How backed up is hiring???

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doiwannabeapilot
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by doiwannabeapilot »

RRJetPilot wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:59 pm 75k a year for skytrain attendant. That’s how much you are valued.
https://www.translink.ca/careers
But do they have flow ?
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doiwannabeapilot
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by doiwannabeapilot »

negative_g wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:45 am
co-joe wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:33 pm
canadian_aviator_4 wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:06 pm

Jazz FO take home pay is just over $1000 (after tax and deductions) biweekly. So hopefully it’s better than that. 🤞
Funny you should say that, I heard your first pay cheque at AC is around $800 take home. I'm sure you have no pre-diem yet, and lots of deductions to start with.
Not even close. It's still shit but not that shit.
C'mon for @#$@$ sakes. why the fake news / rumours/ bs on this site. What is the take home then. Can't someone post factual information.
Might as well watch a Mello video.
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pirep
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by pirep »

doiwannabeapilot wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:48 pm
RRJetPilot wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:59 pm 75k a year for skytrain attendant. That’s how much you are valued.
https://www.translink.ca/careers
But do they have flow ?
Yeah, you could flow to the Seabus.
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canadian_aviator_4
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by canadian_aviator_4 »

doiwannabeapilot wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:51 pm
negative_g wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:45 am
co-joe wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:33 pm

Funny you should say that, I heard your first pay cheque at AC is around $800 take home. I'm sure you have no pre-diem yet, and lots of deductions to start with.
Not even close. It's still shit but not that shit.

C'mon for @#$@$ sakes. why the fake news / rumours/ bs on this site. What is the take home then. Can't someone post factual information.
Might as well watch a Mello video.
Just over $1000 before perdiem and OT is the actual take home. That is why jazz has so many angry FOs. The reason why it’s so low, besides the pay scale, is the insane amount of deductions at the company. Health plan is the most expensive I have ever seen, and it’s extremely difficult to get off of, short and long term disability both expensive and non negotiable items, union dues, and then on top of that you have the government’s cut as well. So most guys have close to %50 in deductions. No BS.
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the-minister31
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by the-minister31 »

canadian_aviator_4 wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:25 pm
Just over $1000 before perdiem and OT is the actual take home. That is why jazz has so many angry FOs. The reason why it’s so low, besides the pay scale, is the insane amount of deductions at the company. Health plan is the most expensive I have ever seen, and it’s extremely difficult to get off of, short and long term disability both expensive and non negotiable items, union dues, and then on top of that you have the government’s cut as well. So most guys have close to %50 in deductions. No BS.
I think he was refering to the AC pay, but thank you for the factual information
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rudder
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by rudder »

KenoraPilot wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:10 am 12 in Sept 19 I believe
Oct 31 will be next GS for Jazz
So from Aug 29 until Oct 31 (9 weeks) Jazz will have hired approximately 51 pilots (19/12/20). Meanwhile, AC is hiring 40 pilots every 2 weeks (so nearly 160 over same time frame). 96+ should come from Jazz (but will not).

What is the problem at Jazz? I have heard lack of instructor resources.

Hiring and training is a planning exercise. Is there a problem at the planning level?

I doubt this deficiency is sustainable.
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Transition9er2
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by Transition9er2 »

rudder wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:03 am
KenoraPilot wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:10 am 12 in Sept 19 I believe
Oct 31 will be next GS for Jazz
So from Aug 29 until Oct 31 (9 weeks) Jazz will have hired approximately 51 pilots (19/12/20). Meanwhile, AC is hiring 40 pilots every 2 weeks (so nearly 160 over same time frame). 96+ should come from Jazz (but will not).

What is the problem at Jazz? I have heard lack of instructor resources.

Hiring and training is a planning exercise. Is there a problem at the planning level?

I doubt this deficiency is sustainable.
AC isn’t hiring 40 every class. I don’t think they’ve managed a class of 40 all year.

Latest PIT that just finished week 1 has 29. Last PIT class had 32.

Everyone is told there’s a stack of resumes and there’s no shortage of applicants… yet I don’t think jazz or AC has managed to fill a single class to expectations all year.

