Jazz Approach state

[nutlord]

Yes the first class started in Kingston and i am not in it. Anyone shed a light on whether i should continue to wait the call or bug recruitment? Do i stand a chance? So by your observations, three cadets dropped out. Why might that be?

I wouldn't waste the $200,000 it's going to cost you to finish this program. Better off going to Harv Air, finish your licences there in 12 months if you go at if full time for less than half the money and don't pay for your own PPC. Find yourself a better paying job elsewhere. I don't know how anyone plans to service their $200,000 student debt making $2200 a month.

My guess is that most people in this program are paying for it with cash, or their parents are doing so. Student debts and low starting salary aren't an issue if you have the support of your parents, or are somehow independently wealthy.

[RoAF-Mig21]

My guess is that most people in this program are paying for it with cash, or their parents are doing so. Student debts and low starting salary aren't an issue if you have the support of your parents, or are somehow independently wealthy.

Indeed. My number one goal is to see my child go to school for "free". In other terms, I will pay 100% of the tuition. I don't want my kid to go through what I did, having to work full time and pay my flight school. I sacrificed some of the best years of my life chasing my dream.

[HappySkies777]

Please for GOD's sake don't sign up for this program!!! I have funded my own flight training from day one working McDonald's, ramp, fueling jobs and a corporate job as an Engineer because I went and got a degree. Go to a flight school and pay for your flying "Pay As You Go" OR if you have money saved join a professional program like Seneca College or others and you will come off ahead financially! When you are done, go get a job for a year which will teach you tons. You will feel more comfortable in your first 705 (airline) gig, make you appreciate what you earned and finally you will earn the respect of others. My first job was flying the arctic for couple years. This baby step in your flying career is priceless. Jumping into an airline environment as a first job is a stretch (not impossible), but its a lot to take in, and let alone a jet on top of that!

P.s: I work at Jazz and as people mentioned before, your first year or frankly couple of years won't break even with your salary to pay an almost quarter million for a CRJ200 type!!!! Also, paying for a type rating is derogatory to the standard of this industry....and yeah you are paying for it as far as I understand!!

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Looks like the Jazz Approach program is starting up:


IMG_2998.PNG

Where did you get that add from, if you don't mind me asking?

The Jazz Chief Pilot linked the ad to her LinkedIn profile.

[RoAF-Mig21]

The Jazz Chief Pilot linked the ad to her LinkedIn profile.

Okay thanks for that. I don't have LinkedIn, so that's why I didn't see it anywhere, even though I was trying to find it on their website.

[flytobe123]

Please for GOD's sake don't sign up for this program!!! I have funded my own flight training from day one working McDonald's, ramp, fueling jobs and a corporate job as an Engineer because I went and got a degree. Go to a flight school and pay for your flying "Pay As You Go" OR if you have money saved join a professional program like Seneca College or others and you will come off ahead financially! When you are done, go get a job for a year which will teach you tons. You will feel more comfortable in your first 705 (airline) gig, make you appreciate what you earned and finally you will earn the respect of others. My first job was flying the arctic for couple years. This baby step in your flying career is priceless. Jumping into an airline environment as a first job is a stretch (not impossible), but its a lot to take in, and let alone a jet on top of that!

P.s: I work at Jazz and as people mentioned before, your first year or frankly couple of years won't break even with your salary to pay an almost quarter million for a CRJ200 type!!!! Also, paying for a type rating is derogatory to the standard of this industry....and yeah you are paying for it as far as I understand!!

--------
VERY FUNNY, SAD BUT TRUE.
Cadet program in France is free and you go straight to Airbus A320.
I have the feeling we are copying US but this is a very different context and country.

