ACPA LOA?

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Rooster69
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by Rooster69 »

FatPilot wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:25 am I hope EVERY pilot goes to the road show. Find a way to send a message.
God , I hope so. I am not expecting a large turnout. Most can’t be bothered.
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airway
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by airway »

Cumulative inflation in Canada:

1980 - 241%
1990 - 94%
2000 - 59%
2010 - 31%
2015 - 20%
2019 - 12%

https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/relat ... alculator/

The 1980 figure was shocking.
No need to compare ourselves to US pilots. Most Canadian airline pilot wages are so far behind these numbers it is ridiculous.






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QKZXKV
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by QKZXKV »

The US carriers are also very open about sharing their MOA/MOS or whatever you want to call it. Alaska shared theirs recently. Young whippersnappers who are on flat pay, take a look at what the US version of WestJet is going to get paid/retro-paid... Old guys who this doesn't affect, pls keep your opinions to yourself unless asked and let the younger group decide what's best (this ain't it).

Also, ALPA Canada is not the answer to every problem. The rot runs deep there too!
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hithere
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by hithere »

QKZXKV wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:30 am The US carriers are also very open about sharing their MOA/MOS or whatever you want to call it. Alaska shared theirs recently. Young whippersnappers who are on flat pay, take a look at what the US version of WestJet is going to get paid/retro-paid... Old guys who this doesn't affect, pls keep your opinions to yourself unless asked and let the younger group decide what's best (this ain't it).

Also, ALPA Canada is not the answer to every problem. The rot runs deep there too!
The 17 year deal at Jazz that you are sh!!ting on included a 60% flow and a max 10% PFO rate. Prior to that Jazz people were PFO’d at a much higher rate. The JAZ MEC used bargaining capital to increase flow that you have clearly used to make it to the NHL. So you might want to thank the ALPA Canada MEC of Jazz that you were part of instead of making stupid accusations. You are welcome.
Have you considered the irony that in the same week(like two days apart) WestJet mainline pilots voted unanimously to cancel the PTA(current Encore Pilots grandfathered) to force the company to raise salary at Encore(because why the hell would you go to Encore unless you got a mainline number) and recognize one MEC for both Encore and mainline, meanwhile ACPA sends a deal to the members to ratify that will ensure Jazz pay rates remain depressed?
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FL030
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by FL030 »

I can't watch anymore. They keep calling it "big gains".
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Dias
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by Dias »

They really think this MOA improves our bargaining position for 2023. It does the exact opposite. It allows them to attract pilots as cheaply as possible, without raising wages across the board. This is the best leverage we'll ever have and they want us give it up for some magic beans.
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Jimmy_Hoffa
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by Jimmy_Hoffa »

FL030 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:52 am I can't watch anymore. They keep calling it "big gains".
I love how they keep pushing the 2% pay increase in April still being included as part of the ‘gains.’

It’s embarrassing they think like this.

-Jimmy
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Loon-A-Tic
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by Loon-A-Tic »

Jimmy_Hoffa wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:20 am
FL030 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:52 am I can't watch anymore. They keep calling it "big gains".
I love how they keep pushing the 2% pay increase in April still being included as part of the ‘gains.’

It’s embarrassing they think like this.

-Jimmy
So exactly what kind of "gains" where or are you expecting, what would be considered a reasonable gain at this point? It's never going to jump immediately to the remuneration being seen south of the 49th parallel.
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hithere
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by hithere »

Ask yourselves How would Keith D’Mello vote? And do the opposite
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nowind
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by nowind »

Dont get me wrong, Im a big no, but honnest question, if they dont come back to us what is gonna be our leverage next year and 2024. The hiring boom will be done at ac and we wont have much leverage left anyway.

Whats the plan to get real gains?
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BTD
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by BTD »

Loon-A-Tic wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:53 am
Jimmy_Hoffa wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:20 am
FL030 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:52 am I can't watch anymore. They keep calling it "big gains".
I love how they keep pushing the 2% pay increase in April still being included as part of the ‘gains.’

It’s embarrassing they think like this.

-Jimmy
So exactly what kind of "gains" where or are you expecting, what would be considered a reasonable gain at this point? It's never going to jump immediately to the remuneration being seen south of the 49th parallel.
Nobody said it had too.

Cargo wet lease. Fine remove 10% discount on 767. Ensure all future cargo ops are flown at the normal formula rate. Remove that weak language about the 77F.

Jazz flow through. Okay. Remove 4 year flat pay. After probation straight on to formula. Once the above is all taken care of, then raise all rates by 10%. And 5% a year until the end of the contract due to current inflation.