Could be wrong, but I doubt it.
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negative_g
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by negative_g »

Not only are they not filling classes, a lot of the pilots they are hiring recently, and nothing against them they're more than qualified it just speaks to the so called resume stack and compared to recent historical trends, are coming from 703 and 704/705 combination ops like Pasco. A big difference from just two years ago. And there's also apparently been a number of no shows day one too.
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ellinas
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by ellinas »

Transition9er2 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:17 pm
rudder wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:03 am
KenoraPilot wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:10 am 12 in Sept 19 I believe
Oct 31 will be next GS for Jazz
So from Aug 29 until Oct 31 (9 weeks) Jazz will have hired approximately 51 pilots (19/12/20). Meanwhile, AC is hiring 40 pilots every 2 weeks (so nearly 160 over same time frame). 96+ should come from Jazz (but will not).

What is the problem at Jazz? I have heard lack of instructor resources.

Hiring and training is a planning exercise. Is there a problem at the planning level?

I doubt this deficiency is sustainable.
AC isn’t hiring 40 every class. I don’t think they’ve managed a class of 40 all year.

Latest PIT that just finished week 1 has 29. Last PIT class had 32.

Everyone is told there’s a stack of resumes and there’s no shortage of applicants… yet I don’t think jazz or AC has managed to fill a single class to expectations all year.

Could be wrong, but I doubt it.
So a stack of resumes means no real shortage, just alot of hype shortage! Shortage! Sure and really are these guys at Jazz take home $1000 holy crap!!
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if you are on the ground I guess there is now way but to look up!
Jester123
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by Jester123 »

negative_g wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:32 pm Not only are they not filling classes, a lot of the pilots they are hiring recently, and nothing against them they're more than qualified it just speaks to the so called resume stack and compared to recent historical trends, are coming from 703 and 704/705 combination ops like Pasco. A big difference from just two years ago. And there's also apparently been a number of no shows day one too.
Are we talking AC here or Jazz?
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canadian_aviator_4
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by canadian_aviator_4 »

ellinas wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:47 pm
Transition9er2 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:17 pm
rudder wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:03 am

So from Aug 29 until Oct 31 (9 weeks) Jazz will have hired approximately 51 pilots (19/12/20). Meanwhile, AC is hiring 40 pilots every 2 weeks (so nearly 160 over same time frame). 96+ should come from Jazz (but will not).

What is the problem at Jazz? I have heard lack of instructor resources.

Hiring and training is a planning exercise. Is there a problem at the planning level?

I doubt this deficiency is sustainable.
AC isn’t hiring 40 every class. I don’t think they’ve managed a class of 40 all year.

Latest PIT that just finished week 1 has 29. Last PIT class had 32.

Everyone is told there’s a stack of resumes and there’s no shortage of applicants… yet I don’t think jazz or AC has managed to fill a single class to expectations all year.

Could be wrong, but I doubt it.
So a stack of resumes means no real shortage, just alot of hype shortage! Shortage! Sure and really are these guys at Jazz take home $1000 holy crap!!
~$1000 biweekly after all deductions, excluding Per diem and OT pay.
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negative_g
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by negative_g »

Jester123 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 8:15 pm
negative_g wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:32 pm Not only are they not filling classes, a lot of the pilots they are hiring recently, and nothing against them they're more than qualified it just speaks to the so called resume stack and compared to recent historical trends, are coming from 703 and 704/705 combination ops like Pasco. A big difference from just two years ago. And there's also apparently been a number of no shows day one too.
Are we talking AC here or Jazz?
AC. I was replying to the post above mine referencing AC pit class.
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Aspiredtofly
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by Aspiredtofly »

Overtime and spending time away from home in the hotel for perdiems is the only way to survive at jazz after all those deductions. It's best to start young if this is where the industry is going
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canadian_aviator_4
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by canadian_aviator_4 »

Aspiredtofly wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:06 am Overtime and spending time away from home in the hotel for perdiems is the only way to survive at jazz after all those deductions. It's best to start young if this is where the industry is going
Senior pilots talk about buying their next 80k vehicle or a new property they are looking to buy, and you silently scream that you cannot even afford to go out for dinner on the overnight. Extremely large pay disparity, outside of the pay scale alone making unity difficult to believe.
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rudder
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by rudder »

canadian_aviator_4 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:38 pm
~$1000 biweekly after all deductions, excluding Per diem and OT pay.
That number is pathetic. For most (but not all) Part 705 carriers, current starting pay is an embarrassment.