[Babar350]

Please for GOD's sake don't sign up for this program!!! I have funded my own flight training from day one working McDonald's, ramp, fueling jobs and a corporate job as an Engineer because I went and got a degree. Go to a flight school and pay for your flying "Pay As You Go" OR if you have money saved join a professional program like Seneca College or others and you will come off ahead financially! When you are done, go get a job for a year which will teach you tons. You will feel more comfortable in your first 705 (airline) gig, make you appreciate what you earned and finally you will earn the respect of others. My first job was flying the arctic for couple years. This baby step in your flying career is priceless. Jumping into an airline environment as a first job is a stretch (not impossible), but its a lot to take in, and let alone a jet on top of that!

P.s: I work at Jazz and as people mentioned before, your first year or frankly couple of years won't break even with your salary to pay an almost quarter million for a CRJ200 type!!!! Also, paying for a type rating is derogatory to the standard of this industry....and yeah you are paying for it as far as I understand!!

--------
VERY FUNNY, SAD BUT TRUE.
Cadet program in France is free and you go straight to Airbus A320.
I have the feeling we are copying US but this is a very different context and country.

Yeah well oui et non...
Most of the cadets in France are going to Easyjet or AF or Ryanair but not 100% of them.
Some are instructing, others are going to Africa with Aviation sans frontières.

[flytobe123]

Please for GOD's sake don't sign up for this program!!! I have funded my own flight training from day one working McDonald's, ramp, fueling jobs and a corporate job as an Engineer because I went and got a degree. Go to a flight school and pay for your flying "Pay As You Go" OR if you have money saved join a professional program like Seneca College or others and you will come off ahead financially! When you are done, go get a job for a year which will teach you tons. You will feel more comfortable in your first 705 (airline) gig, make you appreciate what you earned and finally you will earn the respect of others. My first job was flying the arctic for couple years. This baby step in your flying career is priceless. Jumping into an airline environment as a first job is a stretch (not impossible), but its a lot to take in, and let alone a jet on top of that!

P.s: I work at Jazz and as people mentioned before, your first year or frankly couple of years won't break even with your salary to pay an almost quarter million for a CRJ200 type!!!! Also, paying for a type rating is derogatory to the standard of this industry....and yeah you are paying for it as far as I understand!!

--------
VERY FUNNY, SAD BUT TRUE.
Cadet program in France is free and you go straight to Airbus A320.
I have the feeling we are copying US but this is a very different context and country.

Yeah well oui et non...
Most of the cadets in France are going to Easyjet or AF or Ryanair but not 100% of them.
Some are instructing, others are going to Africa with Aviation sans frontières.

---
I was referring AF Cadets and/or ENAC school

[RoAF-Mig21]

...Cadet program in France is free and you go straight to Airbus A320..

Two things there:
1. Competition is fierce, and rightfully so, since they're paying the whole bill.

2. Air France knows that once those pilots get hired, they'll stay till retirement. I doubt too many AF pilots will move to other French carriers, like FrenchBee or Corsair...

You can't compare a Canadian regional airline with the national carrier of France. Two different continents, countries, airlines, cultures and operations.

[truedude]

...Cadet program in France is free and you go straight to Airbus A320..

Two things there:
1. Competition is fierce, and rightfully so, since they're paying the whole bill.

2. Air France knows that once those pilots get hired, they'll stay till retirement. I doubt too many AF pilots will move to other French carriers, like FrenchBee or Corsair...

You can't compare a Canadian regional airline with the national carrier of France. Two different continents, countries, airlines, cultures and operations.

And this program is just pathetic. It won't solve a thing. It is just another sad attempt my management to keep pay low.

[RoAF-Mig21]

Does CAE / Jazz have a place in Kingston (at YGK) where this will take place? When will this program start? Will it be run by CAE instructors or Jazz?

[GIVCE!]