That’s a start, otherwise come back later when you have more to offer.

Been here 11 years. It’s garbage.

Last week, nobody was even thinking of this, and all of a sudden it’s panic mode.
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DanWEC
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by DanWEC »

I'm not an AC guy, when is this vote?
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negative_g
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by negative_g »

nowind wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:56 am Dont get me wrong, Im a big no, but honnest question, if they dont come back to us what is gonna be our leverage next year and 2024. The hiring boom will be done at ac and we wont have much leverage left anyway.

Whats the plan to get real gains?
Murray said they're planning to hire what, 2700 pilots by 2025? He let the cat out of the bag.

Good luck attracting quality pilots in that amount of numbers at the current starting AND formula pay. The company has no choice but to address compensation across the board and working conditions, and this was the first opportunity we had to do so. And what they presented is not enough in exchange for access to our seniority list. Our lifestyles at AC are terrible, and now they want us to fly more hours a year? Talk about a NC that is completely disconnected from reality and the members on the line. Not to mention the Jazz pilots and MEC is blindsided by this deal and we take away their leverage to extract gains. Lots of talk about unity, but that's all it is. I hope January when the MEC truly flips that things will change.

We need ALPA. We need it now. ACPA is died long ago.
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Aspiredtofly
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by Aspiredtofly »

hithere wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:55 am Ask yourselves How would Keith D’Mello vote? And do the opposite
What if he votes no?
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negative_g
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by negative_g »

BTD wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:01 pm
Loon-A-Tic wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:53 am
Jimmy_Hoffa wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:20 am

I love how they keep pushing the 2% pay increase in April still being included as part of the ‘gains.’

It’s embarrassing they think like this.

-Jimmy
So exactly what kind of "gains" where or are you expecting, what would be considered a reasonable gain at this point? It's never going to jump immediately to the remuneration being seen south of the 49th parallel.
Nobody said it had too.

Cargo wet lease. Fine remove 10% discount on 767. Ensure all future cargo ops are flown at the normal formula rate. Remove that weak language about the 77F.

Jazz flow through. Okay. Remove 4 year flat pay. After probation straight on to formula. Once the above is all taken care of, then raise all rates by 10%. And 5% a year until the end of the contract due to current inflation.

That’s a start, otherwise come back later when you have more to offer.

Been here 11 years. It’s garbage.

Last week, nobody was even thinking of this, and all of a sudden it’s panic mode.
And remove the transborder Scope nonsense and the increase in DBMs from the deal.

The corporation has known this was going to be an issue for a very long time, as usual they push it to the last minute and yell FIRE. They've had all spring and summer to come to the table with real offers to fix their issues and in classic Air Canada fashion they left it until the house is on fire. And expect the pilot group to jump when they say jump.

Do we really think FOPS is going to go to the board and say "well the pilots said no, we have to reduce our flying for next year". That person would find themselves jobless pretty quickly.
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Chips&Pops
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by Chips&Pops »

hithere wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:55 am Ask yourselves How would Keith D’Mello vote? And do the opposite
:prayer:
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Just giver bud
hithere
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by hithere »

Aspiredtofly wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:11 pm
hithere wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:55 am Ask yourselves How would Keith D’Mello vote? And do the opposite
What if he votes no?
I think we all know he will vote yes. Can’t have any instability in the social media world
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negative_g
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by negative_g »

hithere wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:16 pm
Aspiredtofly wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:11 pm
hithere wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:55 am Ask yourselves How would Keith D’Mello vote? And do the opposite
What if he votes no?
I think we all know he will vote yes. Can’t have any instability in the social media world
Can't wait for the new youtube video "HOW MUCH I MAKE AS A YEAR 3 AIR CANADA PILOT"
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bob99
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by bob99 »

hithere wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:55 am Ask yourselves How would Keith D’Mello vote? And do the opposite
He's a very vocal 'No.' So are you saying vote yes??
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hithere
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Re: ACPA LOA?

Post by hithere »

The guy is a mess so whatever. From what I reading here, If this deal is voted down it is not the Jazz flow piece that is the showstopper. However I implore you to understand that a rising tide floats all boats. You want to compare yourselves to the gains that have been made in the US. Surely you realize those gains have been made by working together with the various CPA carriers in the US? If you vote down this TA then it will make it difficult for AC to recruit pilots from both Jazz(because doing so will compromise the Jazz operations) and off the street(because flat pay sucks).
Don’t you get it? Vote this thing down and the ACPA MEC and Jazz MEC can work together to get something that benefits everyone by working together
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