're young.

Am I saying that all 703/604 are bad? No not at all, lots can offer people what they want and need to be happy.

If you like to travel, Seven oh five....

My partner and I have flown to Europe for half money than a single nosebleed seat in a leafs game.

You get a lot of time off, which you can stack and pretty much have a vacation every month if you want to.
I remember how much of a pain in the ass it was just to get a few days off in a row to visit family when I worked 703/604.

Don't feel fit to fly? Book off, no questions, no explanations, no bs.

Just show up and fly the airplane, you will learn lots and enjoy doing it.

If you have even the smallest inclination of going 705, do it. I don't even know how it's a debate.

[canadian_aviator_4]

It was. Now, no. However, please come to replace current pilots so we can go to AC

[john.gottiteflon69]

I feel like a broken record so I’ll explain again online.

Jazz is not the place to be!

Old Jazz pilots are upset Air Georgian and Sky Regional were created and will make it known to you if you come from that operation from the past. They forget to realize they are former Air BC, Air Ontario Etc…they also fail to realize they were treating the job they had as the one and only when clearly it was not

There is no DB pension. That was sold off along time ago so we could get a flow agreement of 60% annual to AC.

There is currently no flow as it stands. Was delayed in the spring summer then subsequently stopped October. It remains to be seen if it will come back for November December. My hunch is no.

There is no upgraded dead heads like the old guard has and there is zero chance it will ever be awarded to the younger group.

Here’s food for thought, the older pilot group always says we have to give something up in order to get something in return.
Why doesn’t the old guard for-fit there c2 passes and dh upgrades for the greater good of the pilot group so we can ask for more pay. This will never happen.

As for pay is abuse. First 4 years as captain and 4 years at FO are a joke and not worth a dime in this current climate.
Lots of FO have to work a second job in order to make ends meet. It’s great for the company because it makes people who otherwise wouldn’t pick up over time do it anyway which helps the pilot shortage issue.

As for the pilot shortage, coming here with a CPL you will be made fun of by all the ATPL pilots. You will be lumped into the Seneca college group which brings the working conditions down dramatically. Don’t forget your crosswind landing limitations!

If you come with an ATPL and manage to upgrade the one
positive is that you transition over to a higher pay scale to afford your gf/bf’s birthday gift. I believe year 4 FO starts at year 2 Captain. Not great but a start.

Have you ever wanted to travel over seas. Our C4 passes will barely get you there. You have to pray an Air Canada call center employees parents don’t try and fly on the same flight as you.

Maintenance generally is okay yet they lack the knowledge for on the fly work. If it goes into maintenance over night it will be repaired. If the aircraft breaks at an outstation with no maintenance base Jazz does not hire contractors to fix the plane. They fly mx out. Good for you if you want an extra day in LGA or BNA. Considering the lay overs are min rest and you never see a single destination longer then it takes to order a pizza and pass out from stress.


Another positive I’ll say is the crew shuttles are fairly good.

Recently they have been scaling back private shuttles.
This has been creating delays for departure because we’re waiting for the hotel shuttle to arrive and wait for the other cattle to get on the bus. This made crew scheduling bring back private shuttles.

Worst case scenario is a dead head day 1 to YUL then you fly to DFW to then take a hotel cattle shuttle for a min rest night at a hotel. Following day is a 3 legs and a dead head back to YUL. Dead head is back of the plane. If you’re lucky you avoid the middle seat.

Dispatch is probably the only positive thing at Jazz. Very new people in the office tho. Make sure you check they placed a sid departure in the flight plan or you’ll look funny asking for more fuel last minute or a reroute to the clearance after requesting a PDC.

Dispatch does not shy away from giving you lots of gas which is a bonus.

Crew scheduling is hit and miss. 50% great people the other %50 are out to screw you and our contract. Make sure you know your alpa contract and your rights for duty day. They WILL push you to fly and break duty.

If you want to come to Jazz to get over worked paid garbage with awful flight benefits great.

Maintenance is average
Lay overs short
Pay garbage
Pension garbage
Alpa mec support garbage
Flow to ac non existent

Speak to any old Jazz pilot and they will tell you how great our contract is. And the reason why they are saying it’s so great is because it secures there retirement. When these pilots leave, they will have left Jazz worse off then when they arrived. They forget to realize that Air Georgian and Sky Regional airlines shut down, and Air Canada paid the penalty to have the CBA canceled. Nothing different than what could happen at Jazz in the next five years if we can’t get something sorted regarding the flow to Air Canada for Jazz pilots. Watch Porter become Jazz 2.0. For Air Canada.

JAZZ is not invincible and has pissed on its pilots the contract and annoyed Air Canada


Moral at Jazz is lower than low and not getting better. If you are new coming to jazz don’t expect much and don’t come here to complain. You knew what you were getting your self into signing up for this operation.

If you are coming from up north, or a smaller operation with 1000 to 3000 hours of flight time, do not come to Jazz. Go to Westjet, Porter, or Air Transat. All of these places would be better career options. Plus you get better flight benefits and pension options. A first officer after three years of flying at WestJet will make the same as a 2nd year captain at Jazz. PIC time on a jet means nothing in this day and age so coming to Jazz to upgrade is worthless considering encore FO are being hired with bare mins to AC.

Over the long term you make more money staying away from Jazz than you would if you stayed. And obviously people come to Jazz wanting to go to Air Canada but don’t bank on that ever happening ever again.

My horse has finished the race at Jazz and I am currently interviewing elsewhere as we speak!


If you read this and following my post is a bunch of trump messages, those are the old Jazz heads mad I am telling it how it is.