Quiet Quitting.

[780Pilot]

I expect a gigantic wave of strikes in the coming years, as labour attempts to keep pace with inflation.

Can AC even strike next year during negotiations given the 2012 precedent? Heck I don’t even know if WestJet could either. You gotta ask yourself if the Canadian Government would let them.

[goldeneagle]

Can AC even strike next year during negotiations given the 2012 precedent? Heck I don’t even know if WestJet could either. You gotta ask yourself if the Canadian Government would let them.

Depends which party is driving the bus at that point in time. With history as the teacher, conservative governments tend to legislate folks back to work, liberal governments tend to let contract negotiations run their course. The current AC contract is a direct result of legislation put in place by the Harper conservative government.

[pelmet]

I don't mean to be condescending or rhetorical but are any of the proponents of quiet quitting expecting to negotiate higher wages any time soon?

It's near impossible to negotiate higher wages with stagnant (or decreasing) productivity. No amount of militancy will change that.

If you don't care about money and your QoL is more important, kudos to you (I'd fall into this camp too) but you can't quiet quit and get a pay raise

Seems to explain the automation replacement that is happening. if you can't find anyone, automate. It gets done at every major store now when we check out. 6 cashes, one cashier to assist.

Fortunately, it will be after my career, but pilots will be on the automation replacement list as well.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Not one bit of currency ever bought a single measurement of time. Or something like that. Quote from Tony Stark Avengers Endgame. Man, I love that movie. If you didn't cry when Tony died, you have no soul.

Work sucks. My passions are not flying. I hunt. I fish. I trap. I have a hobby farm. If I didn't have to work, I wouldn't. Pilots seem to be one of the worst for this. No life outside work. Sad.

I think corporate pilots have it the worst. 2 hour callouts and on call majority of their lives. I hated working that nonsense

[Bede]

The thing is that you likely won't get a proper raise working yourself to death either. It's one of the causes of the 'movement'.

And in aviation most pilots are stuck in pay scales anyway, so no need to work yourself to death there either.

True for us flying for large carriers, but not everyone is our position. Let's say you're working for a 703 operator. The boss is already out flying and a last minute charter request comes in on your day off. Either you do it or the flight goes unflown.

Whatever you decide is up to you, but your pie that you're negotiating to get a piece of is going to be a lot smaller if the operator is consistently cancelling flights. (Yes they could hire more pilots, but that leaves you in a worse position too because you have to split pie with more people.)

[Meatservo]

The thing is that you likely won't get a proper raise working yourself to death either. It's one of the causes of the 'movement'.

And in aviation most pilots are stuck in pay scales anyway, so no need to work yourself to death there either.

True for us flying for large carriers, but not everyone is our position. Let's say you're working for a 703 operator. The boss is already out flying and a last minute charter request comes in on your day off. Either you do it or the flight goes unflown.

Whatever you decide is up to you, but your pie that you're negotiating to get a piece of is going to be a lot smaller if the operator is consistently cancelling flights. (Yes they could hire more pilots, but that leaves you in a worse position too because you have to split pie with more people.)

You just said "a last minute charter". So that's NOT "cancelling" a flight. It wasn't on the schedule in the first place.

I don't know about you, but I am constantly having to arrange my affairs in such a way as to take advantage of various services being available when the employees are at work, and not available when the employees are on their day off. Such as the liquor store. The bank. The equipment rental place. The veterinarian. The lawyer. The grocery store. Restaurants. The contractor who fixes roofs. The city planning department. The truck that empties the septic tank. The lumber yard. Starbuck's. The gas station. Shall I continue?

So, a call comes in on your day off. You're on your fucking day off, man. You say the boss is flying? Well, I guess when he lands, he'll find out he has another flight. This concept was a lot easier to drum into an employer's head before they invented cellphones.

[rookiepilot]

Everyone good if these guys do it? Or for RAIC’s? Or TC? Curious.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6565059

[digits_]

Everyone good if these guys do it? Or for RAIC’s? Or TC? Curious.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6565059

Of course.

[Bede]

Meatservo,
I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't fly in your days off. After all, I tend not too fly in days off as my time is more valuable than money. I'm just saying that you're in a better negotiating position if the company makes more money.

[schnitzel2k3]

The thing is that you likely won't get a proper raise working yourself to death either. It's one of the causes of the 'movement'.

And in aviation most pilots are stuck in pay scales anyway, so no need to work yourself to death there either.

True for us flying for large carriers, but not everyone is our position. Let's say you're working for a 703 operator. The boss is already out flying and a last minute charter request comes in on your day off. Either you do it or the flight goes unflown.

Sorry Bede, this is where you lost me. A 703 with days off beyond legal and a choice to fly?

What is this fantasy you live in.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

The thing is that you likely won't get a proper raise working yourself to death either. It's one of the causes of the 'movement'.

And in aviation most pilots are stuck in pay scales anyway, so no need to work yourself to death there either.

True for us flying for large carriers, but not everyone is our position. Let's say you're working for a 703 operator. The boss is already out flying and a last minute charter request comes in on your day off. Either you do it or the flight goes unflown.

Sorry Bede, this is where you lost me. A 703 with days off beyond legal and a choice to fly?

What is this fantasy you live in.

The pig fu**er operators that do this are more common than not these days from what I’m seeing.

[JHR]

Not one bit of currency ever bought a single measurement of time. Or something like that. Quote from Tony Stark Avengers Endgame. Man, I love that movie. If you didn't cry when Tony died, you have no soul.

