DEC Jazz

[Bertollag]

Hi Everyone,
I have a question about the DEC positions at Jazz. Do you think it is a good move starting as a captain when you don’t know the company, the aircraft, the routes… do you think being FO for a couple of months really makes a difference to learn the stuff or the DEC position is fine ?
Thank you very much !

[QKZXKV]

In short no...

I wouldn't be comfortable with a 703/4 hire captaining my CRJ or DH4 right out of the gate (my opinion).

My suggestion from experience is to wait until your 1 year probation is up at the very least. Learn the environment of the 705 ops (or unlearn your Metroliner bad habits). Once you complete your 1 year probation and you feel ready for the left seat have at her.

[frog]

I agree it is a challenge, no doubt.
But someone with a few thousand hours of 705 would have a reasonable chance to make it providing a solid training.

[Canadaflyer46]

Doesn’t really matter what you prefer in the captain flying you. In Canada the bar will keep being lowered until there’s a bad crash resulting in fatalities. It’s sad, but true. Then TC will have to step in.
As an example, Encore in the last year has halved the upgrade experience requirements and got rid of line polling recent captains they flew with.
I’m not sure what the requirements are at Jazz to upgrade.
At some point I think the insurance companies will be the ones to set the bar.

[JHR]

In short no...

I wouldn't be comfortable with a 703/4 hire captaining my CRJ or DH4 right out of the gate (my opinion).

Hahahahaha regional flying is some of the simplest flying around

[flyingcanuck]

In short no...

I wouldn't be comfortable with a 703/4 hire captaining my CRJ or DH4 right out of the gate (my opinion).

Hahahahaha regional flying is some of the simplest flying around

It is... Until it isn't

[rudder]

Hahahahaha regional flying is some of the simplest flying around

Really?

YXY/YXS/YCG/YLW/SFO/LGA/ORD/DFW/ATL

Even the highly experienced crews have to be on top of their game.

There is no substitute for experience. Without that, one needs to deploy knowledge and judgement in order to ensure the required level of safety and performance.

[Outlaw58]

Hahahahaha regional flying is some of the simplest flying around

Really?

YXY/YXS/YCG/YLW/SFO/LGA/ORD/DFW/ATL

Even the highly experienced crews have to be on top of their game.

There is no substitute for experience. Without that, one needs to deploy knowledge and judgement in order to ensure the required level of safety and performance.

Experience is something you acquire a second after needing it.

58

[JHR]

Yes some of those are busy or somewhat challenging destinations but they certainly wouldn't preclude someone with experience becoming a DEC without sitting right seat for a year.

[rudder]

Yes some of those are busy or somewhat challenging destinations but they certainly wouldn't preclude someone with experience becoming a DEC without sitting right seat for a year.

I am fairly certain that the CA SIM Eval or line indoc/line check will identify substandard candidates.

There is no grading to a curve. The standard is the standard.

Lots of CURRENT Jazz FO not making it through upgrade training. A DEC candidate would require significant technical skill (on an aircraft they may never have flown), CRM, leadership, and performance to meet the grade.

There is no ‘participation’ trophy. The good news is that likely Jazz will not terminate a failed DEC (probation) but rather assign them to the right seat and lock them out of further left seat bid for 12-24 months.

Ask good questions at the DEC interview.

[Inthrustwetrust]

Any word if Jazz is having trouble finding DEC? Or are they just filled with resumes?

[QKZXKV]

Any word if Jazz is having trouble finding DEC? Or are they just filled with resumes?

They're having trouble filling ground schools with bodies period. Lots of no-shows for interviews too. Lynx and Flair are taking them.

[QKZXKV]

In short no...

I wouldn't be comfortable with a 703/4 hire captaining my CRJ or DH4 right out of the gate (my opinion).

Hahahahaha regional flying is some of the simplest flying around

It's not about difficulty per say. It's about fitting into the standards of 705 flying. A bush pilot going DEC for example... seems like they're being very picky about DECs as they should be.

[rudder]

Any word if Jazz is having trouble finding DEC? Or are they just filled with resumes?

They're having trouble filling ground schools with bodies period. Lots of no-shows for interviews too. Lynx and Flair are taking them.

And others.

So it raises the question - is Jazz competitive in a pilot supply market that is finite?

[kiaszceski]

Any word if Jazz is having trouble finding DEC? Or are they just filled with resumes?

They're having trouble filling ground schools with bodies period. Lots of no-shows for interviews too. Lynx and Flair are taking them.

And others.

So it raises the question - is Jazz competitive in a pilot supply market that is finite?

How many showed up for Aug 9th GS ?
Did they call the company to advise them?
How many won't show up on the 29th and next month ?
Shouldn't Jazz make more job offer than the 20 for each GS? let say 2 more per GS to avoid empty spots?

[rudder]

They're having trouble filling ground schools with bodies period. Lots of no-shows for interviews too. Lynx and Flair are taking them.

And others.

So it raises the question - is Jazz competitive in a pilot supply market that is finite?

How many showed up for Aug 9th GS ?
Did they call the company to advise them?
How many won't show up on the 29th and next month ?
Shouldn't Jazz make more job offer than the 20 for each GS? let say 2 more per GS to avoid empty spots?

I have no idea if there are empty chairs at any Jazz initial course. But if there are, Jazz would not be the only carrier with no shows or late cancellations or early withdrawals.

Such is the state of the CDN industry in 2022. The offer and the opportunity have to be competitive with other options available, particularly to pilots bringing greater qualifications to the table.

[kiaszceski]

And others.

So it raises the question - is Jazz competitive in a pilot supply market that is finite?

How many showed up for Aug 9th GS ?
Did they call the company to advise them?
How many won't show up on the 29th and next month ?
Shouldn't Jazz make more job offer than the 20 for each GS? let say 2 more per GS to avoid empty spots?

I have no idea if there are empty chairs at any Jazz initial course. But if there are, Jazz would not be the only carrier with no shows or late cancellations or early withdrawals.

Such is the state of the CDN industry in 2022. The offer and the opportunity have to be competitive with other options available, particularly to pilots bringing greater qualifications to the table.

Meanwhile, people that are very eager to join Jazz are waiting in the pool for a late October GS...

[Chaxterium]

I joined Georgian as a DEC on the CRJ but I previously had PIC experience on the CRJ so I didn't find it terribly difficult. The hardest part of being a captain is getting used to making decisions when there's no safety net. If you've already got experience doing that then learning a new type and a new company can be challenging but certainly doable.

[QKZXKV]

They're having trouble filling ground schools with bodies period. Lots of no-shows for interviews too. Lynx and Flair are taking them.

And others.

So it raises the question - is Jazz competitive in a pilot supply market that is finite?

How many showed up for Aug 9th GS ?
Did they call the company to advise them?
How many won't show up on the 29th and next month ?
Shouldn't Jazz make more job offer than the 20 for each GS? let say 2 more per GS to avoid empty spots?

When I bumped into a line ops person who had the information for Jazz hiring last week, they said 10-12 have been showing up for a 20 seat ground school. Interviews are even higher no-show/call returns.

[kiaszceski]

And others.

So it raises the question - is Jazz competitive in a pilot supply market that is finite?

How many showed up for Aug 9th GS ?
Did they call the company to advise them?
How many won't show up on the 29th and next month ?
Shouldn't Jazz make more job offer than the 20 for each GS? let say 2 more per GS to avoid empty spots?

When I bumped into a line ops person who had the information for Jazz hiring last week, they said 10-12 have been showing up for a 20 seat ground school. Interviews are even higher no-show/call returns.

The problem is much bigger than I thought...
Do you guys know how many are leaving during the GS for other opportunities?