This whole thing, and the sneaky silence of it all, just feels like a big F U to the pilotsand ALPA from management. If we can’t get pilots from colleges and flight schools? Hell, we’ll start our own school, charge ludicrous amounts of money for it, trap non-upgradable FO’s to a life of servitude for many years after, use out-sourced, cheaper, possibly inferior instructors to do it all while leaving the union and it’s members on the outside looking in saying, wtf. The volume will never meet the requirements of future hiring, so why even bother? As if this solves anything except adding another layer of bureaucracy to the Chorus portfolio. I wonder how much the CFI or the person in charge of this program is going to be paid? You can bet it’s more than a first year fo, or Capt for that matter. Just another show of non support for the in house talent that already exists here and continues to leave BY THE HUNDREDS mainly due to the lack of competitive wages. But hey, it’s AC fault right for repatriating flying and sucking up all the pilots they need, when they see fit. This place is shrinking faster than the cohones on a small boy swimming in the North Atlantic. Not much future to look forward to atm, hence the mass exedus. All the effort previously put into recruitment programs through colleges and flight schools and still no permanent solution to the in house PICuS problems or fixing the wages to RETAIN the pilots that do come to Jazz. Instead another stupid corporate experiment. I’ll bet the Trudeau government is even kicking in the start up funds under some ‘hire Canadian’ banner. Such BS. Tax payers would love to learn that I’ll bet, tell the people that got shafted over the Xmas break that now THEY are paying for the pilots to learn to fly so they can get to Cuba for $50. See how that floats…prove to me that Chorus is fully funding this, and if they are, disgusting. Money should be going to CURRENT PILOT WAGES. imo, the union should be all over this.
Fin.

[rudder]

This whole thing, and the sneaky silence of it all, just feels like a big F U to the pilotsand ALPA from management. If we can’t get pilots from colleges and flight schools? Hell, we’ll start our own school, charge ludicrous amounts of money for it, trap non-upgradable FO’s to a life of servitude for many years after, use out-sourced, cheaper, possibly inferior instructors to do it all while leaving the union and it’s members on the outside looking in saying, wtf. The volume will never meet the requirements of future hiring, so why even bother? As if this solves anything except adding another layer of bureaucracy to the Chorus portfolio. I wonder how much the CFI or the person in charge of this program is going to be paid? You can bet it’s more than a first year fo, or Capt for that matter. Just another show of non support for the in house talent that already exists here and continues to leave BY THE HUNDREDS mainly due to the lack of competitive wages. But hey, it’s AC fault right for repatriating flying and sucking up all the pilots they need, when they see fit. This place is shrinking faster than the cohones on a small boy swimming in the North Atlantic. Not much future to look forward to atm, hence the mass exedus. All the effort previously put into recruitment programs through colleges and flight schools and still no permanent solution to the in house PICuS problems or fixing the wages to RETAIN the pilots that do come to Jazz. Instead another stupid corporate experiment. I’ll bet the Trudeau government is even kicking in the start up funds under some ‘hire Canadian’ banner. Such BS. Tax payers would love to learn that I’ll bet, tell the people that got shafted over the Xmas break that now THEY are paying for the pilots to learn to fly so they can get to Cuba for $50. See how that floats…prove to me that Chorus is fully funding this, and if they are, disgusting. Money should be going to CURRENT PILOT WAGES. imo, the union should be all over this.
Fin.

et caveat emptor

[truedude]

It is sad, and pathetic. It just shows the absolute level of contempt management holds for the pilot group. But we can fight back against it by remaining unified behind our union, and known that we will not accept anything less than a radical redress of the our current working conditions. F/O's star at $65, Captains at $100, and top out at $200. Company pays a 100% of our benefits. Anything short of that, we don't even show up to talk to the company.

And until that day, we continue to work under the terms of our current contract, that will continue to see us bleed pilots, unable to hire new ones. We remind the company as frequently as possible that this is the contract that they wanted. And we make it be known we will see this through to the very end, regardless of what the end might be; either higher pay for us, or they decide to shut the company down.

The union can't tell us to not work overtime, or any other work to rule type measures. But they don't need to. As I quoted in other places, "They used to enjoy my maximum, now they will suffer my minimum... I am an army of one, or two, or three hundred."

That being said, no one should be shamed for working overtime, as it is a legal part of our contract. And if that is what you have to do to feed yourself or you family, or because you want to go skiing to stay sane, then by all means.