I am not sure why an employer would wear that as a badge of honour.

Market forces. Seller’s market. Parked airplanes and cancelled flights is not a credible business plan.

Empty seats on PIT courses is just a symptom. For other carriers, the stack of resignations is another symptom.

Grab a chair and some popcorn. This is going to be an entertaining. Those trapped in an outdated paradigm will meet the same fate as the proverbial frog in a pot of boiling water.
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Kosiw
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by Kosiw »

I'm starting to wonder if the majority of the airline company's in Canada are going to try and wait out the current shortage, hoping that a recession in '23 will buy them time and not have to deal with the wage question.
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ellinas
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by ellinas »

rudder wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:37 am
canadian_aviator_4 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:38 pm
~$1000 biweekly after all deductions, excluding Per diem and OT pay.
That number is pathetic. For most (but not all) Part 705 carriers, current starting pay is an embarrassment.

I am not sure why an employer would wear that as a badge of honour.

Market forces. Seller’s market. Parked airplanes and cancelled flights is not a credible business plan.

Empty seats on PIT courses is just a symptom. For other carriers, the stack of resignations is another symptom.

Grab a chair and some popcorn. This is going to be an entertaining. Those trapped in an outdated paradigm will meet the same fate as the proverbial frog in a pot of boiling water.
Are you saying they can’t fill ground school classes and pilots are not showing up for their dream flying gig?
I’m confused ? Is there a shortage of pilots or a shortage of experienced pilots ? Do we have enough 500 hour waannabees?
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if you are on the ground I guess there is now way but to look up!
rudder
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by rudder »

ellinas wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:13 am
Are you saying they can’t fill ground school classes and pilots are not showing up for their dream flying gig?
I’m confused ? Is there a shortage of pilots or a shortage of experienced pilots ? Do we have enough 500 hour waannabees?
An airline cannot sustain growth and/or attrition when the staffing plan is comprised of a disproportionate number of ab initio new hires.

Just ask Jazz how that model is working. The seeds weren’t sowed yesterday. They were sowed prior to COVID.

Jazz should only be hiring ATPL. Starting pay minimum $65k. Upgrade available by first recurrent PPC. Starting CA pay minimum $95k.

p.s. AC starting pay should be minimum $90k. Second year pay on formula.
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TheStig
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by TheStig »

rudder wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:19 am
Jazz should only be hiring ATPL. Starting pay minimum $65k. Upgrade available by first recurrent PPC. Starting CA pay minimum $95k.

p.s. AC starting pay should be minimum $90k. Second year pay on formula.
The Director of Flight Operations needs to be able to make this case to those above them in the AC hierarchy (and their are quite a few), that in order to sustain operations pay needs to improve to attract qualified applicants.

Pilots in Canada are on the cusp to a long overdue pay raise. Hopefully ACPA and ALPA hold their ground and their isn’t a airline bankruptcy in the near term to change that drastically changes the ‘supply’ side of things.
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rudder
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Re: How backed up is hiring???

Post by rudder »

TheStig wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:26 am
rudder wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:19 am
Jazz should only be hiring ATPL. Starting pay minimum $65k. Upgrade available by first recurrent PPC. Starting CA pay minimum $95k.

p.s. AC starting pay should be minimum $90k. Second year pay on formula.
The Director of Flight Operations needs to be able to make this case to those above them in the AC hierarchy (and their are quite a few), that in order to sustain operations pay needs to improve to attract qualified applicants.

Pilots in Canada are on the cusp to a long overdue pay raise. Hopefully ACPA and ALPA hold their ground and their isn’t a airline bankruptcy in the near term to change that drastically changes the ‘supply’ side of things.
ACPA (AC) and ALPA (Jazz) should be working together to coordinate agendas and maximize outcome.

A ‘No’ and a ‘No’ will always yield a better ultimate result than a No/Yes or Yes/No combination.

Divide and conquer has been the playbook for the last 4 decades. Pilot labour should know better than to fall in to old traps.

For clarity and perhaps in order to focus attention - every top scale US regional CA is making more than every top scale NB CA in Canada (on a currency adjusted basis). It would still be the case even if the exchange rate was at 0.90 (today is 0.75).

US NB CA rates of US$320+/hr are coming. That is almost C$430/hr. And a retirement benefit that makes the best deal in Canada look like crap.
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