Work sucks. My passions are not flying. I hunt. I fish. I trap. I have a hobby farm. If I didn't have to work, I wouldn't. Pilots seem to be one of the worst for this. No life outside work. Sad.

I think corporate pilots have it the worst. 2 hour callouts and on call majority of their lives. I hated working that nonsense

I guess you worked for the wrong company. I have been corporate for 23years and had the pleasure of raising three kids. Never missed a field trip. Got to the point where i was told to stay home and give other parents a chance

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Not one bit of currency ever bought a single measurement of time. Or something like that. Quote from Tony Stark Avengers Endgame. Man, I love that movie. If you didn't cry when Tony died, you have no soul.

Work sucks. My passions are not flying. I hunt. I fish. I trap. I have a hobby farm. If I didn't have to work, I wouldn't. Pilots seem to be one of the worst for this. No life outside work. Sad.

I think corporate pilots have it the worst. 2 hour callouts and on call majority of their lives. I hated working that nonsense

I guess you worked for the wrong company. I have been corporate for 23years and had the pleasure of raising three kids. Never missed a field trip. Got to the point where i was told to stay home and give other parents a chance

Let me rephrase that “corporate management pilots”

[Meatservo]

Meatservo,
I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't fly in your days off. After all, I tend not too fly in days off as my time is more valuable than money. I'm just saying that you're in a better negotiating position if the company makes more money.

I don't think I missed your point. I just think that making a charitable donation of your time to the company is a waste of goodwill and a waste of time. I used to work for a company that, during the time I was there went from a little 703/704 outfit to quite a large 705 one. I always tried to be agreeable and would generally donate days off if they asked, as long as I wasn't missing a doctors appointment or something. They just grew to count on it and suddenly I was the company goat, just for wanting some time off.

[Meatservo]

Meatservo,
I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't fly in your days off. After all, I tend not too fly in days off as my time is more valuable than money. I'm just saying that you're in a better negotiating position if the company makes more money.

I don't think I missed your point. I just think that making a charitable donation of your time to the company is a waste of goodwill and a waste of time. I used to work for a company that, during the time I was there went from a little 703/704 outfit to quite a large 705 one. I always tried to be agreeable and would generally donate days off if they asked, as long as I wasn't missing a doctors appointment or something. They just grew to count on it and suddenly I was the company goat, just for wanting some time off. I didn't get any more pay rises or opportunities than the guys who said "no". I wasn't even better liked. Far from it. I was treated with contempt. It's precisely why I'm a bit tickled by this whole "silent quitting" thing

[rookiepilot]

I think it will go far beyond silent quitting.

I think there is tremendous anger — even in Canada — at the long term destruction of the middle class in favour of an ever - growing Elite Ruling class, sucking on the government teat.

I think we will have not only widespread strikes, official and unofficial, but significant future civil unrest. Even in Canada, which has been unheard of.

I blame governments , far more then predatory employers. Governments is far too large, far too fat, and entitlements grossly overdone. Everyone pays for this. There are oceans of bureaucracy, all making 100-200K a year. All while doing everything possible (in Canada) to make it hard to do business in the first place. “No business case for LNG”. WTF?

Trudeau (as a representative of the Elites) reminds me a lot of one of my extended family members. He pushes and provokes, and seems genuinely shocked when his targets finally lose their temper.

[linecrew]

On the flip side, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. Not sure why people do jobs they don't like. Lots of Money isnt worth the misery.

People work to live, not the other way around. If you have a good work life balance then supporting you non-work life may result in a mediocre job but one that pays well. Not everyone has the luxury of finding work in the field they love that adequately supports their non-working life.

Of course there are those kinds of people that live to work, however, if you ask people if they would rather NOT have to work for a living the vast majority will tell that they would not, of course, which is why we eventually retire (if you can).

[linecrew]

double post

[Bueno74]

I think corporate pilots have it the worst. 2 hour callouts and on call majority of their lives. I hated working that nonsense
[/quote]

I wasn’t even on a 2 hour call-out, and I still couldn’t picture myself raising a family with zero guaranteed days off and no schedule. Others have alluded to this before, but at minimum managed airplanes need 3 pilots - 4 would be ideal for proper schedule, vacation, training and sick day coverage.

With 2 pilots you find out about your days off after they’ve already happened, struggle to get vacation approved until the last minute and feel pressured not to take a sick day because there’s nobody to cover.

The always on call culture is so engrained in these companies and until that changes, good luck attracting qualified candidates. Especially when there is no compensation for extra flying.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

I think corporate pilots have it the worst. 2 hour callouts and on call majority of their lives. I hated working that nonsense

I wasn’t even on a 2 hour call-out, and I still couldn’t picture myself raising a family with zero guaranteed days off and no schedule. Others have alluded to this before, but at minimum managed airplanes need 3 pilots - 4 would be ideal for proper schedule, vacation, training and sick day coverage.

With 2 pilots you find out about your days off after they’ve already happened, struggle to get vacation approved until the last minute and feel pressured not to take a sick day because there’s nobody to cover.

The always on call culture is so engrained in these companies and until that changes, good luck attracting qualified candidates. Especially when there is no compensation for extra flying.
[/quote]




It is bad, personally it just about killed my marriage. Management companies only care about one thing, money. EVERYONE is replaceable especially in managed aviation.