They are showing extreme stubbornness, we just need to let it be known that we can be stubborn too, and for much longer. Because in the end, pilots in Canada now have options, and they need to start accepting and dealing with that reality.

[hithere]

It is sad, and pathetic. It just shows the absolute level of contempt management holds for the pilot group. But we can fight back against it by remaining unified behind our union, and known that we will not accept anything less than a radical redress of the our current working conditions. F/O's star at $65, Captains at $100, and top out at $200. Company pays a 100% of our benefits. Anything short of that, we don't even show up to talk to the company.

And until that day, we continue to work under the terms of our current contract, that will continue to see us bleed pilots, unable to hire new ones. We remind the company as frequently as possible that this is the contract that they wanted. And we make it be known we will see this through to the very end, regardless of what the end might be; either higher pay for us, or they decide to shut the company down.

The union can't tell us to not work overtime, or any other work to rule type measures. But they don't need to. As I quoted in other places, "They used to enjoy my maximum, now they will suffer my minimum... I am an army of one, or two, or three hundred."

That being said, no one should be shamed for working overtime, as it is a legal part of our contract. And if that is what you have to do to feed yourself or you family, or because you want to go skiing to stay sane, then by all means.

They are showing extreme stubbornness, we just need to let it be known that we can be stubborn too, and for much longer. Because in the end, pilots in Canada now have options, and they need to start accepting and dealing with that reality.

Best post I've come across in a long time

[CaptDukeNukem]

It is sad, and pathetic. It just shows the absolute level of contempt management holds for the pilot group. But we can fight back against it by remaining unified behind our union, and known that we will not accept anything less than a radical redress of the our current working conditions. F/O's star at $65, Captains at $100, and top out at $200. Company pays a 100% of our benefits. Anything short of that, we don't even show up to talk to the company.

And until that day, we continue to work under the terms of our current contract, that will continue to see us bleed pilots, unable to hire new ones. We remind the company as frequently as possible that this is the contract that they wanted. And we make it be known we will see this through to the very end, regardless of what the end might be; either higher pay for us, or they decide to shut the company down.

The union can't tell us to not work overtime, or any other work to rule type measures. But they don't need to. As I quoted in other places, "They used to enjoy my maximum, now they will suffer my minimum... I am an army of one, or two, or three hundred."

That being said, no one should be shamed for working overtime, as it is a legal part of our contract. And if that is what you have to do to feed yourself or you family, or because you want to go skiing to stay sane, then by all means.

They are showing extreme stubbornness, we just need to let it be known that we can be stubborn too, and for much longer. Because in the end, pilots in Canada now have options, and they need to start accepting and dealing with that reality.

This is absolutely the right approach. Stay strong, do the minimum you are required to do, stay legal and most importantly… stay in solidarity.

[cykj]

Does CAE / Jazz have a place in Kingston (at YGK) where this will take place? When will this program start? Will it be run by CAE instructors or Jazz?

Cygnet Aviation Academy. They were hiring instructors on indeed.ca a couple of months ago. You might recognize the corporation directors.

https://opengovca.com/corporation/13482952

[GIVCE!]

Looks like they own a DA42 … things are sure coming together…lol

[RoAF-Mig21]

Does CAE / Jazz have a place in Kingston (at YGK) where this will take place? When will this program start? Will it be run by CAE instructors or Jazz?

Cygnet Aviation Academy. They were hiring instructors on indeed.ca a couple of months ago. You might recognize the corporation directors.

https://opengovca.com/corporation/13482952

Indeed. Thank you for that info / link.

[cdnavater]

Does CAE / Jazz have a place in Kingston (at YGK) where this will take place? When will this program start? Will it be run by CAE instructors or Jazz?

Cygnet Aviation Academy. They were hiring instructors on indeed.ca a couple of months ago. You might recognize the corporation directors.

https://opengovca.com/corporation/13482952

Oh, I’m sure their duties are included in the already over inflated salaries, wait I guess Joe needs a retirement gig, since his “pension” might not pay the bills